Underused/rated units

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Wolfenguard
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
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Re: Underused/rated units

Post by Wolfenguard »

VirgilInTheSKY wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:35 pm
Grondel wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:21 pm
VirgilInTheSKY wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 12:50 am Multi-turret and multi-gun tanks should all get Rapid Fire 1.5x but have the status reduced, including T-28, Char B1, Char 2C and the M3 Grant/Lee to line up with the Neubaufahrzeug.
could u provide a list of all multi turret tanks that are in the game atm?

sers,
Thomas
T-28, Char B1, Char 2C, Neubaufahrzeug and Maus. Polish 7TPdwz also has 2 turrets but it already got Rapid Fire 1.5x as an MG tank. Interesting that we don't have T-35 for USSR.
from my view the Core Mechanic of PC2 is not suited for Multiturret (Weapons), the Rapidfire skill try to simulate this but in the end the most stuff is done with the different points in soft/hard attack.
If we install some additional MG´s on the Tank, with the PC2 Mechanic with rapid fire, we get the Bonus for attacking with the maingun too, or we change the Softattack with a stats bonus +x.
The Core Mechanic from W40K Armagedon, are more suitable for Multiturret/Weapon mechanic. Every Turret/Weapon in Range attack with their own Stats and Attacks. If you have a Lemun Russ with 2 Mainguns in the Turret and 2 Bolters in the Side turrets. The maingun will fire 2 times and Every Bolter fires x Times and have a chance to make damage or kill. If you use the Leman Russ with a single Maingun and 2 Lasers in the Side turrets, the mainturret fires 1 Time and every Laser fires 1 time to. In the End the First one makes more kills against infantery Units and the Second one more kills against Enemy Tank Units.
In PC2 the both Leman Russ have stats like the early Pz3 and 4, The 3 has less Armour but kills more Tanks and the pw4 kills more Infantery. For PC2 we need a mixture of both System, with some adjustments for other stuff.
Like from WH40k the Multiweapon system: If the Weapon is not fittet for Attacking a the Target (Hard Attack against Soft Defence) we get a small Supression Bonus aso. This can be interessting for Airplanes to, different Types of Fighters / Bombers have a different payload of Bombs too, like in Warthunder where you can choose if you want use 3 small Bombs or 1 biger bomb or a mixture. For the Ju´s smaller Bombs more effektive against light armored units (Transport and infantery) and the bigger ones more against Tanks and Bunkers
For the transports it can be the same, you use halftracks with an granatlauncher then your infantery get a new weapons for attack and now attacks not only with their Rifles.
For the different Tank (and Arty) Types, there can be a different System depending on the Tank and its Maingun. If you use a tank with a small gun it fires 2 times as fast as the same Tank with a lot bigger gun, but with the bigger gun you will make a kill easier than with the small one aso.
VirgilInTheSKY
Major - Jagdpanther
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Re: Underused/rated units

Post by VirgilInTheSKY »

Wolfenguard wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:28 pm from my view the Core Mechanic of PC2 is not suited for Multiturret (Weapons), the Rapidfire skill try to simulate this but in the end the most stuff is done with the different points in soft/hard attack.
If we install some additional MG´s on the Tank, with the PC2 Mechanic with rapid fire, we get the Bonus for attacking with the maingun too, or we change the Softattack with a stats bonus +x.
The Core Mechanic from W40K Armagedon, are more suitable for Multiturret/Weapon mechanic. Every Turret/Weapon in Range attack with their own Stats and Attacks. If you have a Lemun Russ with 2 Mainguns in the Turret and 2 Bolters in the Side turrets. The maingun will fire 2 times and Every Bolter fires x Times and have a chance to make damage or kill. If you use the Leman Russ with a single Maingun and 2 Lasers in the Side turrets, the mainturret fires 1 Time and every Laser fires 1 time to. In the End the First one makes more kills against infantery Units and the Second one more kills against Enemy Tank Units.
In PC2 the both Leman Russ have stats like the early Pz3 and 4, The 3 has less Armour but kills more Tanks and the pw4 kills more Infantery. For PC2 we need a mixture of both System, with some adjustments for other stuff.
Like from WH40k the Multiweapon system: If the Weapon is not fittet for Attacking a the Target (Hard Attack against Soft Defence) we get a small Supression Bonus aso. This can be interessting for Airplanes to, different Types of Fighters / Bombers have a different payload of Bombs too, like in Warthunder where you can choose if you want use 3 small Bombs or 1 biger bomb or a mixture. For the Ju´s smaller Bombs more effektive against light armored units (Transport and infantery) and the bigger ones more against Tanks and Bunkers
For the transports it can be the same, you use halftracks with an granatlauncher then your infantery get a new weapons for attack and now attacks not only with their Rifles.
For the different Tank (and Arty) Types, there can be a different System depending on the Tank and its Maingun. If you use a tank with a small gun it fires 2 times as fast as the same Tank with a lot bigger gun, but with the bigger gun you will make a kill easier than with the small one aso.
Yes, merely a stop-gap method to simulate multi-gunned units as there is no independent weapon systems. I don't want to touch core mechanics because it's out of the reach for modders as long as the developers want to stick with it for their reason.
Wolfenguard
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Re: Underused/rated units

Post by Wolfenguard »

yes for PC2 the Core mechanic is fine, for a maybe pc3 there should be some changes in the mechanics, heroes aso.
Grondel
Brigadier-General - 15 cm Nblwf 41
Brigadier-General - 15 cm Nblwf 41
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Re: Underused/rated units

Post by Grondel »

Wolfenguard wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:44 pm yes for PC2 the Core mechanic is fine, for a maybe pc3 there should be some changes in the mechanics, heroes aso.
if it comes to PC3, i would like to see some mechanics i last saw mid 90's in Battle Isle 3.
- more than 1 weapon per unit with different ammo (Tanks have main gun and machine gun, planes have AA and AS rockets, Infatrie has AT and AS weapons, etc.)
- more than 1 Altitude for planes with different weapons needed to fight diff altitude.
- way better music ;)

sers,
Thomas
nexusno2000
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Re: Underused/rated units

Post by nexusno2000 »

Grondel wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:46 pm i am currently thinking about units i rarely use, why that is and what would change it.

Things i came up with so far:
all 75mm towed arty pieces receive forced march
all 37mm towed AT pieces received force march and camouflage
StuGIIIB receives an AT mode
all heavy Weapon/Grenadier units receive MachineGun and Arty Support (maybe up prestige cost with this)
all jet planes have low altitude trait removed
BF110 type planes receive a fighter mode

please share ur thoughts on those and let me know about other units that are rarely used i missed so far.

sers,
Thomas
StuGIIIB is already awesome... strips 4 (3 even with Trench Slog) entrenchment, costs almost nothing, and backed up by AT nearly unkillable... giving it AT would make it WORSE as its HA isn't very good.

Rapid fire grenadiers with arty support... would be completely bonkers. Arty supports arty, so backed by AT it would be a fortress...
Green Knight
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Grondel
Brigadier-General - 15 cm Nblwf 41
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Re: Underused/rated units

Post by Grondel »

nexusno2000 wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:11 am StuGIIIB is already awesome... strips 4 (3 even with Trench Slog) entrenchment, costs almost nothing, and backed up by AT nearly unkillable... giving it AT would make it WORSE as its HA isn't very good.
i agree with u that it's alrdy awesome, but many others didn't. the hard/soft attack rating in AT mode are of course different.
nexusno2000 wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:11 am Rapid fire grenadiers with arty support... would be completely bonkers. Arty supports arty, so backed by AT it would be a fortress...
next update Heavy weapons inf will recieve fer. defense instead of arty support(which u would know if u read the whole thread and not just one post ;) )

sers,
Thomas
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