3rd Game - a few small questions

[miffedofreading]

Played 3rd game last night. Went very well, very few hitches.

One I am uncertain about. If you have say a unit of cavalry in front of heavy infantry, they want to get out of the way. We were allowing the cavalry to turn 90 degrees and just move away 5 inches out of range of the infantry. The rules mention you are ok as long as you don't go nearer the enemy in front of you, but there is also some comment about remaining in front of the enemy unit?? I did not understand that one.

We had an ele BG in front of friendly heavy troops. The ele failed a death roll in hand to hand and lost one of 2 elephants. We presumed this was enough for an auto break and routed the elephants back through the friendly heavies. We did not have time to check but assumed this caused disruption to the heavies they routed through?

I think there were one or two other minor questions but I have forgotten them at the moment

Andy
PS Game too 4 hours with 800 points and we did not finish. Time seems to be the biggest problem with the game from my point of view

[hammy]

Played 3rd game last night. Went very well, very few hitches.

One I am uncertain about. If you have say a unit of cavalry in front of heavy infantry, they want to get out of the way. We were allowing the cavalry to turn 90 degrees and just move away 5 inches out of range of the infantry. The rules mention you are ok as long as you don't go nearer the enemy in front of you, but there is also some comment about remaining in front of the enemy unit?? I did not understand that one.

A BG of cavalry can indeed turn 90 degrees and move but it does require a CMT.

If the cavalry are in a restricted zone (within 2 MU of the front of non skirmishers) then they can make a move that ends up further away from but still in front of the enemy. This means that as well as going further away some part of the retiring BG must still be directly in front of the BG being retired from. It might just be the corner of one base but something has to still be in front of the BG you were restricted by.

We had an ele BG in front of friendly heavy troops. The ele failed a death roll in hand to hand and lost one of 2 elephants. We presumed this was enough for an auto break and routed the elephants back through the friendly heavies. We did not have time to check but assumed this caused disruption to the heavies they routed through?

You got it spot on. The elephant BG is not removed until the end of the Joint Action Phase and if when it routs it can't avoid friends then it bursts through. Who said FoG doesn't have elephant rampages

I think there were one or two other minor questions but I have forgotten them at the moment

Andy
PS Game too 4 hours with 800 points and we did not finish. Time seems to be the biggest problem with the game from my point of view

If you are still learning the game I suspect that playing with 6-700 points would get you more results within a reasonable time.

Once you get the hang of the game it is perfectly possible to finish a game within 3 hours. At the Burton doubles which are 1000 points a side three of my four games finished within the 3.5 hour slot and the other one was within a few AP of either side breaking.

[shall]

All correct.

It took 5 hours to play at the beginning. Terry and I rarely make an 800 pt game last more than 2.5hours now. So its just time. My first DBM games got half way through in 4 hour club nights. It just learning anything new.

Si

[miffedofreading]

Guys, I am just interested....

My first question, what is the rationale behind some part of the cavalry BG moving away has to stay in front of the unit whose restricted area it is within?

I can't visualise what this is trying to achieve in my small simple head

[shall]

It is to stop troops nearby running across lines willy nilly -which in reality would get them killed.

Basically when close we want troops to reflect history by a) going froward, b) stand or toc) fall back in an attempt to get away, bit not d) to run across sideways too much which they would not do.

This resriction stops the latter and makes sure that the move is at least a genuine attempt to disengage and get away. It gets more important with LH.

The alternative consdierd was to allow intercept type concepts to happen if people made odd moves near to you but this proved too complex in testing and was dropped by us very early.

Si

[rbodleyscott]

Guys, I am just interested....

My first question, what is the rationale behind some part of the cavalry BG moving away has to stay in front of the unit whose restricted area it is within?

I can't visualise what this is trying to achieve in my small simple head

It is a simple way to avoid the cavalry (or LH or whatever) from completely ignoring the fact that they are in close proximity to the enemy.

Remember that alternate moves are only a convenience of game play, they don't represent reality. If the cavalry tried the manoeuvre you suggest in the real world, the infantry could charge them in the flank while they were doing it.

[terrys]

My first question, what is the rationale behind some part of the cavalry BG moving away has to stay in front of the unit whose restricted area it is within?

Without the rule foot armies would never be able to catch mounted armies..... What would stop the cavlary riding around the flank of the infantry before they could react. LH especially would be able to dance around infantry as if they weren't there.

If you are mounted and the enemy are not, then it's your own fault if you allow the infantry to get so close.
If you do, then your only course of action is to turn round. Move a full move away (or evade if charged from the rear). Then you'll be far enough away to make you move to the flank.

[shall]

Wow look at that 1 author reply per minute....must be record!



Si

[nikgaukroger]

PS Game too 4 hours with 800 points and we did not finish. Time seems to be the biggest problem with the game from my point of view

Mine seem to be around 3 hours to a result now. 20+ games played.

[miffedofreading]

Gosh, thanks guys for the replies.

OK I think I understand the theory, and I agree my cavalry turning 90 degrees and just going where they liked seemed strange. On the other hand there did not seem to be any other way to get away. I was basically trying to get out of the way of the enemy infantry. This seemed surprisingly difficult with heavy cavalry? I was turning 90 degrees, wheeling a little and then moving away. When I wanted to reface the infantry that was just as tricky and then he caught up again

[hammy]

The way for heavy cavalry to get out of the way of infantry is for them to evade. Of course in order to do this you need to a) be in single rank and b) not be lancers.

Once you are in single rank if charged you will run directly away and assuming the foot don't catch you you will be able to move away in your next move.

If not charged you can turn 180 and then the following move retire gracefully away.

[rtaylor]

We had an ele BG in front of friendly heavy troops. The ele failed a death roll in hand to hand and lost one of 2 elephants. We presumed this was enough for an auto break and routed the elephants back through the friendly heavies. We did not have time to check but assumed this caused disruption to the heavies they routed through?

You got it spot on. The elephant BG is not removed until the end of the Joint Action Phase and if when it routs it can't avoid friends then it bursts through. Who said FoG doesn't have elephant rampages

Does an auto-break always force a rout even if the BG wasn't broken through failing CTs? I had got the impression that an auto-broken BG simply evaporates in place at the end of the JAP. Did I get that wrong?

[rbodleyscott]

Does an auto-break always force a rout even if the BG wasn't broken through failing CTs? I had got the impression that an auto-broken BG simply evaporates in place at the end of the JAP.

Autobroken troops are broken. Hence they rout like any other broken troops. They rout once immediately, then again in the JAP. Then (because they are autobroken) they evaporate.

The purpose of this is specifically to create the risk of them breaking through their friends and disrupting them. It also means that enemy fighting them may pursue them twice. (If there are any bases left after the first pursuit).

[rtaylor]

Autobroken troops are broken. Hence they rout like any other broken troops. They rout once immediately, then again in the JAP. Then (because they are autobroken) they evaporate.

The purpose of this is specifically to create the risk of them breaking through their friends and disrupting them. It also means that enemy fighting them may pursue them twice. (If there are any bases left after the first pursuit).

That makes much more sense. Thank you.

[hammy]

I think (but may be wrong) that 2 base BGs of superior or elite troops don't actually auto break on being reduced to 1 base but are removed and count as destroyed in the JAP.

[terrys]

I think (but may be wrong) that 2 base BGs of superior or elite troops don't actually auto break on being reduced to 1 base but are removed and count as destroyed in the JAP.

Correct, although it still triggers CT's on adjacent BGs at this point as if it had actually broken.

[shall]

Yes more of an evaporation in that case

Si

[hammy]

I think (but may be wrong) that 2 base BGs of superior or elite troops don't actually auto break on being reduced to 1 base but are removed and count as destroyed in the JAP.

Correct, although it still triggers CT's on adjacent BGs at this point as if it had actually broken.

But it would seem it doesn't trigger a pusuit as it never routs.... ?

[shall]

Hard to pursue evaporating things!

Si

[BrianC]

I thought I read a reply before by RBS and I could be wrong that said that they were assumed to be cut down to the last man fighting.

Brian