villers-bocage

[johndoe2]

Villers-bocage without loosing any units?

And how?

I was complaining it's not hard enough - it's plenty hard now

[Kamerer]

Go slow, and keep your artillery close to support your units. Don't obsess about a DV, this scenario was not designed to make that an easy accomplishment. I rarely get one here - I'd rather keep my units to fight another day than rush into the difficult urban terrain and loose one or two. This is especially true if you are starting with the stock core or don't have enough powerful ground units to fully deploy because of the grounded air units.

You can take care of the NE objective with some artillery and core units, and instead use the aux Tiger to start working into the 'ville right away, no need to divert it up there for several turns.

[johndoe2]

Tiger I with 2 arty support melted by two Sherman Fireflys.
Elephant with one arty support melted under the joint strike of 2 AT
Infantry with one arty annihilated by two Brit inf etc...

I'm gonna restart with 2 Tiger II in the lead and buy extra artillery still not enough credit to fill the roster (6-7 empty slots I think)

The problem is:
1. Time
2. Arty - you need to move, suppress and defend at the same time, you need mobile arty for that and with 5 munition we go back to -
3. Time!


PS

[Kamerer]

Ok, let's back up here a second:

1) If you have valuable armor under 10 strength, retire it to the rear and don't risk it. or if you are playing a level with generous prestige, then elite reinforce it to 10 or more before re-committing it.
2) Don't be using your armor like infantry in close-terrain, like urban hexes, bocage, etc. Only units with high close defense ratings should be leading in there - strong infantry, Pz.III/N, etc. Armor should work the clear lanes between close terrain, or into it when it is scouted ahead and backed by multiple artillery.

These are some basic things to follow in general. And remember, this scenario is not designed to yield an easy DV, so if you are pushing for one and risking units like that picture shows, then yes, you will loose several units.

[johndoe2]

Of course you approach being classical was the first to try. But with only 4 infantry units not very practical (lost some on the way to this scenario). And survivability of new infantry unit is 0 so it's prestige down the drain...
I can't reinforce mid game because I don't have the prestige to do so - I have to wait for the end of the scenario.
In DLC East combination of tanks and artillery was sure prestige saver. Not here. I don't know what's changed but units keep getting unreasonable casualties even when supported by multiple artillery so I can't spear prestige for extra units. At this point losing a unit or two is disaster - prestige and experience vise.
And using armor in close terrain was viable option in DLC East - remember those Berlin scenarios? Tiger II (supported with arty) just melted any attack coming their way. I mean I had something in excess of 30.000 prestige by the end and hips of spare infantry and tanks with plenty of experience because I kept rotating the core units...

So yeah, I'm interested in personal experiences of other players with this particular scenario. Surely others have prestige 'deficits'? How many infantry units do you deploy? Artillery? etc... Any screen captures?

[johndoe2]

Maybe I should explain the screen capture - it's the second replay turn 11.

I just lost Tiger I in the north by two enemy infantry units - it was supported by two arty (which have now retreated in safe distance for regrouping). The Sherman Firefly are dead (killed by the two Tiger II), as are most of the AT. At this point DV looks promising.

BUT few turns back I lost my SA infantry which was with me all the way from Poland and previous turn the aforementioned Tiger I. Can I cope with those loses at this point in the game? Again if this was DLC East I wouldn't blink an eye and move on (plenty of spare units and prestige) but here can I buy another Tiger I (actually after meeting the Firefly I need a Tiger II) next turn - and as I sad survivability of new infantry at this point is 0. Can I go on with only 3 inf units?


OK I'm gonna lose the war but this battle 'm gonna win on my turns

Bought two extra pioneers + two towed arty 21cm.
And the dice seems to be in my favor - AT 17p (10) attacks Tiger II (10) in woods, Hummel (13) fires Tiger II fires AT down to 3 strength Anyway the situation at turn 7

[johndoe2]

DV - No lost units.



I don't get this - the game 'behaved' as I remember it. Tiger II in city hex supported by arty doesn't get a scratch, pioneers with no experience stand firm with slight loses, Tiger I doesn't melt under the attack of Sherman Firefly etc. etc. Panzer Corps as I know it. So it's not the tactic that matters it's the whim of the engine?

[brettz123]

DV - No lost units.



I don't get this - the game 'behaved' as I remember it. Tiger II in city hex supported by arty doesn't get a scratch, pioneers with no experience stand firm with slight loses, Tiger I doesn't melt under the attack of Sherman Firefly etc. etc. Panzer Corps as I know it. So it's not the tactic that matters it's the whim of the engine?

The random nature of combat results can lead to this kind of thing. If you get really unlucky and your artillery either misfires or doesn't suppress a good amount of the attacking infantry you are going to be in serious trouble. I would suggest using wurfrahmen to back up tanks in built up / rough terrain because it is much better at dealing with infantry than normal artillery.

[johndoe2]

It's just that in this last re-play every single battle was in my favor

[Razz1]

It's the RNG and it effects Multiplayers games alot.

[Aloo]

Had a problem on first try but on second try I got a DV. Had to change my initial setup.

IIRC problem with this sceno is that it is constantly overcast or cloudy (not sure which) and this makes arty less effective. Because of this using tanks in cities is a huge problem.

I think pioneer units are not so great since IIRC they have low initiative. I use grenadiers and FJ.

The thing I see in the west branch of the campaign is that infantry is much more important.

[johndoe2]

"overcast or cloudy (not sure which) and this makes arty less effective."
You are quite right I didn't account for this. Anyway the game is done no loses and (hollow) DV

And I want to share the 88AA that one shots 10 strength fighter planes now (lovely)