Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

[JimmyC]

Thanks for the prompt response McGuba and the link to the AAR. I think I have read that one, although I will have another look at it to try and get some tips for Sealion. With the coastal artillery being repairable, I think it will be very, very difficult to achieve. In my other Sealion (v1.08 or 1.07 I guess), I found that the Allies just moved their units to all available landing hexes, which meant it was very hard to get any units to actually land. I had to time it to whittle down a radar tower or bunker and then land on the same turn that I destroyed it. Otherwise the Allies would just move a unit into that hex. Will try this approach again, but its going to be very tough I guess…

I had a look at the equipment file and you seem to have tweaked some units – generally making the Axis ones worse. Most noticeable changes that I can see are the decrease in range of the 2cm AA (much more incentive to upgrade it to something else now) and that a lot of planes are a bit worse. But I’m sure the biggest challenge will be regarding the upgrades. It will make it so much harder and will really have to think whether its worth to withdraw units from the front line to upgrade them.

By the way, any thought to creating a minesweeper naval unit class so that we can more easily clear mines?

[McGuba]

I had a look at the equipment file and you seem to have tweaked some units – generally making the Axis ones worse. Most noticeable changes that I can see are the decrease in range of the 2cm AA (much more incentive to upgrade it to something else now) and that a lot of planes are a bit worse.

Not exactly true, some others are actually better, for example the Tiger I has more ammo, and has a later version with more fuel (more reliable late war), some more sub-versions added to fighters with better stats, with some of them having more historical aces, and the fast redeployment of air units can make a big difference which somewhat balances the need to take back ground units to Germany (or selected other coastal port cities) for upgrade. In general, Axis air units can be moved between the different theaters faster providing greater flexibility. Also the Axis side can get more replacement units for the losses, mainly strategic bombers but also some fighters and tanks. This can allow a more aggressive approach as the player can afford higher losses, some of which will be replaced with new free units. The Axis also gets more U-boats from 1943 and they have better survivability due to them having the recon trait when submerged allowing them to escape even if surrounded by enemy destroyers or to move around naval mines in one turn. So I think the overall strength of the Axis forces is about the same or even a bit higher.

But I’m sure the biggest challenge will be regarding the upgrades. It will make it so much harder and will really have to think whether its worth to withdraw units from the front line to upgrade them.

Yes, it is indeed a big question and requires more logistics and a better control of the main railway lines to prevent partisan ambushes. On the other hand, the Germans also start with a few more ground units in most classes to compensate for the fact that a few units will always be away from the front. For example, compared to v1.8 and v1.9, in v2.0 there is one more towed AT, recon, AA and figther unit in the map in the first turn and an additional Pz.III tank unit also appears in September 1941. And players on the losing side get more fun to play late war special units than in v1.8, including one each Me 163 and Ar 234 jet aircraft unit, Ferdinand (Elefant) and Jagdtiger tank hunters, and even a Type XXI class U-boat unit. These miracle weapons outperform anything that the Allies have in the same unit class. However, some of them only appear if the Axis is unable to defeat at least one of the main enemies by 1944. In general, the Axis gets more late war ground units if the Soviets are still active and more air units if Britain has not been invaded.

By the way, any thought to creating a minesweeper naval unit class so that we can more easily clear mines?

I am not sure if the minesweeper trait would work with destroyers and if it would make them more effective against the normal moored mines. I think I tried and did not really worked. But the new bottom mines are in the submarine class so I cannot really make destoryers more effective against these. And now the player can also deploy some naval mines from minelayer ships and bombers in shallow waters. These can cause a nasty surprise to the enemy in both single and multiplayer games.

[JimmyC]

My comments were made by just looking at the equipment file and without taking into account these other changes you mentioned. So it will be interesting to see how it all plays out. Planes run low on fuel much sooner, which makes proximity to airfields much more important now. I will have to remember about the new air function you mentioned as it would be easy to forget. When using this air transport function, is there unlimited fuel?

The Italian fighters have been nerfed, which is a shame as I was quite fond of them (they used to perform fairly well against Russian air, but this may change given their reduced AA). The large reduction in fuel for the Condor seems to make it redundant for patrolling the Atlantic shipping lanes, although even before it was only moderately useful.

I’ve just finished the earlier campaigns, for which I noticed you also made some changes. Overall I found it more enjoyable, although I can’t say exactly why. The Norway one was interesting, but you may need to look at the script for the Allied navy as the vessels in the far north are totally passive and neither attack, nor move, whilst others seem to disappear after the beginning. The only ones that did seem to act rationally, were a destroyer and a sub which tried to blockade Oslo (a very nice touch which made me have to postpone the landing of my armour).

[Panzernutt]

Hi I'm new to the forums. I downloaded this mod and I think it's great. I like just about everything in this mod but the small fact that you have to play all of the axis countries. I was wondering if it's possible just to play as one of the axis countries. I meant maybe in future update. I would like to play as just the Germans or Italians would be cool and have other axis countries be A.I. controlled. I know you are probably done with this mod and it just might be wishful thinking lol.

[JimmyC]

@McGuba,
One of the downsides to being able to upgrade only in certain cities is that there are some units which are not upgradeable, however you can only realise it after wasting a couple of turns moving them back to Germany and trying to upgrade...

Would it be possible to somehow indicate if a unit is not upgradeable, such as including it in the units name or something?

[McGuba]

When using this air transport function, is there unlimited fuel?

Yes, sure, basically the same as with train transports for ground units. But this time it is for air units and they can of course move any direction including over seas, and can embark and disembark at unoccupied airfields. However, when in air transport mode they are very vulnerable and if the enemy finds them they can be easy prey so they should not be moved over enemy territory or where they can be spotted and attacked by enemy figthers. In our multiplayer game we managed to destroy some of them in transit.

Hi I'm new to the forums. I downloaded this mod and I think it's great. I like just about everything in this mod but the small fact that you have to play all of the axis countries. I was wondering if it's possible just to play as one of the axis countries. I meant maybe in future update. I would like to play as just the Germans or Italians would be cool and have other axis countries be A.I. controlled. I know you are probably done with this mod and it just might be wishful thinking lol.

Hi, as far as I know, unfortunately in PzC1 it is not possible to make the AI control a friendly nation. It can only control the opposing side as a whole.

However, I think it would be possible to organize a multiplayer game in which for example one player controls the Soviets, another the Western Allies on the Allied side, and in each turn they would only move those units and then save and hand over the turn to the other player before pressing the "end turn" button. Similarly, it would be possible that on the Axis side one player would only control Germany, and then another Italy and maybe even a third one the Minor Axis nations. But in the end it would slow down the multiplayer match even more as players would need to wait for each other. And of course it would be difficult to agree on how to share the limted prestige resources between the players of the same side. Nevertheless, it would indeed be very interesting.

@McGuba,
One of the downsides to being able to upgrade only in certain cities is that there are some units which are not upgradeable, however you can only realise it after wasting a couple of turns moving them back to Germany and trying to upgrade...

Would it be possible to somehow indicate if a unit is not upgradeable, such as including it in the units name or something?

Actually yes, I was thinking to do something like that, but forgot before the release. There is only a few such units, just out of my head these are the captured French tanks in Paris, the captured T-34, the heavest artillery, Italian L-6 light tank and maybe a few more. But sure, I will go through all and add a suffix to the name of these. It also affects some air units but I think it is not such a big problem with those as airfields are everywehre and it can become obvious.

[JimmyC]

Its interesting the new air units that can only travel over water and not land. The new air transport function is great! I usually rotate the Italian planes from North Africa to Eastern Europe and replace with some German fighters. Having air transport makes it waaaay quicker! Same goes for transferring from Eastern to Western Europe!

[Panzernutt]

Thanks McGuba. I had a crash but can't remember when it happened. I think it was shortly after and event popped up where you give advice to use a su or ju bomber to destroy fortress of malta with fighter support. I think this mod is a lot of fun. I have one issues how come you can't attack Vichy france. I guess that might be for a latter event maybe.Thanks for this great mod

[McGuba]

Its interesting the new air units that can only travel over water and not land.

Yeah, I did not like the fact that the AI sometimes used its Catalinas to attack tank units in France so I decided to make these and other seaplanes only able to fly over sea hexes, although they can also enter coastal airfields for repairs. Now both sides have some dedicated seaplanes for maritime operations. The only problem is sometimes they have to fly around land masses to reach the nearest airfield before running out of fuel and the game does not take it into count when it calculates the "bingo fuel", it only calculates the shortest direct route which may be inaccessible. So some extra caution is recommended here.

Thanks McGuba. I had a crash but can't remember when it happened. I think it was shortly after and event popped up where you give advice to use a su or ju bomber to destroy fortress of malta with fighter support.

Occasional crashes may occur during the AI turn due to the complexity of the mod. (I had two during the testing of the 99 turns.) Usually at the second run after a reload it goes fine. Therefore it is recommended to always save the game at the end of the turn before clicking the "end turn" button.

I have one issues how come you can't attack Vichy france. I guess that might be for a latter event maybe.Thanks for this great mod

Initially Vichy France is regarded as a neutral nation and thus neither side can attack it, same as with other neutral nations like Sweden or Switzerland. Even if in practise it was more like a vassal state and the Vichy regime collaborated with Germany. However, after the Allied landings in North Africa, Tunisia opens up in late 1942 so that the race for Tunis can start. If the Allies can capture Tunis it will trigger the Allied invasion of Sicily, which, if successful, will trigger the Allied invasion of Italy and the Italian surrender. In late 1942 the continental part of Vichy France also opens up, allowing Germany to occupy it in preparation for a possible Allied landing in South France.

[JimmyC]

Ju188A upgrade is too expensive for what you get. 1 extra GD, AD, AA (passive) for 200 prestige. Also it has less fuel than the 88A. Compare with the Heinkel upgrade which for a similar cost gives you way better everything. I recommend reducing the price of the Ju188A upgrade as its currently just not worth it IMO. Alternatively you could make its stats better.

Also, for the Condor I don’t like that it is only allowed to fly over water and not on land. Especially as it has less fuel in this version it cannot spend very long over shipping lanes anyway, so I feel it is somewhat useless. Perhaps you could bump its fuel up a bit given this limitation or otherwise remove the trait?

[guille1434]

About the maritime recon aircraft and their special "over water only" move type, which prevent them to fly over land, this causing problems with the remaining fuel calculation made by the program for such units (I have read this in the previous posting and also in a previous one recently in this thread also), I would like to propose an idea, which perhaps gives a solution to this "glitch".

May be those aircraft can be given a switch where they are restored their normal air movement type (allowing to fly over land and/or water) but giving it normal stats (specially spotting range), i.e. just like any "regular" aircraft type.

Just an idea...

[McGuba]

Ju188A upgrade is too expensive for what you get. 1 extra GD, AD, AA (passive) for 200 prestige. Also it has less fuel than the 88A. Compare with the Heinkel upgrade which for a similar cost gives you way better everything. I recommend reducing the price of the Ju188A upgrade as its currently just not worth it IMO. Alternatively you could make its stats better.

Yes, I already noticed it, and reduced its price so that the upgrade will cost like 100 prestige. In fact, the Ju 188 was only marginally better than the Ju 88 so I would not want to increase its stats more, as it was not very successful. The Ju188 bomber was produced in relatively low numbers and its production ended at about the same time as the bomber version of the Ju 88, in 1944. Ideally, players should upgrade maybe only one Ju 88 bomber to it to represent the historical production numbers. I may add the recon version of the Ju 188 later though, so that a Ju 88D recon unit could get a cheap or free upgrade, as Intenso suggested some time ago.

Also, for the Condor I don’t like that it is only allowed to fly over water and not on land. Especially as it has less fuel in this version it cannot spend very long over shipping lanes anyway, so I feel it is somewhat useless. Perhaps you could bump its fuel up a bit given this limitation or otherwise remove the trait?

Yes, I can add it a bit more fuel.

About the maritime recon aircraft and their special "over water only" move type, which prevent them to fly over land, this causing problems with the remaining fuel calculation made by the program for such units (I have read this in the previous posting and also in a previous one recently in this thread also), I would like to propose an idea, which perhaps gives a solution to this "glitch".

May be those aircraft can be given a switch where they are restored their normal air movement type (allowing to fly over land and/or water) but giving it normal stats (specially spotting range), i.e. just like any "regular" aircraft type.

Just an idea...

It did not cause a major problem so far as there are several coastal airfields for both sides now. The only real obstacle is the British isles and if the Axis player can only reach a friendly airfield by flying over it than that unit is most likely destroyed by the British fighters anyway.

[Uhu]

Keen,
I understand, that at the starting phase Allied player has not so many options, but you made in two games the most of it, making absolute different decisions and winning already the game at about turn 35 (not fully, but the Axis side had no more chance) and also making me very big difficulties for the second game, where I did not make big mistakes and made a better plan. And it is yet the first half of the game, when the Axis player should about dominate! :O

So I see so, that the Allied player has still many options and if the possibilities what you demand for the Allied side, would be fulfilled than the Axis side would already loose the war in 1942 and anyway, no fun would be there for the Axis side. The 6000 prestige is a little high, but maybe it can be spent later better?

I played 30 turns multiplayer scenario vs Uhu.
Match is very interesting, but IMHO multiplayer version needs some changes.
Single version is good enough, its historically and so on.
But in multiplayer version there is no alternative for Allies side.
You only have to wait reinforcement and mostly just react for Axis attack. Thats boring.

1) The number of slots should be the same. 200 for both sides or something like that.
Axis have some alternative decisions here but Allies totally not.
30 turns passed, I have 6000 prestige points and i don't know what to do with it.

2) That's strange when Allies side haven't naval transport, specially England.
In our game all my fleet stay near the Malta but can not reoccupy it. Looks funny. ))
Paratroops also should be added.

3) About some freezing units. Leningrad, armies near the border at the beggining of war, England army in Africa thats ok.
Few turns ago my 120mm mortar unit was attacked and they start moving, but some turns later i move them to the same hex,
and they are now freezing again. I have to remember this hexes or what better to do in this situations?

In my opinion multiplayer version have to be more flexible and enjoyable. )

And the last question. How many reinforcement i will not receive if i lost Moscow?
10% maybe 20% What about other important cities? Maybe you have any guide?

Anyway thank you for MOD again. Great work!

[George_Parr]

In fact, the Ju 188 was only marginally better than the Ju 88 so I would not want to increase its stats more, as it was not very successful.

Well, it was basically just one of the many different developments out of the Ju 88, being based on the Ju 88 B. The only real reason why it was named Ju 188 was because it sounded like an entirely new plane, and that was good for propaganda. Same with the Ju 388, which was just a modified Ju 188 as well

It never was meant as anything beyond a stop-gap until the Ju 288 was ready, which never happened because it was deemed that the resources were needed elsewhere, and that moving over production to an entirely new line would put too much of a strain on bomber-production at that point. Truly incredible how often Germany shot itself in the foot with these kind of things.

[Keen]

Keen,
I understand, that at the starting phase Allied player has not so many options, but you made in two games the most of it, making absolute different decisions and winning already the game at about turn 35 (not fully, but the Axis side had no more chance) and also making me very big difficulties for the second game, where I did not make big mistakes and made a better plan. And it is yet the first half of the game, when the Axis player should about dominate! :O

I think you lost a lot of units due to tactical mistakes, but i can't be sure because i don't see replays of your moves.
I agree, i play passive the second game and that looks good too.

So I see so, that the Allied player has still many options and if the possibilities what you demand for the Allied side, would be fulfilled than the Axis side would already loose the war in 1942 and anyway, no fun would be there for the Axis side.

I vote to give some possibilities for Axis side too. I don't know what it have to be yet. Hope we will play one more time and i will try Axis side.

[Spiffing Brit]

Remember, for the next Big version Mcguba will have access to 256 AI zones! I Personally hope this leads to an expansion in the war's length.

[Ljungen81]

Hello McGuba!

I am a Panzer General Veteran and I want to thank you for the best WWII experience I have had in gaming so far

Three questions:

1. Will you continue to develop this mod when PzC2 comes out?

2. Do you see yourself making a mod for PzC2?

3. Why no Waffen SS-units? Political choice?

Anyway, keep up the amazing work.

[McGuba]

In fact, the Ju 188 was only marginally better than the Ju 88 so I would not want to increase its stats more, as it was not very successful.

Well, it was basically just one of the many different developments out of the Ju 88, being based on the Ju 88 B. The only real reason why it was named Ju 188 was because it sounded like an entirely new plane, and that was good for propaganda. Same with the Ju 388, which was just a modified Ju 188 as well

It never was meant as anything beyond a stop-gap until the Ju 288 was ready, which never happened because it was deemed that the resources were needed elsewhere, and that moving over production to an entirely new line would put too much of a strain on bomber-production at that point. Truly incredible how often Germany shot itself in the foot with these kind of things.

Thanks for the info, I was thinking the same lines when I did not give to high stats increase to the Ju 188.

Remember, for the next Big version Mcguba will have access to 256 AI zones! I Personally hope this leads to an expansion in the war's length.

Sorry, but currently I am not planning to extend the mod beyond turn 99. If and when I will start to make use of the extra AI zones I will possibly use them for other things. But even if it happens it will take quite a while.

Hello McGuba!

I am a Panzer General Veteran and I want to thank you for the best WWII experience I have had in gaming so far

Hi, and thanks. And I am a Panzer General Veteran as well.

Three questions:

1. Will you continue to develop this mod when PzC2 comes out?

Possibly yes, depending how much time I will have.

2. Do you see yourself making a mod for PzC2?

It depends on how much I will like it and if I will be able to do similar things for example adding new units, if necessary. At the moment it looks like it will be difficult to create new units without 3D modelling skills, which I do not have at the moment. And using only the official set of units may be too much of a limitation for me to achieve my goals.

3. Why no Waffen SS-units? Political choice?

Partly yes, but also because the basic assumption of this mod is that the Führer is removed from power, which allows the player to take full control of the Axis forces, and in this alternative reality there would be no Waffen SS units, unless the player himself decides to rename some units to them.

[Intenso82]

And it is yet the first half of the game, when the Axis player should about dominate! :O

Hope we will play one more time and i will try Axis side.

Interestingly, my assumption was that when the Axis gets full prestige (we played with half), it will dominate in the East.

I hope you and Keen play the game on the other side later.

[George_Parr]

I had some ideas about possible German reinforcements that I had tested on my local version of the mod:

1) Send reinforcements to North Africa if and when Malta has been captured, to represent the improved supply-situation. I think I had a Pz IV, one (mot) infantry, one Sturmpanzer II and either a Panzerjäger I or Marder II (or III?) depending on the time of Malta falling. Those were all units that actually ended up in Africa. Having just one German tank-unit seems fine to represent the amount of tanks in the early going, but Germany did send a ton of tanks later on, and I don't mean as reinforcements for Tunisia

2) Add the Luftwaffe-Feld-Divisionen in 1942. They were quite the sizeable force in terms of numbers, and had the best equipment available thanks to Göring's influence, but had no training whatsoever and were still led by officers who had no ground-combat experience either. I think I used a bunch of infantry with zero experience, plus an art, at and aa unit each. Though you probably could just create a new lesser infantry unit as well, seeing how the divisions were a bit smaller than the regular ones. Units like this would give you historic reinforcements without necessarily boosting your combat strength too much.