Most Realistic Exp. Mod Battlefield Europe v2.0 (replay)

[Uhu]

This tactics to let the AI have weakened units in front of you seems to be working. Nice idea! I would although not use it, because it would give me the feeling that I cheat the game.

[faos333]

This tactics to let the AI have weakened units in front of you seems to be working. Nice idea! I would although not use it, because it would give me the feeling that I cheat the game.

well the game somehow favors the AI in many ways I think is legitimate for you also to use this kind of tactics

[PeteMitchell]

This tactics to let the AI have weakened units in front of you seems to be working. Nice idea! I would although not use it, because it would give me the feeling that I cheat the game.

well the game somehow favors the in many ways I think is legitimate for you also to use this kind of tactics

I think it is the same as with fighter traps etc.

[faos333]

I am happy to see that it worked so far to contain the Allies in Normandy...

In spring, there will be more Allied planes again, of course... the risk of breakthroughs will increase... but most likely not until the Rhine anymore...

Happy for your valuable input as well on that issue, seems to do the job
How about upgrading a hero fighter to Me 262 will it help spring time?
Will it be able to be respected, thus avoiding a Mustang attack?

[Uhu]

It was not a critic, just how I play it.
I do not see any sense to upgrade on the super expensive Me 262. There will be the Ta-152 which is also a very good type and is much cheaper. Anyway at this stage of the war, there is not much to change with the air units.

This tactics to let the AI have weakened units in front of you seems to be working. Nice idea! I would although not use it, because it would give me the feeling that I cheat the game.

well the game somehow favors the AI in many ways I think is legitimate for you also to use this kind of tactics

[faos333]

It was not a critic, just how I play it.
I do not see any sense to upgrade on the super expensive Me 262. There will be the Ta-152 which is also a very good type and is much cheaper. Anyway at this stage of the war, there is not much to change with the air units.

This tactics to let the AI have weakened units in front of you seems to be working. Nice idea! I would although not use it, because it would give me the feeling that I cheat the game.

well the game somehow favors the AI in many ways I think is legitimate for you also to use this kind of tactics

No problem, I did not take it as a critic
Ta-152 good idea

[George_Parr]

This is my point, why use the Elephant at all? It needs support from ground and from air, is slow, needs lots of maintenance also...

As for the Elefant I would highly recommend watching the related Tankchat episode on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqoFbkdEnpw

Interestingly in the video the presenter came to the very same conclusion like you: although impressive on paper, in practice it was too expensive, to unreliable, too slow and ultimately a failure. In reality only 90 were ever produced in one batch and hence the hard unit strength limit in the mod and the astronomical price for overstrength or elite replacements. In order to have more you need to convince the whole German High Command that you need this heavy metal instead of the cheaper and better Tiger I. Perhaps they would need to build a new factory only for that. And it is quite telling when the Tiger I is being seen as the "cheaper" and more reliable alternative to something. Thus I think the Elefant is now being represented in the mod quite accurately.

I'm a bit late on that one, but I was just reading through the whole topic

I think one thing often gets overlooked on discussions about that vehicle. People tend to act as if it was a designed vehicle and thus a waste of research-capabilities and production, but that wasn't the case at all.

The reason why it existed, and why there were exactly 90 of them (technically one was an actual Porsche Tiger), is because Ferdinand Porsche thought his Tiger-design would be chosen, and he started to produce the chassis at his own cost. When it was decided that his design wouldn't be used, they were suddenly left with all these produced chassis. Now,they either could have scrapped them, gaining little in the process, or put them to some use. They opted to do the latter and turn them into tank-destroyers.

If it had been a case of "lets develop a heavy tank-destroyer and start mass-production" it would have been a collossal failure, due to it its high cost, unreliability and lumbering speed. But as a case of "what the hell are we going to do with that stuff?" the actual impact they had on the battlefield was a bonus. As amazing as the Tank Museum generally is in explaining the vehicles, I think this time around they weren't quite clear enough, because you can interprete their words as "they decided to develop a tank-destroyer out of it and then started production" instead of mentioning that they merely took what already existed and put it to some use.

[PeteMitchell]

This is my point, why use the Elephant at all? It needs support from ground and from air, is slow, needs lots of maintenance also...

As for the Elefant I would highly recommend watching the related Tankchat episode on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqoFbkdEnpw

Interestingly in the video the presenter came to the very same conclusion like you: although impressive on paper, in practice it was too expensive, to unreliable, too slow and ultimately a failure. In reality only 90 were ever produced in one batch and hence the hard unit strength limit in the mod and the astronomical price for overstrength or elite replacements. In order to have more you need to convince the whole German High Command that you need this heavy metal instead of the cheaper and better Tiger I. Perhaps they would need to build a new factory only for that. And it is quite telling when the Tiger I is being seen as the "cheaper" and more reliable alternative to something. Thus I think the Elefant is now being represented in the mod quite accurately.

I'm a bit late on that one, but I was just reading through the whole topic

I think one thing often gets overlooked on discussions about that vehicle. People tend to act as if it was a designed vehicle and thus a waste of research-capabilities and production, but that wasn't the case at all.

The reason why it existed, and why there were exactly 90 of them (technically one was an actual Porsche Tiger), is because Ferdinand Porsche thought his Tiger-design would be chosen, and he started to produce the chassis at his own cost. When it was decided that his design wouldn't be used, they were suddenly left with all these produced chassis. Now,they either could have scrapped them, gaining little in the process, or put them to some use. They opted to do the latter and turn them into tank-destroyers.

If it had been a case of "lets develop a heavy tank-destroyer and start mass-production" it would have been a collossal failure, due to it its high cost, unreliability and lumbering speed. But as a case of "what the hell are we going to do with that stuff?" the actual impact they had on the battlefield was a bonus. As amazing as the Tank Museum generally is in explaining the vehicles, I think this time around they weren't quite clear enough, because you can interprete their words as "they decided to develop a tank-destroyer out of it and then started production" instead of mentioning that they merely took what already existed and put it to some use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elefant#D ... nt_history
The German version has a bit more on it.

[PeteMitchell]

I am happy to see that it worked so far to contain the Allies in Normandy...

In spring, there will be more Allied planes again, of course... the risk of breakthroughs will increase... but most likely not until the Rhine anymore...

Happy for your valuable input as well on that issue, seems to do the job
How about upgrading a hero fighter to Me 262 will it help spring time?
Will it be able to be respected, thus avoiding a Mustang attack?

I doubt plane upgrades will matter much...

IMHO, you just need to make sure you have more than one line on the ground, i.e. in case some units of your first defense line get fully suppressed and killed or forced to surrender in more than one turn... but you are far away from the Rhine so I doubt much will happen there... plus you have some rivers prior to the Rhine that will help you...

[faos333]

Turn 90 speaking of air defense practices

bev2-turn-90-london-v1.JPG (184.78 KiB) Viewed 1595 times

[faos333]

Turn 90 heroic stand in Normandy inflicting numerous losses to 4 attacking allied aircrafts, from JG26 FW190 Dora D9, with hero A1 D4
A new Me 262 is offered from scenario.

bev2-turn-90-JG26.JPG (207.74 KiB) Viewed 1588 times

[PeteMitchell]

Winter/snow makes the Normandy defense on the ground harder as well...

[faos333]

Turn 90 the dreadful ones, taken care of in Stalingrad

bev2-turn-91-stalingrad.JPG (192.17 KiB) Viewed 1580 times

[faos333]

Winter/snow makes the Normandy defense on the ground harder as well...

I kind of feeling this right now, allied artillery and armor creates more damage than expected

[Duedman]

And those Allied tanks really pack a punch. Not just pushovers for Panthers like one is used to

[faos333]

And those Allied tanks really pack a punch. Not just pushovers for Panthers like one is used to

Thanks for joining the discussion, absolutely agree. I am waiting for weather to change Loire river will cut them off, splitting them in two, then we shall see how it goes with hopefully surrenders

[PeteMitchell]

And those Allied tanks really pack a punch. Not just pushovers for Panthers like one is used to

Thanks for joining the discussion, absolutely agree. I am waiting for weather to change Loire river will cut them off, splitting them in two, then we shall see how it goes with hopefully surrenders

Yes, the base game is less correct historically, balance wise I mean...

[faos333]

As for the Elefant I would highly recommend watching the related Tankchat episode on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqoFbkdEnpw

Interestingly in the video the presenter came to the very same conclusion like you: although impressive on paper, in practice it was too expensive, to unreliable, too slow and ultimately a failure. In reality only 90 were ever produced in one batch and hence the hard unit strength limit in the mod and the astronomical price for overstrength or elite replacements. In order to have more you need to convince the whole German High Command that you need this heavy metal instead of the cheaper and better Tiger I. Perhaps they would need to build a new factory only for that. And it is quite telling when the Tiger I is being seen as the "cheaper" and more reliable alternative to something. Thus I think the Elefant is now being represented in the mod quite accurately.

I'm a bit late on that one, but I was just reading through the whole topic

I think one thing often gets overlooked on discussions about that vehicle. People tend to act as if it was a designed vehicle and thus a waste of research-capabilities and production, but that wasn't the case at all.

The reason why it existed, and why there were exactly 90 of them (technically one was an actual Porsche Tiger), is because Ferdinand Porsche thought his Tiger-design would be chosen, and he started to produce the chassis at his own cost. When it was decided that his design wouldn't be used, they were suddenly left with all these produced chassis. Now,they either could have scrapped them, gaining little in the process, or put them to some use. They opted to do the latter and turn them into tank-destroyers.

If it had been a case of "lets develop a heavy tank-destroyer and start mass-production" it would have been a collossal failure, due to it its high cost, unreliability and lumbering speed. But as a case of "what the hell are we going to do with that stuff?" the actual impact they had on the battlefield was a bonus. As amazing as the Tank Museum generally is in explaining the vehicles, I think this time around they weren't quite clear enough, because you can interprete their words as "they decided to develop a tank-destroyer out of it and then started production" instead of mentioning that they merely took what already existed and put it to some use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elefant#D ... nt_history
The German version has a bit more on it.

Thanks for joining the discussion, very insightful info, I didn't know before, this explains a lot about the Elephants

[faos333]

And those Allied tanks really pack a punch. Not just pushovers for Panthers like one is used to

Thanks for joining the discussion, absolutely agree. I am waiting for weather to change Loire river will cut them off, splitting them in two, then we shall see how it goes with hopefully surrenders

Yes, the base game is less correct historically, balance wise I mean...

That is why, it will take a while for me to continue the GC 44 Manstein !!! it looks so easy compared to BE Mod

[faos333]

Turn 90 Ulyanovsk bypassed Kuybyshev in sight

bev2-turn-91-stalin-bunker.JPG (212.78 KiB) Viewed 1568 times