Tactical puzzles

[nexusno2000]

BOOM!

It's not impossible! Hint- you literally have to use every single unit!

Kudos devs- that was hard to to the level of frustration!

Quite the contrary.

Devs made a puzzle. Puzzle was solved. Devs decided to change puzzle. Duhhhh.

They get the exact opposite of kudos from me.

Whilst I can agree that changing the puzzle after it was solved is a bit naughty I still think its is well designed and certainly a brain work out, that's what they get kudos for.

And it was already excellent. It was by far the most difficult and fulfilling puzzle. There was not really any need to change it.

After changing it I lost absolutely all enjoyment of these puzzles.

[nexusno2000]

While on the topic of puzzles: Operation X is toted as Very Hard. Why? It's actually one of the easiest puzzles. Well, maybe not easiest, but there is nothing fundamentally difficult about it. Just drop down a bunch of units and go to town. Then adjust force composition for the 2nd try and succeed.

[Horseman]

Quite the contrary.

Devs made a puzzle. Puzzle was solved. Devs decided to change puzzle. Duhhhh.

They get the exact opposite of kudos from me.

Whilst I can agree that changing the puzzle after it was solved is a bit naughty I still think its is well designed and certainly a brain work out, that's what they get kudos for.

And it was already excellent. It was by far the most difficult and fulfilling puzzle. There was not really any need to change it.

After changing it I lost absolutely all enjoyment of these puzzles.

I can certainly agree that it was the hardest - it should have been number 10. Operation X looks scary as hell when it first loads but in reality was not near the same level of hard.

I won't debate on whether they should have changed it or not - as it was difficult before the change I'd lean towards they should have left it as it was but ultimately if it wasn't released as they intended then I understand why they did change it. I certainly won't lose any sleep if they change it back or change any others. (Although I hope they don't change anything else)

[Rudankort]

I've already explained it elsewhere, but to reiterate it here - Double Strike now works the way I designed it. The version which existed before patch 3 was broken by an equipment file change shortly before the release which I did not notice (there were hundreds of changes happening at the time). I agree that the situation is not ideal, and I need to think about how to live with it going forwards. Puzzle genre in general is vulnerable to equipment changes. Perhaps the solution is to "freeze" equipment stats used in a puzzle, so they are not affected by changes in the main file or something... not sure.

As for Operation X, its difficulty lies in the number of options and how easy it is to get lost among them. My idea was to have two "very hard" puzzles which were very different - one is super precise, with each unit doing exactly the intended job, and one very open-ended. But I can see how for people who know the game well and have completed campaign already Op X is not that difficult any more, simply because it is probably much more similar to real play than other puzzles.

[Edmon]

I've already explained it elsewhere, but to reiterate it here - Double Strike now works the way I designed it. The version which existed before patch 3 was broken by an equipment file change shortly before the release which I did not notice (there were hundreds of changes happening at the time). I agree that the situation is not ideal, and I need to think about how to live with it going forwards. Puzzle genre in general is vulnerable to equipment changes. Perhaps the solution is to "freeze" equipment stats used in a puzzle, so they are not affected by changes in the main file or something... not sure.

As for Operation X, its difficulty lies in the number of options and how easy it is to get lost among them. My idea was to have two "very hard" puzzles which were very different - one is super precise, with each unit doing exactly the intended job, and one very open-ended. But I can see how for people who know the game well and have completed campaign already Op X is not that difficult any more, simply because it is probably much more similar to real play than other puzzles.

I very much enjoyed the new "Harder" version of the Double Strike puzzle... it took me a good hour and 45 minutes to work out the solution. It was well made.

I even made a video about it discussing the exploits/strategies that are needed in this puzzle. You can find it here:

https://youtu.be/Ti62h4pLUKQ

Note to everyone else: Obviously, it spoils the solution so avoid the video if you are still trying to solve it.

[Horseman]

I've already explained it elsewhere, but to reiterate it here - Double Strike now works the way I designed it. The version which existed before patch 3 was broken by an equipment file change shortly before the release which I did not notice (there were hundreds of changes happening at the time). I agree that the situation is not ideal, and I need to think about how to live with it going forwards. Puzzle genre in general is vulnerable to equipment changes. Perhaps the solution is to "freeze" equipment stats used in a puzzle, so they are not affected by changes in the main file or something... not sure.

As for Operation X, its difficulty lies in the number of options and how easy it is to get lost among them. My idea was to have two "very hard" puzzles which were very different - one is super precise, with each unit doing exactly the intended job, and one very open-ended. But I can see how for people who know the game well and have completed campaign already Op X is not that difficult any more, simply because it is probably much more similar to real play than other puzzles.

I actually think the puzzles are really well designed.

Most of them include elements of strategy that you should be using in the campaign such as moving recon cars in before attacking with other units (how many times did I forget to do that in the campaign?) Doing this is now burned so deep into my brain following double strike that I'm not sure I'll ever forget

Cat trap - how to use terrain to aid with surrenders.

Operation X - How to break a ridiculous defensive line without oodles of time.

Enemy of my enemy - Read the briefing!

I really liked them and spent the best part of 3 evenings of play solving them all. Thanks for adding them and I wouldn't mind some more Rudankort!

[Rudankort]

I really liked them and spent the best part of 2 evenings of play solving them all. Thanks for adding them and I wouldn't mind some more Rudankort!

In this kind of a game most people go for campaigns and ignore everything else, so it is nice and rewarding to see that some people are playing and enjoying the puzzles. BTW, it must be said that I have not designed all puzzles myself. I have created five of them, three have been contributed by Kerensky, one by Kresimir (the designer of Wehrmacht campaign) and one by Sergey (our QA lead). I think that all four of us have a slightly different approach to designing this kind of content, and this helped to make ten puzzles available in 1.0 more interesting and varied than they would otherwise be.

As for adding more, it's definitely a possibility. Most puzzles were designed around summer last year, when some game mechanics did not exist yet, so we clearly have more rules and mechanics to explore in them. But we always look at people's feedback to determine what to do next, so the more people request expansion of the puzzle section, the faster it can happen.

[Rudankort]

I very much enjoyed the new "Harder" version of the Double Strike puzzle... it took me a good hour and 45 minutes to work out the solution. It was well made.

I even made a video about it discussing the exploits/strategies that are needed in this puzzle.

Yes, this solution is pretty much the intended one. I attack infantry with M26 first to get as much damage as possible on it, but apparently this order is sufficient to get the job of getting rid of it done.

Interface related to move and mount/unmount could use some improvement. I'm thinking about making unmount manual in case mount was manual as well - in that case you can move in transport any distance and keep your attack action if you intend to embark and move away this turn. But it will be useful only in a rare case anyway.

[Horseman]

I very much enjoyed the new "Harder" version of the Double Strike puzzle... it took me a good hour and 45 minutes to work out the solution. It was well made.

I even made a video about it discussing the exploits/strategies that are needed in this puzzle.

Yes, this solution is pretty much the intended one (I attack infantry with M26 first to get as much damage as possible on it, but apparently this order is sufficient to get the job of getting rid of it done.

Interface related to move and mount/unmount could use some improvement. I'm thinking about making unmount manual in case mount was manual as well - in that case you can move in transport any distance and keep your attack action if you intend to embark and move away this turn. But it will be useful only in a rare case anyway.

That would actually be really handy for when the enemy is too far for your infantry to reach on foot and too close to stay mounted in your half tracks!

[CrimsonStorm]

I did notice the dismount issue in this puzzle though so maybe there does need some work to be done on the logic

If I move recon, move infantry, attack with tank and infantry (order doesn't matter) then move arty to town direct down the road 3 hexes I cannot embark as I auto dismount. If I move arty before the infantry are attacked it goes cross country and doesn't have enough movement to dismount so stays in the truck with its attack action, and can therefore embark.

The solution also breaks proper tactical thinking.

Attacking with arty, AT then recon doesn't force a retreat. But attacking with AT then arty then recon does force the retreat, due to the way the suppressions stack and hit already supressed points. This to me is illogical and should not be promoted.

[Rudankort]

The solution also breaks proper tactical thinking.

Attacking with arty, AT then recon doesn't force a retreat. But attacking with AT then arty then recon does force the retreat, due to the way the suppressions stack and hit already supressed points. This to me is illogical and should not be promoted.

It's not like it is being "promoted" intentionally. Last time I tested it, attacking with arty first and AT second forced a retreat along the road which you did not want, so the right sequence was to use AT then arty then recon. I see it is not forcing retreat now, and I have no idea what change in rules or unit stats in particular changed this behavior. Like I said, puzzles are very sensitive to nuances like this. However, probably I better not touch this puzzle any more.

[Edmon]

The solution also breaks proper tactical thinking.

Attacking with arty, AT then recon doesn't force a retreat. But attacking with AT then arty then recon does force the retreat, due to the way the suppressions stack and hit already supressed points. This to me is illogical and should not be promoted.

It's not like it is being "promoted" intentionally. Last time I tested it, attacking with arty first and AT second forced a retreat along the road which you did not want, so the right sequence was to use AT then arty then recon. I see it is not forcing retreat now, and I have no idea what change in rules or unit stats in particular changed this behavior. Like I said, puzzles are very sensitive to nuances like this. However, probably I better not touch this puzzle any more.

Now I've made the solution, please don't touch it XD. Hehehe... XD.

[nexusno2000]

I've already explained it elsewhere, but to reiterate it here - Double Strike now works the way I designed it. The version which existed before patch 3 was broken by an equipment file change shortly before the release which I did not notice (there were hundreds of changes happening at the time). I agree that the situation is not ideal, and I need to think about how to live with it going forwards. Puzzle genre in general is vulnerable to equipment changes. Perhaps the solution is to "freeze" equipment stats used in a puzzle, so they are not affected by changes in the main file or something... not sure.

As for Operation X, its difficulty lies in the number of options and how easy it is to get lost among them. My idea was to have two "very hard" puzzles which were very different - one is super precise, with each unit doing exactly the intended job, and one very open-ended. But I can see how for people who know the game well and have completed campaign already Op X is not that difficult any more, simply because it is probably much more similar to real play than other puzzles.

I have now actually tried the new version.

I have to admit the new version is even smarter.

That said, the old version was pretty smart already.

But I did wonder why you had units that weren't strictly needed.

[SineMora]

Speaking of the tactical puzzles, has anyone tried to do Enemy of my Enemy using the air force? You can obviously push the Soviet tank back onto the last American airfield (that's how I beat it), but I kept wondering if it were possible to use your fighters to cut a path through the American air force to allow your Fallschirmjäger to capture it instead. IIRC they have enough movement to do so, but I gave up on trying as you're limited to three redos before you have to reset it and as I'd already found a solution I wasn't that interested in spending more time on it.

[Kerensky]

Speaking of the tactical puzzles, has anyone tried to do Enemy of my Enemy using the air force? You can obviously push the Soviet tank back onto the last American airfield (that's how I beat it), but I kept wondering if it were possible to use your fighters to cut a path through the American air force to allow your Fallschirmjäger to capture it instead. IIRC they have enough movement to do so, but I gave up on trying as you're limited to three redos before you have to reset it and as I'd already found a solution I wasn't that interested in spending more time on it.

But I did wonder why you had units that weren't strictly needed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring



The gigantic air force is just misdirection. Though sometimes I do use them to bomb and strafe targets I need to clear out on the ground. The real solution is absolutely that extra long retreat move.

[Kerensky]

In this kind of a game most people go for campaigns and ignore everything else, so it is nice and rewarding to see that some people are playing and enjoying the puzzles. BTW, it must be said that I have not designed all puzzles myself. I have created five of them, three have been contributed by Kerensky, one by Kresimir (the designer of Wehrmacht campaign) and one by Sergey (our QA lead). I think that all four of us have a slightly different approach to designing this kind of content, and this helped to make ten puzzles available in 1.0 more interesting and varied than they would otherwise be.

The three I made have very, very subtle clues that link them together.

[nexusno2000]

In this kind of a game most people go for campaigns and ignore everything else, so it is nice and rewarding to see that some people are playing and enjoying the puzzles. BTW, it must be said that I have not designed all puzzles myself. I have created five of them, three have been contributed by Kerensky, one by Kresimir (the designer of Wehrmacht campaign) and one by Sergey (our QA lead). I think that all four of us have a slightly different approach to designing this kind of content, and this helped to make ten puzzles available in 1.0 more interesting and varied than they would otherwise be.

The three I made have very, very subtle clues that link them together.

Very subtle indeed.

Wild guess: Successful Suppress, River Panther, Enemy of My Enemy?

[Horseman]

In this kind of a game most people go for campaigns and ignore everything else, so it is nice and rewarding to see that some people are playing and enjoying the puzzles. BTW, it must be said that I have not designed all puzzles myself. I have created five of them, three have been contributed by Kerensky, one by Kresimir (the designer of Wehrmacht campaign) and one by Sergey (our QA lead). I think that all four of us have a slightly different approach to designing this kind of content, and this helped to make ten puzzles available in 1.0 more interesting and varied than they would otherwise be.

The three I made have very, very subtle clues that link them together.

Very subtle indeed.

Wild guess: Successful Suppress, River Panther, Enemy of My Enemy?

Enemy of my enemy for definate.

Fireworks, I think that's the one where the briefing tells you to basically suicide units. "No cost for success is too high"

Not sure on the third.

[Kerensky]

One of you is 100% right. The other is 33% right.

I did write all of the puzzle briefings though. It was... interesting having to come up with reason after reason for why they only allow 1 single turn.

[Horseman]

One of you is 100% right. The other is 33% right.

I did write all of the puzzle briefings though. It was... interesting having to come up with reason after reason for why they only allow 1 single turn.

Haha depending on your point of view. Can I be 100% right if I've only guessed 2 out of 3? Or can I be 33% right on only two guesses?

Can I add impossible siege on to my guesses!?