Fall Weiss Scenario

[nexusno2000]

I've mentioned (complained) about the Loraine Scenario power and number of the Axis and their ability to make major offensive actions.

Now another - if this is supposed to have any reality I was sure surprised to see what a massive and strong air power Poland has - devastating air attacks against my poor and puny by comparison German air power. Also surprising is the offensive power and size of the polish army.

Once again maybe I'm missing something but I find myself playing more and more random scenarios even with their shortcoming instead of historic ones just to try and have some balance. Since I have the Field Marshall edition I'm also hoping those new DLC's will be much better and realistic than the scenarios (even some in the campaigns) then what is presently available.

I really like the game but hope for better scenarios and campaign material in the future.

I've played all the 'historical' scenarios now, and Fall Weiss is really scraping the barrel.

Tons of armored trains, often suiciding by getting stuck in encirclement. An airforce so big it's beyond laughable. 15 Str tks tanks... with 5 stars... Also 5 star cavalry at 20 str... Facepalm.

Add a most constricting placement of rivers to create artifical obstacles to the player (you get this a lot in other scenarios as well) and you got yourself a massive turd.

If this is what it takes to present the player with a challenge, I feel sad for the future of the game. I also feel sad for anyone that paid extra for this: some horrible scenarios and an incorrect campaign tree.

[Horseman]

I've mentioned (complained) about the Loraine Scenario power and number of the Axis and their ability to make major offensive actions.

Now another - if this is supposed to have any reality I was sure surprised to see what a massive and strong air power Poland has - devastating air attacks against my poor and puny by comparison German air power. Also surprising is the offensive power and size of the polish army.

Once again maybe I'm missing something but I find myself playing more and more random scenarios even with their shortcoming instead of historic ones just to try and have some balance. Since I have the Field Marshall edition I'm also hoping those new DLC's will be much better and realistic than the scenarios (even some in the campaigns) then what is presently available.

I really like the game but hope for better scenarios and campaign material in the future.

I've played all the 'historical' scenarios now, and Fall Weiss is really scraping the barrel.

Tons of armored trains, often suiciding by getting stuck in encirclement. An airforce so big it's beyond laughable. 15 Str tks tanks... with 5 stars... Also 5 star cavalry at 20 str... Facepalm.

Add a most constricting placement of rivers to create artifical obstacles to the player (you get this a lot in other scenarios as well) and you got yourself a massive turd.

If this is what it takes to present the player with a challenge, I feel sad for the future of the game. I also feel sad for anyone that paid extra for this: some horrible scenarios and an incorrect campaign tree.

I can't comment on any of the scenarios as haven't played them yet - but how is the campaign tree incorrect?

[nexusno2000]

It's missing 1 US scenario, and the entry to Rhine is incorrect.

[Horseman]

It's missing 1 US scenario, and the entry to Rhine is incorrect.

So there's 3 US scenarios? Hmm for that to be wrong on the campaign tree is pretty poor!

[Retributarr]

I've mentioned (complained) about the Loraine Scenario power and number of the Axis and their ability to make major offensive actions.

Now another - if this is supposed to have any reality I was sure surprised to see what a massive and strong air power Poland has - devastating air attacks against my poor and puny by comparison German air power. Also surprising is the offensive power and size of the polish army.

Since I have the Field Marshall edition I'm also hoping those new DLC's will be much better and realistic than the scenarios (even some in the campaigns) then what is presently available.

I really like the game but hope for better scenarios and campaign material in the future.

I've played all the 'historical' scenarios now, and Fall Weiss is really scraping the barrel.

Tons of armored trains, often suiciding by getting stuck in encirclement. An airforce so big it's beyond laughable. 15 Str tks tanks... with 5 stars... Also 5 star cavalry at 20 str... Facepalm.

Add a most constricting placement of rivers to create artifical obstacles to the player (you get this a lot in other scenarios as well) and you got yourself a massive turd.

If this is what it takes to present the player with a challenge, I feel sad for the future of the game. I also feel sad for anyone that paid extra for this: some horrible scenarios and an incorrect campaign tree.

Regrettably!.... have to 'Concur' with your distressing assessments gentlemen!. I too am experiencing similar 'head-bangers' myself!... such as at present... I'm in the final phase of 'Operation SeeLowe'... which is the final assault to take 'London'... where the British seem to have an amazing amount of 'Heavy-Tanks' available to them? (All of the British Heavy-Equipment was lost at Dunkerque... wasn't it?)... and also a huge 'Air-Force'. It does seem quite unfair and unrealistic at that!.

However?... there must be a 'Reason'??? for all of these situations?. Perhaps... to make the actual campaigns and campaign outcomes work-out into some semblance of realistic-historical-reality makes these adjustments necessary to implement?.

As for the size of the British 'Air-Force & Naval Assets', perhaps its not too necessarily out of line?. Anyway!... keener minds than mine can find a way to undo this 'Can of Worms'!.

By the way!:... I forgot to mention...

"I was sure surprised to see what a massive and strong air power Poland has:" Just from memory alone... I can only recall that the 'Polish Air Force' was only about 'one-half' the size of the 'German Air Force'.

As for... "Also surprising is the offensive power and size of the polish army:".
???This is where I cannot recall statistics on this particular subject matter... however!... I'm quite sure "never-the-less" that the 'Polish-Army' had quite a good number of troops available... one would need to check this out.

[Kerensky]

I don't think this scenario is that bad. I'd say it's quite average, and above average for being something so large. With such a large map and so many units and deployment opportunities, the scenario has some pretty good replay value. You can easily focus new purchases in a variety of locations, and approach Poland from entirely different directions. On my playthrough I completely ignored East Prussia, and focused all new purchases around Slovakia and South East Germany. I encountered a few tough battles, but nothing insurmountably hard. That special max OS TKS did stall my advance for a very long time. But I see that as a positive, not a negative. I like to see the occasional special enemy unit. What I don't like is an entire board of base strength, base experience enemy forces everywhere. The majority of enemies should indeed be base level. But mix in those special power units here and there... it becomes very memorable and very refreshing.

That TKS stalled my advance in that local area long enough to be memorable. Reminds me of the story of that KV1 at Leningrad, or the Tiger I who took on 50 T34s at Kursk.

The armored trains each have unique names on them as I recall, which probably is why there are so many. To highlight the historical units.
As for the uber Polish Air Force everyone seems to have issue with... I barely noticed them.

That said, I did buy a few extra ME110 to eventually clear the skies (I didn't really feel threatened enough to have to buy dedicated anti-air ME109s).
But, more importantly for my experience probably, I ran into a ton of weather RNG. It frequently rained every other turn in my playthrough, and sometimes it rained so much the ground actually turned into mud.

So I guess my perception of the battle is a little skewed.

[Kerensky]

Regrettably!.... have to 'Concur' with your distressing assessments gentlemen!. I too am experiencing similar 'head-bangers' myself!... such as at present... I'm in the final phase of 'Operation SeeLowe'... which is the final assault to take 'London'... where the British seem to have an amazing amount of 'Heavy-Tanks' available to them? (All of the British Heavy-Equipment was lost at Dunkerque... wasn't it?)... and also a huge 'Air-Force'. It does seem quite unfair and unrealistic at that!.

However?... there must be a 'Reason'??? for all of these situations?. Perhaps... to make the actual campaigns and campaign outcomes work-out into some semblance of realistic-historical-reality makes these adjustments necessary to implement?.

As for the size of the British 'Air-Force & Naval Assets', perhaps its not too necessarily out of line?. Anyway!... keener minds than mine can find a way to undo this 'Can of Worms'!.

Why you would compare a 1940 event (Dunkirk) to a 1943 event (Sea Lion) is somewhat mystifying. Pretty sure British arms industries created quite an arsenal of weapons from 1940 to 1943. They didn't return to Dieppe with Matilda IIs, nor did they land at Normandy with Cruiser IVs.

[elven]

Personally I loved having the bigger map and enjoyed it quite a bit. As for the number of Polish Airforce - they resisted strongly for a week (despite Nazi claims to 3 day wipe out) and still managed to get planes in the air for nearly two weeks. As for the tanks Poland had one of the better tanks (in 39) in Europe and had imported many tanks from France and Britain. They lost far more due to horrible tactics, complete breakdown of communications, and resource management than inferior equipment. As for the armoured trains I was quite surprised to see so many in the scenario but then Poland did field a large amount of them in reality and they did surprising well with only a few being destroyed by the Germans, the rest were destroyed by the Poles themselves when they ran out of ammo or were surrounded.

[Retributarr]

Why you would compare a 1940 event (Dunkirk) to a 1943 event (Sea Lion) is somewhat mystifying. Pretty sure British arms industries created quite an arsenal of weapons from 1940 to 1943. They didn't return to Dieppe with Matilda IIs, nor did they land at Normandy with Cruiser IVs.

Because!... I was in a trans-dimensional time warp... existing in the present time reality... but living it in the past!.

But... I also figured... that once 'France' had come under my control... and that all meaningful allied opposition (British-American & French) had been dealt with... that any further serious resistance was not a meaningful concern.

[nexusno2000]

Personally I loved having the bigger map and enjoyed it quite a bit. As for the number of Polish Airforce - they resisted strongly for a week (despite Nazi claims to 3 day wipe out) and still managed to get planes in the air for nearly two weeks. As for the tanks Poland had one of the better tanks (in 39) in Europe and had imported many tanks from France and Britain. They lost far more due to horrible tactics, complete breakdown of communications, and resource management than inferior equipment. As for the armoured trains I was quite surprised to see so many in the scenario but then Poland did field a large amount of them in reality and they did surprising well with only a few being destroyed by the Germans, the rest were destroyed by the Poles themselves when they ran out of ammo or were surrounded.

Trains are bad because there are too many of them and because the AI handles them horribly.

I've nothing against OS AI units. That's cool. But how did they get 5 stars?

[Kerensky]

Trains are bad because there are too many of them and because the AI handles them horribly.

I've nothing against OS AI units. That's cool. But how did they get 5 stars?

What effect has the latest patch had on their behavior? I noticed improvements directly affecting Defenders of the Reich. I must assume Fall Weiss was also improved.

[nexusno2000]

Oh yes, marked improvement. I think I got to turn 9 then we had the patch, and suddenly AI was escorting bombers and using artillery better. Very nice.

[lotusaurus]

(I realise it's not usually desirable to post in old threads, but I hope this helps people find these other comments on the Fall Weiss Scenario.)

As part of learning the game, I thought I'd try the Fall Weiss scenario. I'm beginning to think that the scenarios are not really "training" games, but more like large-scale tactical challenges. (I'd previously tried the Crete scenario.)

As others have mentioned, the Polish forces are quite a shock in terms of how strong they are. I suspect many players expect scenes of cavalry bravely charging tanks (although I read recently it was not quite like that). To be fair, there is a lot of cavalry vs tanks in the game, but unfortunately it seems like the Polish cavalry are mainly 20 strength 5 star units that happily wipe out my tank units.

The problem is that I'm required to select and purchase my units at the beginning, and I can do a reasonable job at that only if I have an idea of what I'll be up against. Since there's no substantive briefing/intelligence, all I have to go on is what I know of the history of the campaign. When that knowledge turns out to be quite possibly useless and even misleading, then that's a big disadvantage. Someone who knows nothing about Fall Weiss is perhaps in a better position as a player.

The scenario should perhaps be re-positioned as an alt-history scenario where Poland armed itself (very, very substantially) in anticipation of the German invasion. Then at least players will have some idea of what they'll be up against.

[Retributarr]

lotusaurus post[/b]_id=976595 time=1658282059 user_id=350237]

As others have mentioned, the Polish forces are quite a shock in terms of how strong they are. I suspect many players expect scenes of cavalry bravely charging tanks (although I read recently it was not quite like that). To be fair, there is a lot of cavalry vs tanks in the game, but unfortunately it seems like the Polish cavalry are mainly 20 strength 5 star units that happily wipe out my tank units. That 'Cavalry' point of contention... "Irkked" me as well. Horses charging 'Armored Tanks'... is a 'Suicide-Effort'... and yes!... on top of that they cause such tremendous damage to these Tanks!... i would like to know why-that-is-so.

Since there's no substantive briefing/intelligence, all I have to go on is what I know of the history of the campaign. When that knowledge turns out to be quite possibly useless and even misleading, then that's a big disadvantage. Someone who knows nothing about Fall Weiss is perhaps in a better position as a player.

The scenario should perhaps be re-positioned as an alt-history scenario where Poland armed itself (very, very substantially) in anticipation of the German invasion. Then at least players will have some idea of what they'll be up against.

I hear you!... all of you!... but even if your complaints are valid!... it's still better to offer up some alternative solutions... that may better improve the Scenario's. However i do agree with the complaints!... but otherwise... i just recently played the "Fall Weiss Scenario" and found it challenging... but not impossible!. Alternately... maybe they could just put in a 'Sneek-Peek-Cheat-access button' for those who need this 'Heads Up' on the make-up of the 'Opposition'... in order to better prepare... to survive the Scenario's.