'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

[PoorOldSpike]

..it seems that I just suck with defensive scenarios. I'm still unable to sit back and do nothing. There's always the urge to attack and kill something...

I'm just as gung-ho, that's why I lost 'Smolensk' the first time I played it, throwing a big fleet of T-34's at Jerrys advancing spearheads; it went well at first but with only +22 RP's per turn my cash eventually ran out because I couldn't afford to keep pumping replacements into them, and jerry had them for breakfast.
I did better the second time I played it; I still bought a fleet of T-34's but didn't use them as slap-happy as before, and got a win.
I also used rivers a lot in the first half of the game to defend key bridges to let jerry knock himself out against them, then went on the offensive later.
A good piece of advice for newcomers is therefore- "There's a time to defend, and a time to attack, so read the briefing carefully so you'll know what a man's gotta do"..

[CoolDTA]

Easier yes, but it seems that I just suck with defensive scenarios. I'm still unable to sit back and do nothing. There's always the urge to attack and kill something...

My thoughts exactly.

And the German airforce's incredibly strong. Like the early US planes vs. Jap. Zeros. I don't like to deploy AA usually, but here...

And unlike the Zeros almost all German planes have an ace as if being highly experienced and having better stats is not enough. Air war is quit costly in Red Star.

[CoolDTA]

However, once the Finnish armored attack was broken,

Irl this massive armoured attack consisted of five (5) Vickers tanks.

Indeed, I am looking to upgrade them for Barbarossa? I hope so. Fortunately, I was able to space my bombers around so as to keep them relatively healthy and effective.

Yes, you'll have a chance to upgrade your fighters, but though the new planes are better, they are still bad compared to what Luftwaffe fields.

So, while I did suffer from lack of resources in Viipuri, I had enough to get a victory. The two additional BT-7 tanks that I purchased made a difference, as I speculated above.

I really like their incredible speed. Through the snow covered woods they rush while the other units slog one hex per turn.

Good work at Viipuri, but only now will the battles truly begin...

[PoorOldSpike]

I don't believe it, I've just lost standalone Viipuri for the second time by just one turn, it'a a carbon copy of what happened when I played it before!
Look, the battered Finn guy (circled) in the centre of Viipuri is on his last legs at the end of the game and one more turn would have finished him off!




So Viipuri remains the only one of Red Stars 13 scenarios that I haven't managed to win despite playing it twice, and my nanny is furious with me!

[GabeKnight]

Yes, you'll have a chance to upgrade your fighters, but though the new planes are better, they are still bad compared to what Luftwaffe fields.

Barely believed it, and I don't think it ever happened before, but "Smolensk" was the only scen that I did not have air superiority throughout and, most importantly, in the end. I've run out of money and had my whole airforce grounded for the last third or so of the mission.

Next time I'll probably field dogfighters only in this scen.

[CoolDTA]

So Viipuri remains the only one of Red Stars 13 scenarios that I haven't managed to win despite playing it twice, and my nanny is furious with me!

Well, it is the Finns you are facing, so I'm sure nanny understands. Maybe. Or else...

Barely believed it, and I don't think it ever happened before, but "Smolensk" was the only scen that I did not have air superiority throughout and, most importantly, in the end. I've run out of money and had my whole airforce grounded for the last third or so of the mission.

If that happens to you, then it tells much of the furious air battles. It is indeed often better to field (dog)fighters only.

[bru888]

Cool, I'm using two quotes from you but in reverse order:

Cool: "Good work at Viipuri, but only now will the battles truly begin... "

Bru: "My thoughts exactly. "

Because I took an advance peek at Barbarossa and I don't like what I see. First of all, I continue to suffer from a dearth of resources thanks to the debacle at Summa 40. I need resources to repair my units and upgrade my tanks and fighters. I think I worked out a way to accomplish most of that but it leads to me again having a low balance in the resource bank. I don't like the looks of this. At least my heavy infantry units will come in handy in this scenario, I think.

[bru888]

I don't believe it, I've just lost standalone Viipuri for the second time by just one turn, it'a a carbon copy of what happened when I played it before!

Spike, have you bombers and artillery to soften up the enemy before attacking? You have plenty of tanks but I see only that aux popgun that the designer gives you. I owe a lot to these two guns and two bombers:

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I'm referring to strategic bombers, of course, and the artillery better have transportation because otherwise it's useless in these scenarios.

[PoorOldSpike]

Spike, have you bombers and artillery to soften up the enemy before attacking? You have plenty of tanks but I see only that aux popgun that the designer gives you. I owe a lot to these two guns and two bombers:
I'm referring to strategic bombers, of course, and the artillery better have transportation because otherwise it's useless in these scenarios.

There are two 'Viipuri' scens in OOB, the June 1944 one in Winter War (human Finns defending against Russian AI), and the March 1940 one in Red Star (human Russian attacking AI Finns), sorry if I didn't make it clear that it was the Red Star one I was talking about in my screenshot.
The only free planes I got were a recon biplane and 2x I-16 fighters.
As for the tanks I bought, they were 7x BT-7A's which can be switched to artillery mode (3 hex range) when the tactical situation demands it, and all of them in my screenshot were bombarding the Finnish guy in Viipuri, that's why his efficiency turned red...

[bru888]

There are two 'Viipuri' scens in OOB, the June 1944 one in Winter War (human Finns defending against Russian AI), and the March 1940 one in Red Star (human Russian attacking AI Finns), sorry if I didn't make it clear that it was the Red Star one I was talking about in my screenshot.
The only free planes I got were a recon biplane and 2x I-16 fighters.
As for the tanks I bought, they were 7x BT-7A's which can be switched to artillery mode (3 hex range) when the tactical situation demands it, and all of them in my screenshot were bombarding the Finnish guy in Viipuri, that's why his efficiency turned red...

Yes, of course we are all talking about Red Star's Viipuri in this 'Tovarish' thread. And I am talking about purchased, core unit bombers and artillery. Regarding the BT-7A's, my artillery has 50% more shock value than they possess:

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But your BT-7A's move a heck of a lot faster than my artillery, so there's a tradeoff. Still, with wheels, I was able to get my guns into play in every crucial situation (getting one to Viipuri took a while, but he did get there in time).

So it's a tradeoff; there's no "best" way to play OOB thanks to its complexity and variability. You know what they say, Spike: "The third time is the charm!"

[PoorOldSpike]

..Yes, of course we are all talking about Red Star's Viipuri in this 'Tovarish' thread.
So it's a tradeoff; there's no "best" way to play OOB thanks to its complexity and variability"...

Yes we all have our own unit purchase preferences, personally I just toss into the cauldron whatever units I think I'll need and hope for the best..

https://youtu.be/lOdPODpJ_hA

[bru888]

Raseiniai

Crap. Upgrading four heavy infantry units (it is a defensive battle), purchasing two MIG-3 fighters, upgrading one(!) BT-7 tank to a KV-1, and some other repairs have wiped out my meager resource points bank account. This is not going to be good.

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[CoolDTA]

Crap. Upgrading four heavy infantry units (it is a defensive battle), purchasing two MIG-3 fighters, upgrading one(!) BT-7 tank to a KV-1, and some other repairs have wiped out my meager resource points bank account. This is not going to be good.

Reading the above and considering what I had at the beginning of this scenario, I can only stand in awe of your bravery, sir. Best of luck for the battle!

[MarechalJoffre]

I'm kinda surprised that people are having difficulty with Viipuri scenario. It is easy, just keep in mind not to spam tanks and maintain a healthy mix of forces. Combined arms warfare is always good for you! Especially those heavy hitting 122-152mm Soviet artillery pieces.

Here's my result on difficulty 4, still got a couple turns left.

[PoorOldSpike]

I'm kinda surprised that people are having difficulty with Viipuri scenario. It is easy, just keep in mind not to spam tanks and maintain a healthy mix of forces. Combined arms warfare is always good for you! Especially those heavy hitting 122-152mm Soviet artillery pieces.

My excuse for losing twice is that I misjudged how long it'd take me to get from the two captured objectives at the bottom right of the map all the way up to Viipuri at top left.
You'd think that moving on roads through forests wouldn't slow units down, but it does and is unrealistic, so I'd like to put this on a wishlist - "Terrain should have no slowing effect on units moving into terrain along roads"..

[Andy2012]

Okay, I guess I fell a bit behind in posting. So now I'll have to catch up.

Summa - Finnish counterattack. This one is tricky if you dont play to the Soviet strengths. The Finns are nimble and their infantry is better than yours. But they dont have tanks and heavy arty.
So, buy heavy artillery and post them near the two northern deployment zones. Rely on tanks, especially the flame versions. Try to save the aux infantry.
Avoid elite replacements, except for fighters. Group attack the Finnish fighter ace, rotate and repair damaged fighters. It will take time.
You get arty in the south, leave it there. And keep in mind to destroy 15 infantry units, pushing them back is not sufficient to win.

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[Andy2012]

Assault on the Mannerheim Line.
This is a siege mission with a twist. You need to divide your forces at first and just nibble at the Mannerheim line a bit, especially the mine fields. Rotate shellshocked and or damaged units to the rear, let them recover in forests.
Meanwhile, hit the primary and secondary targets outside the fortified line. Once these are secure (the southern secondary is really far off, let the aux strat bombers help you. This way, they stay away from the Finnish airforce).
Once everything is secure outside the Mannerheim line (and you have taken out maybe a wooden bunker or two in the northern part), move everything north and hit them hard. Concentrate fire on one bunker, first arty, then engineers or flame tanks, then finish them off. Key here is not to get distracted or to divide your forces too much when trying to do all at once. Babysteps, guys.

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[Andy2012]

Assault on Viipurii.
Once again, the major obstacle here is the difficult terrain and the Finnish ski troops flanking you.
I chose to ignore the western, direct approach to Viipurii and instead push over the central and eastern approaches, taking the secondaries on the way.
The Finnish tank force is not a big deal if you bring some AT and hit them with your tac bombers. The Finns have a pretty strong airforce, so rotate your fighters and repair them.
Careful, the Finns counterattack from the north towards the northern secondary objective with ski troops. Push them back with tanks.
Viipurii itself is not difficult to take. Bring your arty in position for concentrated fire before the final assault, beware of hidden AT.
Well, after this is over, it is going to be smooth sailing for the Red Army and the Soviet Union. Comrade Stalin will undoubtedly rely on his tested battle commanders and treat them with the respect they deserve while the Wehrmacht is occupied with England. Time to relax.

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[PoorOldSpike]

Oh no I've just lost Viipuri for the 3rd- repeat 3rd- time and nanny is very cross indeed!
Here's the endgame shot of downtown Viipuri city, the Finnish guy refuses to be intimidated despite being pressured by my wall of steel in the form of HE-chucking BT-7A's!




Below: This is the strategy I used in all 3 failed attempts, two thrustlines in the southeast to take the two objs (blue circles) down there, then swinging northwest along the soft forest-free main road to Viipuri and its blue circle.
I'll have to seriously rethink my strategy for attempt number 4.
For the record I've won 12 of Red Stars 13 scenarios but can't seem to crack Viipuri (sniffle)

[CoolDTA]

Comrade Stalin will undoubtedly rely on his tested battle commanders and treat them with the respect they deserve while the Wehrmacht is occupied with England. Time to relax.

Indeed.

Thanks for reports, Andy!