Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

[McGuba]

Couple of comments,

The fuel penalty is rough but justifiable. Little less than -5 per turn might be better. And I wish it would not go into negative side.

Still thinking wheter to reduce the -5 fuel penalty at all. The loss of the Ploiesti oil fields in late August 1944 proved to be decisive. The failure of the two last German offensives, the Ardennes and Spring Awakening, were both largely due to the lack of fuel, and interestingly, both were aimed at capturing at least some oil deposits or oil fields.

For example:

During the build-up for the (Ardennes) offensive, the OKW would restructure units from motorized to horse-drawn or bicycle or walking due to lack of fuel.

from "Failure Of German Logistics During The German Ardennes Offensive Of 1944"

Which is a valid tactic in the mod as well. Somewhat paradoxically, if loosing the last oil field, motorized transports should be removed from infantry and artillery units to preserve their mobility to some extent. Movement of tanks should be minimized and rail transport should be used whenever possible:

In mid-August, weekly rail loading by the Reichsbahn was almost 900,000 cars. This is significant since many of the units and most of the supplies for the Ardennes Offensive would be moved by rail to the built-up area.

By the way the same book claims:

In 1943, Germany's oil production was slightly more than six million tons: 25 percent form Germany, Austria, Poland, Alsace, and 25 percent from the eighteen synthetic oil production plants... these (synthetic) plants provided over 80 percent of the aviation fuel. Germany received the remaining 50 percent of oil from the Ploesti oil fields in Romania.

Which can also explain why the air units are not affected by the loss of the oil fields.

When I meant Stalingrad it was not exactly because of the city importance per se, it was more because I think the main soviet oil supply line from the Caucasus came from the Volga, passing through that city. For the Germans, they would have just to set foot on one side of the river to cut that line, they actually didn't had to take that city. Yet, as you know, Hitler didn't saw things that way, so the battle developed the way it did, and it was quite a mistake of the Germans.

But since we're talking about a game, to make things simplier to the players, I think just taking the city of Stalingrad would better represent the movement of cutting those Soviet oil supplies I'm talking about. Of course the Soviet would have made use of some other route, like ships in the Caspian Sea, for example. But I personally don't think they would have the logistics to keep up a operation like this as it was before, with the trains and the barks.

Yeah, so after some juggling, I managed to issue a (partial) AI zone to the city of Stalingrad. (By the way, the same zone is already being used for the Stalingrad counter offensive units to Kursk and for German unit positions to encircle Kiev. Hopefully, it will not cause unwanted side-effects. )

So, yes, basically as described, in the next version the possible capture of Stalingrad will reduce the maximum number of new Soviet reinforcements, but not as much as the capture of both of the Caucasus oil fields. Some of the oil could have been transported in alternative routes, if not all:

Wiki:
Transportation of oil and oil products from Baku to petroleum storage depots and to oil refineries of various regions of the country was implemented through the sea and then by railway roads. In July of the same year navigation in the Volga was stopped because of entrance of German troops to Volgograd (Stalingrad). The main railway roads along which oil and oil products were sent from Baku to the front were blocked by German troops. German-fascist troops were at the gates of the Caucasus, they tended to Baku petroleum and Baku itself was under threat of war. As the direct road for oil transportation was blocked, a new way for transportation of oil products to Stalingrad had to be found. It was decided to send oil products through the only way through Krasnovodsk, and then through the railway road of Middle Asia and Kazakhstan to Stalingrad. But there was not enough amount of cisterns in the railway road of Middle Asia for transportation of oil. And then Baku administration of the sector had a risky solution for that: to send cisterns of oil products afloat by tugs to Krasnovodsk along the sea and then to transport then to railway road.

In September, 1942 a military situation was announced in the South Caucasus and situation in Baku became critical. Only 1,6 million tones of oil was sent instead of 6 million tones till the end of navigation. Special oil wells, into which were pumped hundred thousand tones of topped oil, were allocated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaija ... rld_War_II

- so even the advance of the Wehrmacht on Stalingrad in July 1942 triggered a makeshift solution of transporting the oil to the country in a less effective alternative route. Over time, if Stalingrad was to be held longer by the Germans, it could have become more and more effective. And the Western Allies could have sent more oil as well.

Hello McGuba,

I am a newcomer with PzC and after some time playing Allied Corps campaign and MP matches, now I am wondering about "Mods". I have followed your installation instructions but I am not sure what is expected to start a new game. Only way I have got to start is loading one of four saved game files and optionally restarting. By the by your Mod looks absolutely awesome!!

Could you help me with starting new scenario or campaign?

Greetings.

If you did everything correctly, you should be able to start a new campaign in the same way as if you would do with the unmodded game. Just click on NEW GAME in the main screen and choose whichever year you want to start the war. Especially for first time players, Poland 1939 is recommended.

[Brontoburguer]

Awesome, McGuba! So, aiming to Stalingrad directly in the beginning of the campaign have more relevance now?

But, let me ask you, the problem with changing the AI zones is that the enemy can't coordenate their strategic movements? By the way, I don't know very well what AI zones are, I guess. They aren't exactly like the objective cities the Axis had to take back in the old Panzer General, right?

In the matter of oil we're talking about, you're quite right about the route going more effective, but don't you think that holding Stalingrad and somehow advancing towards Astrakhan wouldn't at least hold the major Soviet offensives of 43-44 and give the Germans a bit more time?

And even, if they could make a standstill in the area, I think it could have given the Germans a better chance to reinforce Rommel's forces in North Afrika as well, since a Operation Blue aimed only to the north part would compromise less material. Some people says that if Rommel could have counted with a bit more of aviation and other forces also, he could size the Suez Channel for real. Without the Suez Channel it certainly would be more difficult for the British and the Allied in general to supply the Soviet.

Talking about closing the Allied network, is it possible for us to have Operation Silver Fox added in a future version as well?

Thanks for the answer! My best regards, Brontoburguer!

[Ceek]

Still thinking wheter to reduce the -5 fuel penalty at all. The loss of the Ploiesti oil fields in late August 1944 proved to be decisive. The failure of the two last German offensives, the Ardennes and Spring Awakening, were both largely due to the lack of fuel, and interestingly, both were aimed at capturing at least some oil deposits or oil fields.

I am not disagreeing on the significance of the loss of the oil fields, but of the mechanic of its implementation in the mod. I do not think assigning a penalty that the game engine is unable to properly calculate (i.e., fuel counters running less than zero) makes sense. Moreover, it just makes playing the mod post-Ploesti frustrating and unfun (who wants to spend their time calculating hexes and fuel count for each move of each unit?). If you insist on keeping the penalty as implemented, then I'd at least advocate for a more gradual approach than is currently modeled. I also think explaining to the player the importance of keeping Ploesti would make sense (maybe through a warning that is triggered when the Russians approach the "border"?). As it is, I'd rather lose Berlin than Ploesti!

[McGuba]

A possible (partial) solution might be that the penalty would only occur in every second turn. Then, in those turns when it does not happen units would get their automatic resupply if the player does not move them. (Unless there are enemy units nearby...) It is the only alternative that I might be able to do in the current game mechanic. However, in that case the average per turn penalty would reduce to 2.5 fuel unit, which might be too light. Unless I increase the penalty to 6, 8 or 10 in every two turns.

I also think explaining to the player the importance of keeping Ploesti would make sense (maybe through a warning that is triggered when the Russians approach the "border"?).

Yes, it is possible, but I think it would be too late. And I have no available AI zones to add an extended "danger zone" in which the message would appear if the SU units reach it.

As it is, I'd rather lose Berlin than Ploesti!

Actually, however weird it sounds, the Germans had more or less the same opinion as in spring 1945, instead of concentrating all the elite SS Panzer units with their shiny new King Tigers and Panthers for the defence of Berlin, they wasted these last invaluable resources in the ill-fated Spring Awakening offensive which aimed to retake at least some of the much less significant oil fields within reach in South Hungary, with the possible (but largely unrealistic) option to continue the offensive to retake Ploesti as well. It indicates quite well how desperate the oil situation was in the final stage of the war and I just wanted to better simulate it.

[Brontoburguer]

Still thinking wheter to reduce the -5 fuel penalty at all. The loss of the Ploiesti oil fields in late August 1944 proved to be decisive. The failure of the two last German offensives, the Ardennes and Spring Awakening, were both largely due to the lack of fuel, and interestingly, both were aimed at capturing at least some oil deposits or oil fields.

I am not disagreeing on the significance of the loss of the oil fields, but of the mechanic of its implementation in the mod. I do not think assigning a penalty that the game engine is unable to properly calculate (i.e., fuel counters running less than zero) makes sense. Moreover, it just makes playing the mod post-Ploesti frustrating and unfun (who wants to spend their time calculating hexes and fuel count for each move of each unit?). If you insist on keeping the penalty as implemented, then I'd at least advocate for a more gradual approach than is currently modeled. I also think explaining to the player the importance of keeping Ploesti would make sense (maybe through a warning that is triggered when the Russians approach the "border"?). As it is, I'd rather lose Berlin than Ploesti!

Certainly, in therms of modern warfare, Ploesti would be more important than Berlin. Starting a campaign in 44 you can't do almost nothing about it besides watch. It's a lost game. The last chance the Germans had to keep the war up a bit more was before Operation Citatel. After that Kaputt.

[empedocles]

Hi guys. I'm back for another run at this awesome mod. This time I changed my strategy as I decided to first defeat England and then move on against the russians.
Some thoughts:

- Invading England succesfully depends pretty much on luck and on air superiority. I tried to invade during the first Winter and failed miserably as I couldn't stop the Royal Navy from encircling my tropos and wreak havoc appong my transport units. On a second run I waitied till March 1942 and was able to succesfully conquer Britain! They surrendered on turn 41.
-Note that I didn't attack the russian airforce on the ground. However, I didn't feel they put much a fight later in the game.
-Back in the west, I was able to destroy the american army and navy and will probably destroy Monty's army soon. I had to retreat all the way back to Tunis to accomplish this.
-In fact, I was also able to slowly advance trhough Russia up till Minsk while waiting for the first troops transfer from the west.
-I loved the Finish army, I was able to clear my way trhough Arkangehlsk using lot of patience moves.
-Barbarrossa finally began on March 1943 at which time I got much of the messages from 1941 at that time. One thing that looks like a bug is the fact that I got the Winter penalty of -1 in March 1943!
-I aimed at Leningrand and the caucasus, leaving Moscow for the last.
-So far, I'm on turn 63 and I am slowly starting to despair. Leningrand has just fallen (it's January 1944 already!) but I see a massive/monumental/colosal build up of T34 around Kursk and Smolenks. I have very few units to counter these.
-In addition to that, I am making small progress on the Don área which took me wayy too much to be able to cross it (in fact, I had to wait for the river to freeze). Now I am moving into the Caucasus mountain but I have failed to take a single "C" objective on the field.
-The russian air forcé is mighty but I may be winning the upper hand as I am slowly transferring aircraft to the east.

all in all, awesome mod. I thought that Russia would be much easier after moving my west army into the Ostfront but it isn't. In fact I am starting to wonder if I should have made a rush to Moscow in 1941 and hold the line there. Probably the way that most germans felt back in the 40's.

Thanks again for this awesome mod.

[empedocles]

Update on turn 83:

-I am utterly lost. The soviet forces were simply too many in the center and northern fronts so I had to content myself with tactical withdrwans. No matter how many units I destroy, they keep coming.
-I am about to loose leningrad and Kiev. I managed to get a corridor through the dnieper into the caucasus mountains which I conquered 10 turns ago. I decided to make a gamble through the Caucasus into Irak but I am falling short of time.
-Finland has surrendered.
-The americans are no more and In north africa I am about to break through El Alamein. Unfortunately, there is no way I can advance into Siria.
-I will continue fihgting hoping the russians do not reach Prussia, but I am not sure I'll be able.

Again, great mod, no matter how many times I play it, I keep loosing.

[McGuba]

-Barbarrossa finally began on March 1943 at which time I got much of the messages from 1941 at that time. One thing that looks like a bug is the fact that I got the Winter penalty of -1 in March 1943!

Good catch for the "winter" penalty in March 1943. I will fix it in the next version. By any chance, do you remember what other inapropriate messages you had?

-The americans are no more and In north africa I am about to break through El Alamein. Unfortunately, there is no way I can advance into Siria.

Yes, unfortunately it seems like you are running out of time to fully defeat the British. Probably you should have risked a landing in Syria/Palestina in 1942/43, maybe after the capture of England the latest. However, at least you could conquer Britain which means you did not have to worry about the Allied air offensive in the west and their invasion of France. In order to stop or at least slow down the Red Army you should transfer all available forces to the east, I guess. Also, try to purchase and deploy cheap but farily effective units like Hetzers or towed AT guns in numbers and entrech infantry in cities. If you have the Caucasus oil fields and Tunesia, Rome, Paris, etc, you should have a decent flow of prestige in each turn to allow it. Also, you can count on some late war help like some gift Volkssturm units.

[empedocles]

Good catch for the "winter" penalty in March 1943. I will fix it in the next version. By any chance, do you remember what other inapropriate messages you had?

mmm. One bug I found was the following.
Scottish partisans retook Edimbrugh and the next turns I see a swarm of bombers invade germany and france. When I say swarm, I mean dozens. This happened 2 years after I defeated the Brithish in England.

Also, I didn't understood why Finland quit the war. Maybe one message with a warning would have helped me to prepare for the dissapearence of their units.

One thing weird I noticed was the message saying that we shall not let the soviet invade germany. It was a warning message saying tan the Eastern horde was due to advance west, which is true, but at that time I was still fighting in Leningrad, Minsk, Kiev and Rostov. Felt pretty much an exxageration at that time.

-The americans are no more and In north africa I am about to break through El Alamein. Unfortunately, there is no way I can advance into Siria.

[empedocles]

Hi again!

After 99 turns the game is finished. And so I am.

Although I managed to hold the soviets outside of Eastern Prussia I was only lucky and for the last 10 turns I spent all my prestige in creating new units that severd as cannonfodder there. No chance of retaking the initiative.
On the central sector I was more or less matched with the russians. Their lines ended up west of Brest Litsovek.
On the southern sector the dam was cracked open and the reds started pouring into Rumania.

The Brittish proved to be an easier foe and Irak is all mine while at the same time my panzers are at the gate of Jerusalem. Probably, if the game lasted 15 turns more, I would have been able to conquer Palestine and Syria.

The prestige situation was very good at the end but not enough to counter the east front casualties.

I probably should have focused only on the brits and only fight a defensive war with the russians.

Thanks for the ride!

[AfrikaKorpsSoldat]

Any chance of a Multiplayer balanced version coming out soon? I really like this map. It's bigger than the other 1941 map and it looks like it would be fun if it was a little more balanced.

[McGuba]

mmm. One bug I found was the following.
Scottish partisans retook Edimbrugh and the next turns I see a swarm of bombers invade germany and france. When I say swarm, I mean dozens. This happened 2 years after I defeated the Brithish in England.

Which is indeed a bug. There should be a few long range US air units spawning as overseas aid in case the British partisans can retake some areas, but certainly not dozens. Will fix it in the next version.

Also, I didn't understood why Finland quit the war. Maybe one message with a warning would have helped me to prepare for the dissapearence of their units.

Historically Finland quit the war in Sept 1944 as they realized that the Axis cannot win the war against the USSR and they wanted to avoid further losses and/or Soviet occupation. Luckily for them, the main focus of the Soviets was the capture of Berlin and Eastern Europe, in which they were in a race with the Western Allies, so they agreed to the armisitice on their terms. In the mod this event is simulated in a way that if the Axis does not hold Moscow and Leningrad in fall 1944, the Finns will quit as it means that the situation in the east is not very good and an Axis victory over the SU by turn 99 is unlikely.

There is no warning message in this or in any other case before an ally of Germany decides to quit as historically these were also unexpected events and usually led to serious German shock and losses. Countries rarely warn their allies before they betray them.

One thing weird I noticed was the message saying that we shall not let the soviet invade germany. It was a warning message saying tan the Eastern horde was due to advance west, which is true, but at that time I was still fighting in Leningrad, Minsk, Kiev and Rostov. Felt pretty much an exxageration at that time.

Actually this warning message proved to be right, as you were forced to withdraw in the end, if I am right. This message comes up if the Soviets still have a number of victory objectives at that late date and thus they are likely to take back the initiative and go on the offensive. It might be a bit early, though, but in order to prepare for it, it has to be, I guess.

After 99 turns the game is finished. And so I am.

So I guess you made a draw in the end. Which is indeed a nice achievement as historically the Axis was totally defeated. I agree that a bit more focus on the Brits and a bit less on the Soviets could have changed the result. Maybe next time.

Any chance of a Multiplayer balanced version coming out soon? I really like this map. It's bigger than the other 1941 map and it looks like it would be fun if it was a little more balanced.

Yes, I have been planning that for a time and I am fully aware that currently it is very unbalanced in favour of the Allies and as such not suitable for multiplay. But, after all the Allies outproduced the Axis at least 3-4 times in just about everything so this is how it should be. However, in the next version I intend to make it more accessible to average and casual players by providing two downgraded alternative scenarios and the easiest one might be good for multiplayer mode as well. But I will also need to check the in game messages as at the moment they only appear to the Axis player. I have to make sure that some messages appear to the Allied player too, and some game mechanics like encirclements have to be changed as well.

[VanBishop]

McGuba,

this is not a mod, this is a masterpiece.

Seriously, you have given PC a new lease on life, at least to me. Having played and won on Mainstein each and every DLC I did NOT find this one TOO hard, but a strong challenge, as it has to be (I played on general as suggested).
I avoided tricks like “fighter trap” or “future knowledge” (as in moving valuable units away from the east before wintertime, or moving towards Tunisia early on).

My approach was quite simple:
1) Move units around (move stuff to the frontline, defend Lybia rather than sieging Tobruk, move all anti-aircraft from everywhere but Africa to France / Benelux)
2) Get Moscow by the end of November 41
3) Setup a defensive line from the outskirts of Leningrad to Crimea
4) Avoid Crimea (but take Odessa)
5) Move my best 3 tanks, 3 elite infantry (jager, engineer, grenadier) and 2 Italian artilleries to France, to get ready for Sea Lion.
6) Hold the line in Russia till Spring
7) Start British invasion before the end of the winter (to take advantage of the lack of air action)

As all that worked as planned, in 1942 I had four main objectives
1) Get Leningrad, moving SIX heavy artilleries there
2) Get Caucasus (the idea here was then to go South to the Middle East, but that failed)
3) Get Tobruk and Alexandria and hold the line on the Suez Canal (that partially failed and I had to hold the line just outside of Cairo)
4) Slowly gain terrain in Great Britain (now strengthened by all the best aircraft – I did lose air supremacy in the East and soldiered on)

Most of that worked, but I had to move units from the Caucasus to Kursk rather than hitting the Middle East as the pressure there was becoming too strong. At the end of the year Scotland was still British, I held Stalingrad and Moscow and the Caucasus.

In 1943 the plan was to:
- Get Stalingrad (from the south, arriving from the Caucasus)
- Start to push for the northern Russian objectives, north of the river (pretty much avoiding anything in between Kursk and Stalingrad)
- Complete British Conquest
- Get Gibraltar and Malta while holding against the Americans in Tunisia.
All that went surprisingly well, I did also reconquer the entirety of Algeria and Maroq.

For 1944 the objective was to end the war so
- Get the remaining objectives in Russia
- Get the Middle East

Kuwait was the very last stand of the British on turn 87.

So, my comments, for what they are worth.

Overall it truly felt like a campaign, I would have never thought Panzer Corps could do that, so, amazing work! Even the AI felt a little smarter than usual, the offensive at Kursk and the defence of Egypt were actually excellent.

So, the pet peeves.

a) Line of sight.
A bunker on the English shore can actually see what is going on in Paris. I know it’s a matter of scale, but that’s too much. Same for submarines. A submarine around Sicily can detect a Tac Bomber in the Adriatic Sea, that’s too powerful. My take would be to limit LOS to two exes. That’s 50/70 Kms after all.

b) Partisans.
The annoying commandos are absolutely fine. More of those! But I have destroyed over 40 partisans divisions in the Balkans only, most of them with a star. That’s over a million soldiers, fully armed and well-trained. That’s too much and a-historical. 2 divisions, in 1944, in Yugoslavia would be enough. Anywhere else, just commandos with no experience.

c) Mines.
I understand they are modelled after submarines, but, no, a mine cannot evade, it’s quite static by default 

Possible ideas, not sure if they can be implemented:
- Russians should not get rugged defence at least for the first month
- Allied bombers should have some fighters with them. I managed to keep them at bay just by placing recon planes on top of German cities
- The Italian tank sent to Russia (appears in Rumania) should have a hero (Giovanni Messe, +1 Def, +1 Mov).

That’s all, and thanks again for this mod!

[hugh2711]

from previous post:
"McGuba,

this is not a mod, this is a masterpiece. "

YES, I woud have to agree!!!

[McGuba]

McGuba,

this is not a mod, this is a masterpiece.

Hi, and thanks.

Seriously, you have given PC a new lease on life, at least to me. Having played and won on Mainstein each and every DLC I did NOT find this one TOO hard, but a strong challenge, as it has to be (I played on general as suggested).

For even more challange you can try to beat it on Rommel or by loading one of the saved games in which you can take over at a later historical stage, such as Stalingrad or Kursk. Obviously, the later you start, the harder it is to achieve any kind of victory or even a draw.

Or just wait a few more weeks for the coming v1.9.

Even the AI felt a little smarter than usual, the offensive at Kursk and the defence of Egypt were actually excellent.

Over time I have added a large number of scripts to make the AI "smarter". These are aimed to make it more responsive to the different strategies of the players. What I could not really do is to increase its tactical skills because the hard coded nature of AI behaviour.

a) Line of sight.
A bunker on the English shore can actually see what is going on in Paris. I know it’s a matter of scale, but that’s too much. Same for submarines. A submarine around Sicily can detect a Tac Bomber in the Adriatic Sea, that’s too powerful. My take would be to limit LOS to two exes. That’s 50/70 Kms after all.

There is some level of abstraction here. Due to the large scale, a bunker or fort unit in this mod does not only represent a simple, or even a number of bunkers, but a whole fortified area. Such a fortified area can send out scout parties, observation balloons, possibly even small recon planes, and might have a good relationship with the local population and the partisans. It all means invaluable information. Therefore it should have a better situational awareness and control of the surrounding area than a standard field unit.

Pretty much the same goes for submarines and other units. A submarine unit represents a flotilla (or a wolfpack) of approximately 20 U-boats/submarines, which can spread out in a larger area and not only concentrated in the hex where the unit actually is. Therefore they can cover/scout a larger area around them.

At least that's the gameplay perspective explanation. The technical explanation is that I noticed that the AI is more capable if it can "see" more. Thus I have increased the spotting of many units, which is partially the reason why you felt that the AI is "a little smarter than usual" at the tactical level.

b) Partisans.
The annoying commandos are absolutely fine. More of those! But I have destroyed over 40 partisans divisions in the Balkans only, most of them with a star. That’s over a million soldiers, fully armed and well-trained.

Actually the Yugoslav partisans were quite numerous. And according to Yugoslav sources they suffered some 700,000 losses between 1941-45. Which is quite close to the one million that you calculated. And despite these losses, they were not defeated, but became victorious. Most likely it would have required even more, maybe well over a million casualties caused to fully defeat them.

That’s too much and a-historical. 2 divisions, in 1944, in Yugoslavia would be enough. Anywhere else, just commandos with no experience.

In fact by late 1944 there some 650,000 Yugoslav partisans, which is many times more than just 2 divisions.

"By late 1944, the total forces of the Partisans numbered 650,000 men and women organized in four field armies and 52 divisions, which engaged in conventional warfare.[22] By April 1945, the Partisans numbered over 800,000."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_ ... Casualties

c) Mines.
I understand they are modelled after submarines, but, no, a mine cannot evade, it’s quite static by default

In this case it does not really mean "evade" but rather an unsuccessful mine clearing run. This mechanic is hard coded and cannot be modified, anyway.

Possible ideas, not sure if they can be implemented:
- Russians should not get rugged defence at least for the first month

Not possible, hard coded mechanic.

- Allied bombers should have some fighters with them. I managed to keep them at bay just by placing recon planes on top of German cities

As far as I understand, you have managed to complete the invasion of Britain in 1943. Which means you did it before the long range escort fighters historically appeared in early 1944. Historically the American bombers suffered very heavy losses in 1943, and British bomber crews had less than one in three chance to survive the war. The appearence of the long range P-51 Mustang, which could follow the bombers to Berlin and back, had a huge impact. If you want to experience the real horror of the late war years just try the 1943 or 1944 save game to start.

- The Italian tank sent to Russia (appears in Rumania) should have a hero (Giovanni Messe, +1 Def, +1 Mov)

I did not know about this guy, but will check it out, thanks. There will be some more historical heroes in v1.9, anyway.

[VanBishop]

Hi, and thanks.

It's an honor, Sir!

For even more challange you can try to beat it on Rommel or by loading one of the saved games in which you can take over at a later historical stage, such as Stalingrad or Kursk. Obviously, the later you start, the harder it is to achieve any kind of victory or even a draw.

I don't like a challenge per se, I enjoy historical accuracy! And miss out the joy of playing the previous scenarios? forget about it

What I could not really do is to increase its tactical skills because the hard coded nature of AI behaviour.

I have seen that happening. The suicidal counterattacks to retake Moscow. The blind charge of Patton's army in Tunisia.

A submarine unit represents a flotilla (or a wolfpack) of approximately 20 U-boats/submarines, which can spread out in a larger area and not only concentrated in the hex where the unit actually is. Therefore they can cover/scout a larger area around them.

I still can't see a submarine spotting airplanes in an airfield, across a mountain chain, but I guess it's for the greater good

Actually the Yugoslav partisans were quite numerous. And according to Yugoslav sources they suffered some 700,000 losses between 1941-45. Which is quite close to the one million that you calculated. And despite these losses, they were not defeated, but became victorious. Most likely it would have required even more, maybe well over a million casualties caused to fully defeat them.

I stand corrected, to my defense I can say that I meant to write 2 divisions in 1941 rather than 44, which, by the way is what your source says. Also, I killed 40 divisions between September 41 till the end of 43, and a few more in early 44, but, according to the wiki roughly 200k got killed/wounded by the end of 43 (including 1940 and 9 months of 41), and 200k more were still active. So, as far I can see, it's still at least twice as many. Most partisan activity in Western Europe and the Balkans should almost cease if Great Britain has been conquered, but this is a what if. On the other hand, I only had a single commando appear in Poland throughout the war and not a single partisan division.

If you want to experience the real horror of the late war years just try the 1943 or 1944 save game to start.

[/quote]

The main purpose of my strategy was to avoid precisely that

If it's of any use to check for realism or whatever, this is the casualties score (Axis/Allies) at the end of the game (Barbarossa scenario only):
Infantry 15/434
Tanks 4/155
Recon 6/69
Antitank 12/75
Artillery 0/88
Anti-Air 3/48
Structures 1/38
Fighters 3/67
Tac.Bomb 0/46
Strat. Bomb 1/34
Ships 16/136
Other 14/76

Events and historical heroes add an incredible amount of flavor, the more the better!

Speaking of which, since you put in Operation Source (Tirpitz)... which kicked in when "my" Tirpitz was near Gibraltar - awesomeness! - you might want to add Operazione G.A.3 when on the 18th and 19th December 41 the Queen Elizabeth and the Valiant were sunk in Alexandria by the Xa Mas (I managed to replicate it somehow, despite being bogged down by mines...too many mines LOL).
More on mines, now that I remember. Since I started Sea Lion so early on I had the chance to witness mines being literally deployed all around my ships in the Channel. I wonder if that's WAD or hardcoded or fixable. Also, the British navy always goes gung-ho on the mines around Wilhelmshaven, for the joy of the seafort there. But hey, there's only so much you can do to add some brains to the AI

[McGuba]

For even more challange you can try to beat it on Rommel or by loading one of the saved games in which you can take over at a later historical stage, such as Stalingrad or Kursk. Obviously, the later you start, the harder it is to achieve any kind of victory or even a draw.

I don't like a challenge per se, I enjoy historical accuracy! And miss out the joy of playing the previous scenarios? forget about it

Sure, but the later starting points are also historically accurate. And since you have played through the whole campaign already you would not really miss anything. But fair enough, it is only an option as previously many players asked for it (later starting points), and I am aware that it is not every one's cup of tea.

I have seen that happening. The suicidal counterattacks to retake Moscow. The blind charge of Patton's army in Tunisia.

Actually, when it comes to the Red Army I do not really mind suicidal offensives as they often did so, and their losses were much higher in most cases. It is more of a problem when it comes to the Western Allies (even though they also got some whipping at the Kasserine pass and elsewhere). But unfortunately the AI's tactical thinking (or lack thereof) cannot be improved greatly.

I still can't see a submarine spotting airplanes in an airfield, across a mountain chain, but I guess it's for the greater good

Certainly, naval units should not see more than 1 hex of ground terrain, but again, it is more of a game mechics problem which cannot be modded. The only alternative would be to reduce their spotting to 1-2 hex, but then it would wastly reduce the AI's situational awareness at sea, ruining naval war. Therefore I went for a compromise and we have to try to live with their god's eye. If all else fails, you can imagine that they get survaillence info from hidden partisans or inserted agents.

I stand corrected, to my defense I can say that I meant to write 2 divisions in 1941 rather than 44, which, by the way is what your source says. Also, I killed 40 divisions between September 41 till the end of 43, and a few more in early 44, but, according to the wiki roughly 200k got killed/wounded by the end of 43 (including 1940 and 9 months of 41), and 200k more were still active. So, as far I can see, it's still at least twice as many.

Which probably means that in your longplay you were more successful than the Axis coalition historically (you had killed most of them by 43, and not just half of them as historically). But you were more successful elsewhere, too, isn't it? Anyway, partisan units are set to spawn with some randomness, so it it also possible that you just had bad luck and had more to spawn earlier. Most should appear from 1943/44, as historically.

Most partisan activity in Western Europe and the Balkans should almost cease if Great Britain has been conquered, but this is a what if. On the other hand, I only had a single commando appear in Poland throughout the war and not a single partisan division.

The capture of Britain and/or the USSR does have a negative effect on the number of new partisan units appearing in Yugoslavia. But they will support partisans until they exist and some partisans will appear even without 3rd party support. They had lots of hidden pre-war weapons and with them they could capture more from the enemy. The Balkans in the early 20th century was more like the Wild West, with most households having at least one gun. They fought four large scale wars by 1945.

As for the other parts of Europe: for example, some partisans only appear in France if D-day happens, and the major Polish and Slovak partisan uprisings only happen in 1944, and only if the Red Army is close enough to Eastern Europe. As far as I know there was no large scale partisan war in Poland prior to that. However, major anti-partisan offensives with regular forces did happen in Yugoslavia and Ukriane/Belarus from as early as 1941.

[VanBishop]

Nevermind, it's just nickpicking! But since you put such tremendous effort into this, you only deserve to get all the feedback.
The reason why I mentioned the partisans is because that's probably the only feature that I found more annoying from a player's perspective rather than challenging.
I'm sure everyone's experience is different as there's a random component.
I went back to count the number of partisans that I gave the whack-a-mole treatment (divisions/commandos).

Balkans and Greece(42/4)
France (7/3)
Norway (9/3)
Poland (0/1)
Russia (18/9)
Britain (1/0)

[McGuba]

Yeah, sure, I welcome all feedback.

I think those ratios are more or less accurate. By far the most successful partisan movement was in the Balkans. Yugoslavia was the only country which liberated most of its territory on its own before the arrival of the Allies. Then second should be Russia, and third Poland, France and Norway, the former ones only becoming very active in 1944 and only if the frontline is closing. Britain is pretty much hypothetical, but having been living in the UK for more than seven years now, I am quite sure that those people would have started some resistance as well if invaded by the Germans.

The reason why I mentioned the partisans is because that's probably the only feature that I found more annoying from a player's perspective rather than challenging.

I am aware that for most players partisan war is rather annoying. However, it is necessary as in reality the Axis also had to devote large forces for anti-partisan duties, which could have been used elsewhere and thus it had a great effect on the outcome of the war. In most cases partisans tried to avoid direct confrontation with regular forces and it was more of an annoying cat and mouse game and that's precisely how it should be in this mod.

[VanBishop]

Alright then, I'll just throw out some ideas, most likely impossible to impossible to implement due to game engine (something that is totally obscure to me).

1) Partisans
Up until 1944 partisans had very little impact in terms of casualties. They certainly did not attack Panzers in the middle of the French Camargue, or siege Athens.
What they did though, with increasing effectiveness throughout the war, as the Allies were getting closer, was disrupt supply routes, reduce morale, damage railways and so forth.
In my playthrough, I've dealt with the 100 plus partisan divisions with a total of 10 reserve infantry divisions (From Hungary and Bulgary) and 2 old recon units spread over the 4 partisan theaters. Overall, while annoying, it had a minimal impact on my campaign as I could employ the lowest quality units and never upgrade them nor give them elite reinforcements.
What could "hurt" more realistically? Maybe events. As long as the UK is in England, there's a chance to lose prestige due to partisan activity in France and Norway. As long as the SU holds Moscow or Leningrad, same thing happens in the marshes and so on. Maybe this chance could be reduced or avoided if there is one infantry in each objective city for the theater. I figure leaving Norway, France, and Balkans devoid of any "front-ready" units could cost up to 300 prestige per turn.
The overall number of train transports could be reduced, say by 1 (and up to 3).

2) Transportation
I have strong doubts there's any solution for this, but who knows.
What made my life easier on the Eastern front, was a massive use of the railways. First to move all anti-air to France, then to move the units I needed for Sea Lion, to shift front from Caucasus to Kursk, then to move back all the anti-air once Great Britain had been conquered. It did require some micro-planning, but it worked like a charm.
Point is, the German and Russian rail tracks were incompatible, as they had different gauges. So, Germans had to convert Russian tracks in order to use their own trains, and for the most part they employed whatever leftover Russian trains they managed to salvage instead. This created quite the logistical nightmare that amplified the "mud" issue. I wonder if there's a way to implement this somehow as in "no railways" in Russia till a big city is conquered, and then they appear once given cities have been conquered.

3) Winter
While the loss of strength points hits the prestige quite hard, it does not pose a real threat if you keep your units strong enough. The way I see it, is that on top of that, some, if not all, Axis ground units should also lose organization. That would make Russian counterattacks more meaningful. I wonder if that could be simulated.

That's all!