Tests due to a general being killed in persuit

[titanu]

A unit in close combat routs - it has a general leading it. All BGs in 3 inches test for the rout. The unit then routs and the general goes with it. The persuing unit stays in contact - kills a base from the routing unit and kills the general. A new unit not previously with 3 inches is now within 3 inches, it takes a test and routs. When should the rout take place and do other units within 3 inches take a test and if so when?

[babyshark]

Your first and best resource for settling questions of this sort is the detailed turn sequence table at the back of the rule book.

My answer, off the top of my head, is that "other units within 3 inches" test immediately they see their chums rout. FoG has the possibility of significant cascade effects.

Marc

[hammy]

Cohesion tests are taken immediately the cause occurs so in this case the BG routs and all BGs within 3 MU test.

The pursuit happens, the general dies, all BGs within 3 MU of the new position of the routers test.

The second BG breaks, any BG within 3 MU of the newly broken BG tests, any BG within 3 MU of both the newly broken BG and the routers where the general died tests with a -1 for two causes.

Or at least that is my take on this one.

[nikgaukroger]

Cohesion tests are taken immediately the cause occurs

Not always - tests for losing melee come after all combats are resolved for example.

[hammy]

Cohesion tests are taken immediately the cause occurs

Not always - tests for losing melee come after all combats are resolved for example.

I knew someone would say that...

The point is that all melee and impact combats are resolved simultaneously, this means that you roll lots of combats and you should then roll lots of tests. In practice people roll tests as they go along but that is really just for convenience.

[nikgaukroger]

That's because it is true.

Because of the convention some, usually new, players have got the wrong idea and believe that they apply the results of CTs taken because of combat immediately before moving onto the next combat in line. By all means roll immediately but be careful that everyone involved applies the results (should it trigger another test) after combat has been concluded for all combats.

[PyrrhicVictory]

Your first and best resource for settling questions of this sort is the detailed turn sequence table at the back of the rule book.

My answer, off the top of my head, is that "other units within 3 inches" test immediately they see their chums rout. FoG has the possibility of significant cascade effects.

Marc

Tell me about it...Had it happen twice at HubCon this past weekend....Ugh...

[andy63]

A unit in close combat routs - it has a general leading it. All BGs in 3 inches test for the rout. The unit then routs and the general goes with it. The persuing unit stays in contact - kills a base from the routing unit and kills the general. A new unit not previously with 3 inches is now within 3 inches, it takes a test and routs. When should the rout take place and do other units within 3 inches take a test and if so when?

Ok so the BG routs after testing for seeing the General die!
This is the next to the last thing you do in the joint action phase does this BG Rout immediately or in the next bound.

Andy

[hammy]

A unit in close combat routs - it has a general leading it. All BGs in 3 inches test for the rout. The unit then routs and the general goes with it. The persuing unit stays in contact - kills a base from the routing unit and kills the general. A new unit not previously with 3 inches is now within 3 inches, it takes a test and routs. When should the rout take place and do other units within 3 inches take a test and if so when?

Ok so the BG routs after testing for seeing the General die!
This is the next to the last thing you do in the joint action phase does this BG Rout immediately or in the next bound.

Andy

Any BG that breaks makes an immediate rout move regardless of the phase. BGs that are still broken after the part of the JAP where they could be rallied also rout in the JAP.

It would be unusual but not impossible for a BG to break in the JAP after the JAP rout moves and in this case it would make an immediare rout but not in addition to the normal JAP rout move.

It is pretty clear to me from the full sequence of play.

[andy63]

A unit in close combat routs - it has a general leading it. All BGs in 3 inches test for the rout. The unit then routs and the general goes with it. The persuing unit stays in contact - kills a base from the routing unit and kills the general. A new unit not previously with 3 inches is now within 3 inches, it takes a test and routs. When should the rout take place and do other units within 3 inches take a test and if so when?

Ok so the BG routs after testing for seeing the General die!
This is the next to the last thing you do in the joint action phase does this BG Rout immediately or in the next bound.

Andy

Any BG that breaks makes an immediate rout move regardless of the phase. BGs that are still broken after the part of the JAP where they could be rallied also rout in the JAP.

It would be unusual but not impossible for a BG to break in the JAP after the JAP rout moves and in this case it would make an immediare rout but not in addition to the normal JAP rout move.

It is pretty clear to me from the full sequence of play.

Hammy you say its clear on the full sequence of play but unlike the Impact phase and the melee phase when it tells you after taking a cohesion test to put any routs in it does not on the Joint action phase when you test for seeing commanders lost!
Andy.

[hammy]

Hammy you say its clear on the full sequence of play but unlike the Impact phase and the melee phase when it tells you after taking a cohesion test to put any routs in it does not on the Joint action phase when you test for seeing commanders lost!
Andy.

Good point, it doesn't mention making rout moves for BGs broken in the JAP anywhere in the full sequence of play

That said, on P114 where it defines what happens when you break it states that you make a rout move in the phase you break and in each subsequent JAP.

[andy63]

Hammy you say its clear on the full sequence of play but unlike the Impact phase and the melee phase when it tells you after taking a cohesion test to put any routs in it does not on the Joint action phase when you test for seeing commanders lost!
Andy.

Good point, it doesn't mention making rout moves for BGs broken in the JAP anywhere in the full sequence of play

That said, on P114 where it defines what happens when you break it states that you make a rout move in the phase you break and in each subsequent JAP.

That's better I've been looking all over to find a reference on this and it makes sense, its a pity it was overlooked and not put on the full sequence of play.
Andy

[hammy]

Hammy you say its clear on the full sequence of play but unlike the Impact phase and the melee phase when it tells you after taking a cohesion test to put any routs in it does not on the Joint action phase when you test for seeing commanders lost!
Andy.

Good point, it doesn't mention making rout moves for BGs broken in the JAP anywhere in the full sequence of play

That said, on P114 where it defines what happens when you break it states that you make a rout move in the phase you break and in each subsequent JAP.

That's better I've been looking all over to find a reference on this and it makes sense, its a pity it was overlooked and not put on the full sequence of play.
Andy

I suspect there are other equally obscure omissions in the sequence of play. FWIW I have never seen a BG break in the JAP. I can only imagine it happening if you have a 2 base superior or elite BG and it is removed because it is down to 1 base. Commanders shouldn't be vulnerable in the JAP as they get to move before pursuit so can leave a routing BG.

[nikgaukroger]

FWIW I have never seen a BG break in the JAP. I can only imagine it happening if you have a 2 base superior or elite BG and it is removed because it is down to 1 base.

FRAGed BG contacted by pursuers which then fails the CT - suspect I did that to David Fairhurst in Helsinki when we had the terrible combination of events that led to his army disappearing