Fall Weiss testers wanted

[Erik2]

turn-21

I have had this happen with some of the stuff I've tested. Basically it occurs whenever the victory/defeat trigger fires after the final turn, and the game clicks over another one before bringing the message up.

- BNC

I expected it to be some kind of hiccup. I hope the edited victory conditions will avoid this behavior.

[bru888]

bru88

I already regret your offer to test
The passive Polish units is hopefully easy to dealt with.
But the ending suddenly switching (and a turn-21???) is a puzzle.... and you are the only one experiencing this.
I'll remove the 'end-of-scenario' trigger from the victory conditions and see if this helps.

Unfortunately, I have forgotten what I learned about scenario-building (you will recall, perhaps, my debacle called "Oahu Invasion") so all I can do is report what I see without looking under the hood, so to speak. I may be tempted to look but I will never presume to tinker with your work.

Please keep in mind that scenario-end situation occurred just as I took Poznan at the end of turn 20, the last scheduled turn. I almost literally took the city and then clicked "end turn." This may indicate a problem with turn count or timing in one of your triggers. The scenario should have assessed that I had all three cities, the railroad station, and my initial starting point under my control at the end of turn 20 and awarded me a victory, not a loss.

The issue with the blank outcome 2_2 photo is easily explained; you didn't put one in (or for outcome 2_3 or outcome 2_4). Hey, I'm just trying to help!

[Erik2]

And any help is really appreciated of course.
And please, help yourself in the editor. Maybe you'll spot some errors that I've missed. You know the editor is quite unforgiving about those.
The scenarios generally lack event graphics at this point. I'm collecting some Polish campaign pictures off the net and hope to find enough suitable ones.

[Alexander1]

No comments on Danzig Corridor. Though, two goals (take Danzig and establish supply link) were completed but remained with question marks until scenario's end. It puzzled me if something was wrong, but scenario ended with no problems. Also I would add description of reward for completing secondary objective (i.e. appearance of fighter commander).

[bru888]

And any help is really appreciated of course.
And please, help yourself in the editor. Maybe you'll spot some errors that I've missed. You know the editor is quite unforgiving about those.
The scenarios generally lack event graphics at this point. I'm collecting some Polish campaign pictures off the net and hope to find enough suitable ones.

Well, remember, you asked for it!

The "problem" with the tankette in the northeast is due to you having it idle until the Germans take Poznan, I believe, if I read these screens correctly. Only when the Germans take Poznan do you activate the tankette to move to Poznan. If that is what you intended, fine. That's why the tankette never moved for me because I took Poznan on my last turn.

Screenshot 4.jpg (241.28 KiB) Viewed 3443 times

Screenshot 1.jpg (221.76 KiB) Viewed 3443 times

Screenshot 2.jpg (240.67 KiB) Viewed 3443 times

[Erik2]

No comments on Danzig Corridor. Though, two goals (take Danzig and establish supply link) were completed but remained with question marks until scenario's end. It puzzled me if something was wrong, but scenario ended with no problems. Also I would add description of reward for completing secondary objective (i.e. appearance of fighter commander).

It was probably too complicated to get a 3-link supply connection to work properly. I have split them up in two different objectives.
Added reward briefing to the air objective.
Thanks for reporting!

Danzig Corridor updated and link to Lodz added in first post

[bru888]

Danzig is very well done, I enjoyed it. Although it turned out the way that it should have historically, it was not a pushover! It was a challenge to get the job done in 20 turns and the Poles put up a good fight, at one point counterattacking my soft middle to my surprise. Interesting duel between the Schlezwig-Holstein and two Polish destroyers, which I lost because I used the battleship to shell Danzig rather than fight the destroyers until it was too late.

The briefing says, "Because you were not able to cripple the Polish Air Force . . ." Does that imply something is different (or will be once scenarios are linked in a campaign) in this scenario depending on whether or not all Polish airfields were destroyed in Poznan?

By the way, I noticed in Poznan and Danzig that you are not entering titles for outcomes; is that why the title on the victory screen comes up with the generic "outcome_2_3_title"? I thought if you left the title blank it would say "Minor Victory" by default, but apparently not.

Screenshot 2.jpg (236.57 KiB) Viewed 3427 times

[bru888]

Preliminary post on Lodz: Whether this is your own design or you are merely faithfully following a Panzer Corps script, this could be brilliant! The dagger up the middle, only to be blunted and squeezed from all sides; the right-hand turn at Lask, if one is smart . . .

However, I am putting this one aside for now to see if you and others here think that you may have made the Poles a bit too strong, particularly the units north of the Bzura River (yes, in a beta test, I feel justified in lifting the fog of war). I was hoping those units would not start crossing the river, but they did. On middle difficulty, this scenario looks impossible to win.

Just curious; why the skull and cross bones insignia for the armored column?

Let's see if anybody else thinks this scenario is a bit too favorable for the Poles, or I am just a wimp.

[Erik2]

bru888

Danzig:
I lifted the briefings directly from the PzC scenarios...

The naval part is not in the original. I thought it added a little bit extra and it is loosely based on history. The Polish destroyers were evacuated to England while the Schleswig-Holstein shelled the Polish defenses on Westerplatte.

Victory outcomes and graphics in OOB is a pain in my whip-lash neck . i copied the PzC endings over, but as soon as you enter some txt the game won't use the default Major, Minor etc headings. And adding graphics is pretty arcane and easy to make mistakes as you have to enter txt in a separate file etc. I really hope the devs some day create a interface for this stuff.

Lodz:
There is surprisingly little in the way of AI scripting in PzC. It seems units are either put in a defense or attack modus. You can order units within zones to shift attack/defense modus.
So I basically write my own scripts in OOB depending on how I think the scenario will play. Nothing fancy though.
I got the devs to add 'unlimited' AI-teams and this really helped me. Every unit in a non-objective town is giving a defend order with a 1-5 radius around the town. Units in objectives may get a static defense order. Armor/cavaly groups are often given attack or movement on specific turns or if the Germans occupy or are getting near certain locations. Since one AI-team may change its orders depending on various location ownerships it hopefully generates some unpredictability if the player chooses different strategies if the replay a scenario. That's my philosophy in life

Skull & bones is the Waffen SS faction. I needed a different German faction to restrict the specific unit type losses to the auxilliares. Otherwise your identical core unit types will screw up the victory condition. And skull & bones was a better choice than the Kriegsmarine.

Devs, if you are listening. We need more German factions, at least a Luftwaffe and a Feldgrau team (it would look better than using the Red Team).

[Erik2]

Link to Piatek added in first post

[bru888]

Erik

Danzig:
I lifted the briefings directly from the PzC scenarios...

The naval part is not in the original. I thought it added a little bit extra and it is loosely based on history. The Polish destroyers were evacuated to England while the Schleswig-Holstein shelled the Polish defenses on Westerplatte. Like I said, a nice touch. One must choose between the natural inclination of bombarding the heck out of the Poles in Danzig or saving the battleship itself.

Victory outcomes and graphics in OOB is a pain in my whip-lash neck . i copied the PzC endings over, but as soon as you enter some txt the game won't use the default Major, Minor etc headings. And adding graphics is pretty arcane and easy to make mistakes as you have to enter txt in a separate file etc. I really hope the devs some day create a interface for this stuff. Well, as far as the title on the victory/defeat screen itself, can't you just manually enter "Major Defeat, Minor Defeat, Draw, etc." in the boxes next to each result in the editor? They're blank in your scenarios.

Lodz:
There is surprisingly little in the way of AI scripting in PzC. It seems units are either put in a defense or attack modus. You can order units within zones to shift attack/defense modus.
So I basically write my own scripts in OOB depending on how I think the scenario will play. Nothing fancy though.
I got the devs to add 'unlimited' AI-teams and this really helped me. Every unit in a non-objective town is giving a defend order with a 1-5 radius around the town. Units in objectives may get a static defense order. Armor/cavaly groups are often given attack or movement on specific turns or if the Germans occupy or are getting near certain locations. Since one AI-team may change its orders depending on various location ownerships it hopefully generates some unpredictability if the player chooses different strategies if the replay a scenario. That's my philosophy in life I am a disciple of your philosophy! But, oh master, don't you think there are too many Poles in this scenario? Maybe I should have continued to see if I could handle the horde. Did you, in your test?

Skull & bones is the Waffen SS faction. I needed a different German faction to restrict the specific unit type losses to the auxilliares. Otherwise your identical core unit types will screw up the victory condition. And skull & bones was a better choice than the Kriegsmarine. Thanks for the explanation. It sure is easy to keep an eye on them.

Devs, if you are listening. We need more German factions, at least a Luftwaffe and a Feldgrau team (it would look better than using the Red Team).

[bru888]

Link to Piatek added in first post

Same comment for Piatek as for Lodz. In my opinion, both scenarios are not balanced properly. The Poles are way too strong (middle difficulty).

Not only are they much more numerous, they keep getting reinforced. They cannot be held back from squirting through and cutting off supply points because the German forces are spread too thin. Then it becomes a game of attrition and a matter of time as German supplies and efficiency dwindle.

Then as I am getting pounded, I "look up" and see these Polish reserve forces that have not even been committed yet. Seriously?

Screenshot 1.jpg (233.52 KiB) Viewed 3385 times

[Erik2]

bru888

I'll take a shot at adding victory/loss graphics and headers to all the Polish scenarios.

Lodz/Piatek play balance; i managed wins in both on level 3 difficulty, but barely. And of course, I'm familiar with the scenarios.
Here's what I'd like to do in all scenarios except teh first one, Poznan:
The German resources are pretty generous. I plan to add 3 land command points (enough for one inf unit) whenever the Germans capture certain secondary objects.
This should allow the Germans to plug any gaps and keep the Blitzkrieg momentum.

[Erik2]

Added link to Wyszogrod and updated previous scenarios.

Added Command Points rewards to many/most objectives.
Added proper victory headers and graphics

[Igor1941]

[Erik2]

Igor1941

This is a play-test thread.
I make new scenario links available in the first post as I get feedback on the old ones.
The first 5 are available now.
When all scenarios have been tested I'll link them in a campaign.

[Alexander1]

Link to Piatek added in first post

Not only are they much more numerous, they keep getting reinforced. They cannot be held back from squirting through and cutting off supply points because the German forces are spread too thin. Then it becomes a game of attrition and a matter of time as German supplies and efficiency dwindle.

Totally agree. I tried Lodz scenario three times. I could not achieve victory and accomplish all secondary goals. Also five armor trains is to much to handle and is a bit not logical.

[Erik2]

Alexander1

The trains in the original PzC Lodz scenario are troop trains, but you cannot embark units on trains in the OOB editor. I have replaced the armored trains with regular trains, they should be easier to destroy.
Also, the latest version of Lodz give you 3 Land Command Points for each primary objective you capture. After a few turns you should be able to purchase new units and use them to protect your supply line.
Thanks for reporting!

Lodz updated in first post.

[Alexander1]

Alexander1

The trains in the original PzC Lodz scenario are troop trains, but you cannot embark units on trains in the OOB editor. I have replaced the armored trains with regular trains, they should be easier to destroy.
Also, the latest version of Lodz give you 3 Land Command Points for each primary objective you capture. After a few turns you should be able to purchase new units and use them to protect your supply line.
Thanks for reporting!

Lodz updated in first post.

3 land command points per target city does not help since you need to clean 2 hexes around target city. By the time you do the clean up it's too late for buy reinforcements. I guess more command points shallbe provided earlier. Only first closest target city helps here. You still need to destroy all bunkers to claim Lodz even if the city is taken from the east. Therefore, lost time and effort. For some reason the bunkers did not use their turn to attack. If they did it would only worsen the situation.

Going after the trains is also problematic: the resources are needed to accomplish primary goals. Also, bomber commander appeared on the first turn without destroying the trains. Obviously this was not the intention.

Still the balance of game does not feel right: either it's not enough turns to accomplish all goals or there are too many enemy resources to deal with in given time (units, prestige).

[Erik2]

Alexander1

I had forgot to change the unit type from armored to regular train in the objective condition. Fixed.

Halved the Polish resource income from 24 to 12 pr turn. Added 16 German income pr turn.

You're not advised to try to attack the Lodz bunkers frontally, Lodz is probably best saved for last. But I've replaced the concrete with regular ones in case anyone really wants to try.

Pushed the Polish armored counter-attacks back 2 turns each.

Removed the 2-hex radius condition on all primary objectives.

Lodz updated in first post.