Pike & Shot Caracole Tournament Thread

[deadtorius]

Picked it up Ian I will set up a challenge back then.

[deadtorius]

Ian set up a game, 1642 Royalist vs Parliament PW: poodle

Good luck to you.

[Triarii]

Challenge for Tiopepe
New Model 1646-1660 vs Scots Covenanters 1648-1652
PW is 'BlackTom'

Cheers
Mike

[Triarii]

Challenge for Richard Bodley-Scott
New Model Army 1646-1660 vs Scots Covenanters 1648-1652
PW = NewModel

Cheers
Mike

[Aryaman]

Challenges

Spanish 1534 vs French 1526 for Batesmotel password Norman

Spanish 1635 vs French 1635 for Buckner password parma

[rbodleyscott]

BATTLE RESULT:

rbodleyscott (Transylvanians) won vs AEMIL (Imperialists). (5% routed vs 40% routed)

Most of the Transylvanian army hidden behind hills at start. Haiduks and Bardische musketeers moved up into woods and rough ground on the Transylvanian left. Main Imperialist cavalry advanced forward on that wing, with infantry in the centre and one unit of Kurassiers on the other wing.

Transylvanian body of manoeuvre (2 x Boyars, 2 x Kurassiers, 1 x Armoured hussars), initially in reserve, moved left to assist infantry vs enemy mounted.

Unarmoured cavalry hussars hid at the back (as is their wont). Light horse and dragoons rode round enemy left flank to try to silence the enemy guns.

Haiduks in rough ground survived initial charge of Imperialist kurassiers, whereupon Imperialist right wing shot to pieces by musketry, ridden down by Boyars and fled. Imperialist left wing kurassier unit flanked and routed by unarmoured hussars. Imperials guns ridden down by light horse.

Imperialist infantry defeated one unit of Transylvanian Bardische musketeers, but then the morale of the Imperialist army collapsed.

[Vadim84]

Challenges :

VS : moncholee,

French 1643-48 VS Imperial 1639-48

VS : greetings44,

Polish 1633-48 VS Ottoman 1633-48


Both have the same password : blue

Enjoy !

[Hrothgar]

Victory for flatsix's Catholic League vs my Swedes, 11% to 43%. I was doing ok on my right, but I overcommitted on my left, where he had superior cavalry, and that flank collapsed like dominos. Congratulations!

[batesmotel]

Challenges:

aryaman: Swiss vs French password aryaman
gillaume: Poles vs Ottomans password guillaume

Chris

[AEMIL]

I have lost another one from rbodleyscott


AEMIL(swedish 1630-1634) LOST vs rbodleyscott(Imperial 1621-1634) . (64% routed vs 46%routed)

Swedish troops lost all the cavalry on the right flank but strong left flank maneuver of the swedish salvo routed many of the imperial Pike&shot.

AI decided this to be a flank maneuver battle, so numerous cavalry came from the back of the swedish right which surprised me, nocked out my

guns and the rest of the cavalry and decide the battle.

[flatsix518]

===== RESULTS CAPTURED TO HERE =====

See top of thread on the signups page for accumulating results.

flatsix518

[krieg63]

I have lost another one from rbodleyscott


AEMIL(swedish 1630-1634) LOST vs rbodleyscott(Imperial 1621-1634) . (64% routed vs 46%routed)

Swedish troops lost all the cavalry on the right flank but strong left flank maneuver of the swedish salvo routed many of the imperial Pike&shot.

AI decided this to be a flank maneuver battle, so numerous cavalry came from the back of the swedish right which surprised me, nocked out my

guns and the rest of the cavalry and decide the battle.

Again and again, if there is a Flank march the battle is unfair.

[flatsix518]

Let's complete this tournament as is.

I intend to have a post-mortem afterwards to see if we can improve the organization and identify possible problems and solutions.

[rbodleyscott]

I have lost another one from rbodleyscott


AEMIL(swedish 1630-1634) LOST vs rbodleyscott(Imperial 1621-1634) . (64% routed vs 46%routed)

Swedish troops lost all the cavalry on the right flank but strong left flank maneuver of the swedish salvo routed many of the imperial Pike&shot.

AI decided this to be a flank maneuver battle, so numerous cavalry came from the back of the swedish right which surprised me, nocked out my

guns and the rest of the cavalry and decide the battle.

Again and again, if there is a Flank march the battle is unfair.

Hardly, they arrived at the wrong moment and I would have been better off if I had had them from the start of the battle. I very nearly lost the battle before they arrived. Prior to their arrival it was noticeable that my % losses were much lower than appeared from the proportion of my on-table units that had routed - which would have alerted my opponent if he had known that such flank marches were a possibility!

[flatsix518]

Are flank marching forces deducted from the army at the start -- not an addition to the army?

[rbodleyscott]

Are flank marching forces deducted from the army at the start -- not an addition to the army?

Yes, they are deducted from the army at the start. So you might get some tactical benefit from surprising the enemy, or your army might be defeated before they arrive owing to the enemy's on-table advantage.

It is swings and roundabouts, and adds to the variety of games.

It is perfectly possible for your opponent to work out that you have a flank march if he is observant, just by the fact that your on-table army is smaller than it should be.

[pantherboy]

Challenges accepted from cromlechi and guillaume.

My challenges have been posted also with passwords cromlechi & guillaume respectively.

Cheers,

Steve

[TheGrayMouser]

Let's complete this tournament as is.

I intend to have a post-mortem afterwards to see if we can improve the organization and identify possible problems and solutions.

For what its worth, my experience w flank marches with maybe 15 MP games and 15 games vs the AI under my belt, all skirmish battles with "open" battle pick and mostly large battles:

the flank marches are not something you can count on, rarely arrive at a point where they are immedietly in apposition to "outflank" or are inappropriate troop type for the party they join:)
After all these games most of my flank marches have been 1-2 units (and this is on large very large battles) the one time I got more,they were 4 units , all stradiots that entered battle in the midst of a raging heavy cavalry scrum. They could not shoot not move as all avenues of maneuver were blocked. Suffice to say they were eventually routed or fled the field and I would certainly have been better off if they never flanked or even arrived!
I have never been seriously hindered by an enemy flank march, in one battle where my opponent had 6 units arrive (4 horse a P&S unit and a dragoon!) it simply put the nail in the coffin of a failing flank and lost battle. If they never arrived, I still would have lost.
I think it adds a nice degree of uncertainty to the game, and its certainly less of an advantage of choosing a horrific map based on your opponents army like in FOGAM (I think the patch that allowed maps to be chosen was the worst "improvement" they did to FOG, especially as getting map choice was determined by a 6 sided dice roll)

Anyway the only "solution" would be to force players to resign games immedietly after one players is notified of a flank march, however, you are not notified of this until after at least 1 or two turn swaps prior to getting to deploy. That is an awful lot of wasted game time, especially in a tournement with timetables and the fact that players often are in different timezones..

[rbodleyscott]

Anyway the only "solution" would be to force players to resign games immediately after one players is notified of a flank march, however, you are not notified of this until after at least 1 or two turn swaps prior to getting to deploy. That is an awful lot of wasted game time, especially in a tournement with timetables and the fact that players often are in different timezones..

Not only that but I have played more than one game in which the AI gave me a flank march but I did not notice the popup message on the deployment turn. There are no further messages after that until the flank march actually arrives. So when the flank march arrived it was a complete surprise to me as well as to my opponent.

Having to abandon the game on turn 26 (which is approximately when my flank march arrived vs AEMIL) would not be good!

[flatsix518]

I had a multi-player game (not part of this tournament) where my opponent had reinforcements and I had a flank march.

My opponent attacked rather aggressively instead of waiting for his reinforcements. My flank march arrived ahead of his reinforcements, but it was only two units, a light horse and light foot. My opponent had left guns well positioned on a hill deep in his rear to support his attack -- I had nothing better to do with my flank march than to take out these guns which were unprotected.

Shortly after, his reinforcements arrived -- but it was too late. His army was already collapsing. I think his error was in not choosing a defensive stand which would have drawn me closer to his reinforcements which might have then made a difference.

I like the uncertainty of things in Pike & Shot with flank marches, reinforcements, and loss of C&C post-melee. It seems to fit the period.