US scenarios ideal force composition (yet another thread)

[EsgibtkeinBier]

I made it to the East Coast. Well not only did I make it but I accumulated almost 20k prestige in the meantime... Ok, on Colonel difficulty but since it's my third play through I consider a success!
My force consists of 6 infantry, 8 tanks, 6 artillery (3 towed and 3 self-propelled), 6 fighters, 2 fighter bombers, 2 tactical bombers and 2 strategic bombers.

Force composition:
(in parenthesis are my unupgraded core units; everything has 10/10 strength and their experience is between 3 and 5 stars – I've got 19k prestige available to spend on upgrades/new units)

- Infantry (2x Grenadier '43, 2x Wehr '43, 1x Pioneer '43 and 1x Gebirgsjäger)
I've read somewhere in the forums that a nice idea would be to convert (almost) every infantry unit to pioneers to counter the high entrenchment values of the defending units. Maybe keep the Gebirgsjäger unit?
I second this since I don't think I've used infantry in the last scenarios to battle anything but entrenched units (with a few exceptions - where even grens were not really effective). Less initiative would mean more casualties though…
By the way, I'm still stuck with the early halftrack models. I don't think it would be that important to get them upgraded, right?
Bonus: I suppose that adding a bridge pioneer unit as a utility asset would be useful. Or aren't there too many rivers in the States?

- Tanks (4x Panther G, 4x Tiger I)
Now this is the part where the community is divided. I've heard many people say that TigerIIs and Mäuse are a waste of prestige due to their slow speed. However I saw Mr. Horseman over there (who seemed to reach semi-legendary status in the forums due to this AAR : viewtopic.php?f=145&t=26166&start=220 ) win the East Coast decisively with a Panzer force consisting exclusively of Tiger II's and a Maus (with +1 Movement) - so I do have my fair share of doubt. Since 3 of my units have a +1 movement, I think I'll go for 3 Mäuse...
I don't plan on chasing decisive victory on the East Coast–yet–so my main goal is to reach the West Coast and win the campaign. So if those slow tanks mean my demise somewhere in the future (or my inability to win West decisively)... I'd like to know

- Artillery (3x 21cm, 3x sIG 38)
Any tips there? I don't think I'll have any problem as long as artillery support is concerned...

- Luftwaffe
Fighters (6x Bf 109s): They need to be upgraded to jet fighters asap. Although Me262A’s are indeed more cost effective than Gotha Flying Wings in terms of countering enemy fighters, I think I will go with the latter. Even though they have one point less in air defense, they boast a higher (by two) air attack, more fuel, more ammo and better ground attack values. Thing is, they could be used as light tactical bombers after the USAF is brought to its knees.
Tactical Bombers (2x Ju87G): I think I'll stay with the late model Stukas since they're the most effective air unit against hard land targets.
Fighter Bombers (2x Me410 A): I don't think I need those anymore. Useless against any up to date American vet fighter and less useful compared to Stukas vs ground targets. I think the most viable choice is to upgrade them to Arado Blitzes. They will lose their Anti Fighter capabilities but at least they won’t need a fighter escort due to their high air defense value and will be decent vs ground targets (especially soft ones where Stukas G struggle).
Strategic Bombers (2x He177A): I think that Arados 555 Is are a must-have…

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If I build my Wunder-Armee (upgrade all inf. to pioneer and then buy 5 Tiger IIs, 3 Mäuse, 6 Gotha Flying Wings, 1 Arado Blitz and 2 Arado strategic bombers ) I'll almost run out of prestige (I’ll have like 1000 in reserve) so I’m wondering… How much prestige is required at the start of US East Coast to ensure a couple of early replacements?

Furthermore, I wonder if it’s a good idea to buy green units. My core could use two or three more units but I doubt that the size of my corps cannot handle the scenatios (how could I ensure more experience for everyone anyway)… Maybe I should have bought a few more land units than aircrafts (those Fighter-Bombers aren’t that useful late game) but still… You need air superiority and you need it bad.

Also note that, if possible, I'd like to finish the US scenarios without overstrengthing my units (realised there is an Steam achievement as well). I've made it all the way through here without overstrengthing a single unit and I don't feel like quiting now!

PS
Do I have to land forces in the southern part of the map as well to capture those objectives easier? They would be in grave danger of the enemy navy, though in a couple of turns this problem can be solved. If so, how many turns do I have to wait to land the southern forces safely and have enough time to cap the objectives? In the North I don’t find a reason to delay the landing. I’m still wondering what the best tactic would be…

[EsgibtkeinBier]

First post in Slitherine forums, yay ^^

edit: second... technically speaking

[MartyWard]

The first challenge is getting ashore so whatever planes you have should have a decent naval attack as there are quite a few US naval units. Nothing sucks more than losing 5 SP of Tiger II's to a cruiser shot .

As far as the landing area you can do it any way you like. If you land everything at or above the Chesapeake Bay then you will be in a race to take the Southern VP hexes but you won't need to worry as much about the navy. It is definitely possible to win landing only in the North. You can end it quicker if you land farther South but not only are there additional ships there, there are some forts you need to deal with.

[BR4ZIL]

Check the post you made on Steam forums, i gave you a reply there! With me being "General Plastro"

[EsgibtkeinBier]

The first challenge is getting ashore so whatever planes you have should have a decent naval attack as there are quite a few US naval units. Nothing sucks more than losing 5 SP of Tiger II's to a cruiser shot .

As far as the landing area you can do it any way you like. If you land everything at or above the Chesapeake Bay then you will be in a race to take the Southern VP hexes but you won't need to worry as much about the navy. It is definitely possible to win landing only in the North. You can end it quicker if you land farther South but not only are there additional ships there, there are some forts you need to deal with.

Thanks for the input!

Check the post you made on Steam forums, i gave you a reply there! With me being "General Plastro"

Thanks! I'll reply to you there then! In order to keep the thread complete I'll attach the Steam discussion here so people can see your reply:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/268400/di ... 933043328/

[EsgibtkeinBier]

Wrist pain again (made me postpone this post a bit more than I wanted). Friendly reminder: If you use your PC (:P) for many hours please reconsider the way you use/set your machine. Correct posture and ergonomic placement are important (had to learn this the hard way)…

I made it! Finished the campaign with relative ease (only West coast posed some threat but I managed to get a decisive there as well)!

Infantry:
I went with the pio-only strat to tackle the entrenched units but in retrospective I should have retained a couple of grens because they pack more offensive power, have better initiative and -to my surpise- not everything was entrenched (at least until West Coast; where 4 pios are definitely needed).
When compared to wehr, fallschrims seem a really good idea because they do have a much better initiative and their mobility rocks, at the cost of slightly less attack. Problem is that in order to use them effectively you need to have clear skies (and by the time they are at the states, your halftracks can pretty much roam anywhere they want )… Anyway, I will try them next session for sure!

Tanks:
Surprisingly Mäuse (with +1 movement) and Tigers II did the job… I got a DV in every US scenario except the first one (which I did deliberately stalled to gain some extra prestige). Yes they were slow, but nothing could stop them (they could pretty much clear cities as well)! On the other hand they are super expensive and replacements do cost a lot (with this extra prestige you can overstrengthen Panthers/Tigers and create an intimidating force). Furthermore, Mäuse are definitely an overkill… I suppose that Panthers/Tiger Is are better choice after all although with proper planning both are effective. Will try an invasion with them and compare the results

Artillery:
Don’t think that 6 arti is too much. If self-propelled, they can easily catch up with the panzers. Don’t forget their defensive capabilities as well!
I do regret not using a railgun… Would have a bit more of a punch against those units near L.A.
Maybe a couple of high-end rocket launchers would be a nice idea… High and better Soft Attack (with a bit less speed and lower range though).
Mental note: try to understand exactly how ROF works…
Additional mental note: Gustav rocks (despite low rof :3)

Anti Air:
That’s a nice idea… Don’t know why I haven’t thought of it myself
Then again it will cost some prestige and I proper use of fighters renders them somewhat ineffective. It’s a question of whether AA is prestige effectivewise or not (a question I cannot answer).

Luftwaffe:
Everything went fine.
The only problem was that even six Gotha Flying Wings didn’t seem enough in US West. Well… Not that I didn’t manage to beat the USAF; it’s just that it’s the first time I suffered such a high rate of casualties though with careful planning everything would have been better

Check the post you made on Steam forums, i gave you a reply there! With me being "General Plastro"

PS1
Thanks for your reply. Much appreciated
A couple of questions if you don’t mind:
a) In which scenario did you manage to get the lonely wolf achievement. Kiev or what?
b) Do you remember your force composition at the start of US East? I am currently trying a colonel decisive-only run and your input will definitely prove useful

PS2
Field Marshal… Here I come

[EsgibtkeinBier]

In order to keep this thread complete...

I prevailed (through save-loading *shhh*) in FM using a force consisting of Panthers (that could handle almost everything even though they took heavier loses compared to heavy tanks) and a couple of Tigers (that were used to soften up heavier targets or soak up casualties). The bonus movement proved invaluable... In most cases decisive victories (even in FM) proved a breeze; through heavy casualties of course .
A couple of units were a bit of a problem (see Pattons Armoured HQ and Pershings) but with the help of Stukas they were reduced to a minor nuisance in no time.

Even though I think that King Tigers and Mäuse do remain a viable (and cooler ) choice, Panthers are definitely much more cost effective.
Mäuse with +2 Movement are another story...

PS
Rommel... Here I come
(after the US invasion D-Day seems like a childs play)

[EsgibtkeinBier]

A helpful reply by Dragoon on Steam:

You should use Tigers as battering rams, and Panthers as flankers. Mass attack ini bonus + arty for minimal or even zero losses(depending on your heroes,exp and overstrenght). It's advantageous if you can plan your units move order in advance for optimum use and defense during AI turn.

I favorite to maximize stats. Choose your tanks depending on their hero stats. Panther is still the better tank, because mobility is the hardest to come by and speed gives you more options when and where to fight.

For me I developed this priority list over the last two years.
From top to bottom
Any tank with at least +1 movement becomes Tiger -> King Tiger, +2 for Maus/Jagdtiger I think this is a no brainier. Powerful tanks, but too slow for offense. What good is a tank that is a powerhouse but never there when you really need him.
Any tank with at least +3 defense becomes Tiger (maximize defense to become immune to artillery and to use as battering ram against high hard attack value targets)
Any tanks with at least +2 Ini and/or +3 attack becomes Panther.
Any tank with at least +2 defense becomes Tiger unless ration Panther/heavy tanks is less than 3/2
Anything thing else Panther

About AT-Tanks. Early on +2 defense becomes Elephant for an early steel bunker (good counter vs IS-2), but usually later its always better to use Jagdpanthers. The lack of speed, fuel and ammo makes Elephant/JagdTiger weak on the offense.

If you missed to develop STUG III AT-tanks early on to upgrade them later then recruit STUG IV instead. They can switch mode to arty. Weak attack values but range 2, still good enough to protect against counter attacks during AI turn, or soften up dig in infantry. In arty mode they will gain quickly exp. without taking any losses. As soon they are 3 star it's time to upgrade.

PS Don't forget to get a couple of AT-experience early on!