Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

[ThvN]

Impressive listings, although I have one very minor equipment nibble: the 'sIG 33 II (Sf)' you have included was only deployed in Africa, and only about a dozen were made... The sIG 38(t) would be a better choice?

I wouldn't fret too much over the scale, PzC doesn't really have a 'fixed' scale, in some scenarios a unit is smaller than a company, but it could be a division later on. It's very abstract, that's why it works so well, there are few constraints as long as everything is in proportion.

I can't comment on the French listings, as they equipment file lacks a lot of common units. But it looks very nice. How is the MP testing going?

[the_iron_duke]

Impressive listings, although I have one very minor equipment nibble: the 'sIG 33 II (Sf)' you have included was only deployed in Africa, and only about a dozen were made... The sIG 38(t) would be a better choice?

Regarding the sIG 33, there were a few versions of it which totalled 370 in total production:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_33_Sel ... _Artillery

I don't have figures for the 'II (Sf)' model described in the game, though, so the 38(t) is eminently suitable. It will ultimately come down to points balancing - whatever looks like it will fit best with the relevant opponent's army composition and points.

Another small change would be to take the SdKfz 10/4 self-propelled anti-air from the flak battalion and swap it with a towed 37 mm AA gun. One could then add a SdKfz 10/4 self-propelled anti-air company to each of the panzergrenadier regiments, as descibed in the 43 Type Panzer organisation.

Another change could be to swap the Opel Blitz trucks for SdKfz 251/1 half-tracks for the regimental (not divisional) engineers, who are 50% truck/50% half-track.

It's good to have a little bit of leeway when trying to match respective army compositions. Speaking of which, I am thinking of making a scenario at this organisational level.

It's interesting thinking of the game scenarios at three organisational layers - an Army game, a Corps game and a Divisional game - and I think it works at all three levels. As well as different army compositions, each organisational level offers different terrain implications. Playing a Panzer Corps scenario at Army level means one's forces could consist of up to 150,000 men on a map 150 km wide. If one plays it at Corps level it could be 50,000 men on a map 50 km wide. At divisional level it could be 15,000 men on a map 15 or 20 km wide.

At divisional level a kilometre could be 3 hexes so it means terrain can be done differently with different settlement sizes (towns, villages, cities), opening the doors for things like urban warfare and airfields being three hexes long.

I am trying to think of a good setting for this divisional game. Some match-up from 1943 to 1945 that would work well in terms of the Panzer Corps game and how it represents units (the various Shermans and suchlike).

How is the MP testing going?

Too soon to tell. I shall have finished the Great Britain vs Germany scenario soon so if you want to play the role of the villainous Heer the part is vacant.

[the_iron_duke]

I have created a late 1944 British Armoured Division to play against the Panzer Division for a "game unit = company" battle.

I want to have a scenario where the German Panzer Division has no attached units as it's quite a self-sufficient combined arms formation. The British Armoured Division has only a medium artillery brigade attached (which is quite realistic as artillery was concentrated in Army Group Royal Artillery (AGRA) formations and artillery was attached out where needed). Since I am not attaching units to the Panzer Division, I feel it is appropriate to reduce the number of aircraft a little, in line with the reduced number of ground AA units. I have gone for three fighters, two tactical bombers and two strategic bombers for each side.

The British Armoured Division has been quite hard to research as there's less clear available information than on the German formations. I have summarised my thinking below:





Tank Brigade

This was composed of three regiments, each containing three squadrons of tanks (equivalent to a company) and also a mechanized infantry battalion. I have gone for a mixed brigade of two U.S.-made tanks regiments and one G.B.-made one. The two U.S. ones have one Firefly and two Sherman Mk Is, while the G.B. one has two Cromwells and a Challenger A30. The Challenger was use in limited numbers, usually alongside Cromwell Tanks.

The infantry battalion has four companies and a support company with heavy weapons, like those of the infantry brigade, but they travel in Bren carriers rather than lorries.

The armoured brigade also had a company's worth of AA tanks, but they were mixed up in the squadrons. I've decided to portray them as a game unit, as the British need some extra AA to counter the Germans' powerful AA guns.

Infantry Brigade

There were three infantry battalions each with four companies and a support company.

Unlike the German forces, the infantry brigade only had engineers at platoon level and so are too small for the game. Their engineers are concentrated in the divisional Engineer Battalion.

Divisional artillery

Two regiments each containing three batteries (equivalent to companies). One Regiment is equipped with self-propelled Sexton, the other with 25-pdr towed weapons.

Anti-tank Regiment

Like the artillery, under control of the Royal Artillery. From mid 1944 it had two batteries of towed 17-pdr guns and two batteries of Achilles self-propelled tank destroyers.

Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment

They used Bofors 40 mm AA guns, under Royal Artillery control.

Reconnaissance Regiment

This has been quite problematical to find information about as there seems to have been armoured car regiments and armoured reconnaissance regiments that included Cromwells. But then maybe armoured car regiments returned again. It's all a bit confusing so I've waved the game balance wand and have mirrored the German setup. So they each get four different recon units, one of which is a light tank. The British M5 is not technically a recon unit in the game, although it does have 3-hex vision. All four units were being used as recon units at the time, anyway.

Divisional engineers

Again, I've looked but I can't find much info on the internal organisation of this unit so I've gone for the same as the Germans (although they are all in lorries).

Attached AGRA artillery

They get two artillery regiments to balance the artillery numbers.

Regarding changes to the German forces, the sIG 33 got upgraded to a sIG 38(t). The two regimental engineer units (not the divisional) were 50% half-track, 50% truck so I decided to make one of them half-track (in the mechanized regiment) and one in a truck (in the motorised regiment).

[the_iron_duke]

Here's the layout of the two divisional-size British and German forces (game unit = company). I like how they look like two scorpions in the desert, the aircraft being the sting in the tail.

[the_iron_duke]

I found a couple of good pages on British Armoured Divisions which have helped clear up some of the areas of organisation I was unsure about:

http://www.kerynne.com/games/British11t ... ision.html

http://www.kerynne.com/games/British7th ... ision.html

I was right about the engineers as there are three engineer squadrons (companies) and one bridge-laying one.

The reconaissance element consists of:

- An Armoured Car Regiment of four AC squadrons

- An Armoured Recce Regt of three squadrons of Cromwells with A30 Challengers (or two Cromwells and an A30 Challenger in game terms)

- An independent machine gun company.

This tallies with tank numbers I've read about. So there is an option to leave the armies as they are or to change the Cromwell/Challenger tank regiment for a third Firefly/Sherman one and re-add two Cromwells and a Challenger as the Armoured Recce Regiment, along with an independent machine gun company. The German would then get an attached Tiger II and a Jagdpanther tank destroyer.

[the_iron_duke]

When I made the armies for the division vs division game I mistakenly included the non-1943 infantry versions and so the points difference became skewed when I updated them. It has been a bit of a blessing in disguise, though, as, combined with additional research, it has allowed me to recreate a full British Armoured Division for the scenario with a high degree of confidence in its authenticity.

The basic game unit represents a company (infantry), squadron (armoured, reconnaissance, engineers) or battery (artillery).

BRITISH ARMOURED DIVISION '44/'45





Armoured Reconaissance Regiment

1 x squadron of A30 Challengers
2 x squadrons of Cromwell Mk.VIIs

The Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment effectively functioned as a more mobile armoured regiment, giving a British Armoured Division 50% more (albeit weaker) tanks than a Panzer Division. The squadrons contained about three Cromwells for every A30 Challenger so I've modelled them as two Cromwells and a Challenger. Another option would be to use all Cromwells.

Armoured Brigade

3 Armoured Regiments each containing:

1 x squadron of Sherman Fireflies
2 x squadrons of Sherman Mk.Is

There is a bit of leeway concerning tank composition. Shermans were the most commonly used tank, with around 1 in 6 being Fireflies at Normandy to 1 in 2 by the end of the war. As alternatives, one division used all Cromwell tanks and others mixed Shermans and Cromwells.

Motor Battalion:

1 x company of British HW (43) infantry (w/ Bren Carrier)
4 x companies of British Infantry (43) (w/ Bren Carrier)

The Armoured Brigade also included an infantry battalion in lightly armoured vehicles containing four infantry companies and a support company with heavy weapons

Infantry Brigade

3 Infantry Battalions each containing:

1 x company of British HW (43) infantry (w/ Lorry)
4 x companies of British Infantry (43) (w/ Lorry)

The infantry battalions had four infantry companies and a support company with heavy weapons all using lorries.

Divisional Artillery (Royal Artillery)

Field Artillery Regiment (self-propelled):

3 x batteries of Sextons

Field Artillery Regiment (towed):

3 x batteries of QF 25 pounder (w/ Quad) towed guns

The organic artillery complement in a British Armoured Division was comparatively small but they were augmented by attached artillery units from AGRA (discussed later).

Anti-tank Regiment (Royal Artillery)

2 x batteries of Achilles self-propelled anti-tank
2 x batteries of QF 17 pounder (w/ Matador) towed anti-tank guns

An armoured division typically had 2 towed batteries of 17pdrs and 2 self-propelled batteries with either M10 3in SP (Wolverine) or M10 17pdr (Achilles). The Wolverine is not used in the game by the British. The Archer tank destroyer was in use from around September 1944 and provides an alternative set-up. Another alternative was to have the weaker 6 pdr instead of the 17 pdr towed guns.

Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment (Royal Artillery)

3 x batteries of Bofors 40mm (w/ Lorry) anti-air

They anti-air component is weaker than that of the Panzer Division, but by this stage in the war the Allies had greater air superiority.

Divisional Engineers (Royal Engineers)

3 x squadrons of Engineers (43) (w/ Lorry)
1 x squadron of Bridge Engineers (w/ Lorry)

Unlike in the Panzer Division, which has company-sized engineer units at regimental and divisional level, the British have them at divisional level only. Technically, the Bridge engineers may be a troop (the organisational unit below a squadron) rather than a squadron.

Independent Machine Gun Company

1 x company of British HW (43) infantry (w/ Lorry)

A rather curious unit - one single independent machine gun company - represented in the game by a heavy weapons unit.

ATTACHED UNITS

Armoured Car Regiment

2 x squadrons of Daimler armoured cars
2 x squadrons of Daimler Dingo scout cars

The Armoured Car Regiment was officially a Corps-level unit but they became attached to divisions on a fairly permanent basis. The composition of the squadrons was usually half Daimler armoured cars and half Dingo scout cars so I have portrayed them as two squadrons of each.

An alternative would be to replace the Daimler armoured cars with inferior Humbers which were used by some divisions in fewer numbers.

Army Group Royal Artillery (AGRA) detachment

Two AGRA regiments each consisting of:

2 x batteries of BL 5.5 inch towed artillery (w/ Lorry)

A large part of divisional artillery support came from Army Group Royal Artillery (AGRA) which was a large corps-level formation containing artillery that was deployed and attached to divisions on an as-needed basis.

I quote this on AGRA from one of the sources I list below:

AGRA (Army Group Royal Artillery) was a Corps level formation, typically consisting of:
Field Regiment (24 x 25pdr) sometimes self-propelled
Medium Regiment (16 x 5.5") in 2 Batteries each of 2 Troops
Medium Regiment (16 x 5.5")
Medium Regiment (16 x 5.5")
Medium Regiment (16 x 5.5")
Heavy Regiment (8 x 7.2" howitzer and 8 x 155mm)
Which, on average, would give each Division the support of 2 further Artillery Regiments.

So I have included two AGRA medium regiments each containing two batteries of 5.5 inch guns.

MAIN REFERENCES:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Ar ... rld_War_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Great ... e_1944.png
http://www.kerynne.com/games/British7th ... ision.html
http://www.kerynne.com/games/British11t ... ision.html

That last website has quite a few useful pages on British Second World War Army formations, in the 'WWII TO&E' sections on the left hand side of the page.

[the_iron_duke]

The British Armoured Division and late '44 Panzer Division (as I modeled slightly earlier in the thread) have good natural points balance:

'44 Panzer Division using SdKfz 232 8Rad as the 4th "mystery" recon unit = 16,757 points
'44 Panzer Division using SdKfz 234/2 'Puma' as the 4th "mystery" recon unit = 16,848 points
'44 British Armoured Division = 16,964 points
'44 British Armoured Division minus the Independent Machine Gun Company = 16,717 points

I would like a configuration that gives the Germans more points spent on ground forces and the British more on air.

[ThvN]

Very impressive research, nicely done. I'm more of a 'hardware' (equipment type and performance) enthusiast than an organisational expert, and your tables represent a more 'perfect' theoretical ideal situation, so I simply don't have enough ready knowledge to comment on them, other than that they are very good. (but I can always bore you with production numbers for sIG's etc. ). If you want to tweak the Germans, there are of course possibilities, depending on how far you want to stray from the official TO&E.

If you are interested in the 'mystery' German recon units, there is no mystery, they simply didn't have them. The Germans neglected to further develop recon vehicles, and were too late to introduce proper new equipment. Most of the attempts were either small-scale production runs (Panzer II 'Luchs', Sd.Kfz 234), or improvising with existing, obsolete, hardware (Panzer 38(t) and Panzer II recon versions). In practice, most units used very light equipment not represented in the game. So it is difficult to recommend any 'typical' unit as such a thing didn't really exist late in the war. You can use a cavalry unit and it would still be historically accurate.

BTW, towards the end of the war, the Germans increasingly used a lot of 'field expedient' units, called 'Kampfgruppe' (=combat/fighting group). These were rag-tag units, usually formed when existing (retreating) units were scattered but local command was still effective and able to organise the remains into ad hoc 'units'.

Some were fairly well equipped, some were units which were basically clerics and cooks. For some nice and weird examples, see http://www.cgsc.edu/CARL/nafziger/944GIAD.pdf, during Market-Garden there were more of these 'Kampfgruppen' (plural) than regular units, such was the disarray of the German army. For example, Luftwaffe (airforce) personnel that had no planes could be used as infantry. So there are certainly options for you to balance your units as you see fit.

BTW, about the British independent MG company, what I remember is that they were specialized 'Heavy weapons' detachments to cover 'gaps' in the TO&E of certain divisions, and later on even had flamethrowers as well. So that might be interesting if you need an extra 'Engineer' unit for balance. They would probably have Universal ('Bren') Carriers instead of lorries in 1944, although those were used as well.

[the_iron_duke]

Regarding the "mystery" recon unit in the Table of Organisation and Equipment, I expect it is supposed to represent a unit that had at least some rocket launchers in it but agree that expediency on the ground means it could be anything.

Concerning Kampfgruppen, I heard that troops that were ill but just about able to fight were concentrated in their own units - one would have to represent them with reduced strength points. About the same as a unit of cooks, perhaps.

I like the idea of making the Independent Machine Gun Company as an engineer unit with a Bren Carrier as it would make it a more interesting and unique unit and helps balance the engineer numbers compared to a German Panzer Division.

I think the game unit-as-company may be my preferred operational scale as it allows the maps to be a bit more interesting. Points-bearing flag hexes can become concentrated in fewer conglomerations with differing numbers of hexes for different settlement sizes. Here are a couple of airfields at this scale:

[the_iron_duke]

I believe I may have settled on the forces for the division vs division game. These are the changes from the divisional Tables of Organisation & Equipment:

- the British keep their Independent Machine Company as an engineer with Bren Carrier but the A30 Challenger in the Armoured Recce Regiment is downgraded to another Cromwell VII.

- the German "mystery" recon unit becomes an SdKfz 234/2 'Puma'.

- both armies receive an additional heavy anti-aircraft battery for defence of their "home" airfield - they won't have vehicle transport and there won't be any scenario air transport so they won't be much good for anything else. Both armies will have a fortified "home" airfield, three hexes in size, while there will be two other smaller capturable 2-hex airfields on the map. The Germans will get a 12.8 cm FlaK 40 and the British a QF 3.7 inch.

- the air forces are slightly smaller than for the corps-level game as I want the focus to be on the two ground divisions. The British have a very slight air advantage but the Germans have a lot more spent on air-defence (tempered slightly by the fact that their FlaK 36 can switch to decent anti-tank guns). The air forces are,

British -

3 x Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IX fighters

2 x de Havilland Mosquito Mk.VI S2 tactical bombers

1 x Handley Page Halifax Mk.III strategic bomber
1 x Avro Lancaster Mk.III strategic bomber

German -

1 x Focke-Wulf Fw 190A fighter
2 x Messerchmitt Bf 109G fighter

2 x Focke-Wulf Fw 190G tactical bombers

1 x Heinkel He 177A strategic bomber
1 x Junkers Ju 88A strategic bomber

This brings the total points of the two forces to:

[AXIS]Total units: 60 (cost=20766)
[ALLIES]Total units: 66 (cost=20721)

So a 45 point difference, which is pretty small. The difference is probably less in practise as the airfield-defending AA's lack of mobility render them less useful. Using a FlaK 36 instead of FlaK 40 for the airfield AA would reduce the points deficit slighty but I'd prefer to use the FlaK 40 as it can't be used for anti-tank work. Downgrading the Puma to a 232 8Rad would make the points difference 46 points in the Allies' favour. EDIT: Or the SdKfz 234/2 could be downgraded to a SdKfz/1 which would make the points difference 18 points in the Allies' favour.

I try and recompense points differences between the armies by giving a small amount of extra starting prestige. I can't decide whether to give 100% of the difference or 25% of the difference, as regular reinforcements are a quarter the cost of their points value. So I compromise and go for 50%. The numbers are so small the differences are largely academic anyway.

[the_iron_duke]

I have made further adjustments to the army compositions of the corps-level (game unit = battalion) Normandy game (not the divisional-level Normandy game!).

I have tried to simplify the armies and get them more historically authentic, where possible. The army proportions have also altered, the most significant of which is giving the British a slight air advantage. Here's the list of changes:

- all three British armoured divisions now have the same composition. So the tank complements for each division are now one Firefly, one Sherman Mk.I, one Cromwell. All three divisions now have self-propelled Achilles anti-tank.

- the British have lost their two attached Churchill tanks. This is partly for historical reasons, as Churchills tended to operate in independent brigades that supported infantry, and partly as a response to them having better tanks/AT now (and better air strength).

- the British lose a couple of corps-level anti-aircraft units. The Allies had air superiority and so didn't have the need for so much A-A. The Germans lose one.

- the German engineers' transport have been downgraded from half-tracks to trucks.

- the aircraft compositions have changed for both armies, with the Germans losing a strategic bomber for historical reasons. I am aware that to be truly realistic the Allies' would have even greater air dominance, but I'm happy for them to have just a slight advantage for gameplay reasons.

Here is the new order of battle:

BRITISH FORCES





1st Armoured Division:

1. 1/I - Sherman Firefly tank
1. 1/II - Cromwell Mk.VII tank
1. 1/III - Sherman Mk.I tank
1. 1/IV - 43 British HW (w/ Bren Carrier)

1. 4/I - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
1. 4/II - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
1. 4/III - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)

1. 7/I - Sexton self-propelled artillery
1. 7/II - QF 25 pounder (w/ Quad) towed artillery

1. 10 - Daimler AC recon
1. 13 - Achilles self-propelled anti-tank
1. 16 - 40 mm Bofors (w/ Lorry) anti-aircraft gun
1. 19 - Engineer 43 (w/ Lorry)

2nd Armoured Division:

2. 2/I - Sherman Firefly tank
2. 2/II - Cromwell Mk.VII tank
2. 2/III - Sherman Mk.I tank
2. 2/IV - 43 British HW (w/ Bren Carrier)

2. 5/I - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
2. 5/II - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
2. 5/III - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)

2. 8/I - Sexton self-propelled artillery
2. 8/II - QF 25 pounder (w/ Quad) towed artillery

2. 11 - Daimler AC recon
2. 14 - Achilles self-propelled anti-tank
2. 17 - 40 mm Bofors (w/ Lorry) anti-aircraft gun
2. 20 - Engineer 43 (w/ Lorry)

3rd Armoured Division:

3. 3/I - Sherman Firefly tank
3. 3/II - Cromwell Mk.VII tank
3. 3/III - Sherman Mk.I tank
3. 3/IV - 43 British HW (w/ Bren Carrier)

3. 6/I - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
3. 6/II - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
3. 6/III - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)

3. 9/I - Sexton self-propelled artillery
3. 9/II - QF 25 pounder (w/ Quad) towed artillery

3. 12 - Daimler AC recon
3. 15 - Achilles self-propelled anti-tank
3. 18 - 40 mm Bofors (w/ Lorry) anti-aircraft gun
3. 21 - Engineer 43 (w/ Lorry)

Attached units:

A. 22/I - BL 7.2 inch (w/ Matador) towed heavy artillery
A. 22/II - BL 7.2 inch (w/ Matador) towed heavy artillery
A. 22/III - BL 5.5 inch (w/ Lorry) towed artillery
A. 22/IV - BL 5.5 inch (w/ Lorry) towed artillery
A. 22/V - BL 5.5 inch (w/ Lorry) towed artillery
A. 22/VI - BL 5.5 inch (w/ Lorry) towed artillery

A. 23 - Daimler Dingo recon

A. 24 - QF 3.7 inch (w/ Matador) heavy anti-air

A. 25 - Bridge Engineer (w/ Lorry)

A. 26/I - 43 British Paras
A. 26/II - 43 British Paras
A. 26/III - 43 British Paras

Aircraft [Royal Air Force]:

R. 27/I - Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IX
R. 27/II - Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IX
R. 27/III - Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IX
R. 27/IV - Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IX

R. 28/I - de Havilland Mosquito Mk.VI S1
R. 28/II - de Havilland Mosquito Mk.VI S1
R. 28/III - Hawker Typhoon Mk.IB

R. 29/I - Handley Page Halifax Mk.III
R. 29/II - Avro Lancaster Mk.III
R. 29/III - Avro Lancaster Mk.III

GERMAN FORCES





1st Panzer Division:

1. 1/I - Panther G tank
1. 1/II - Panzer IVJ tank

1. 4/I - Panzergrenadier 43 (w/ SdKfz 251/1 half-track)
1. 4/II - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)

1. 7/I - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)
1. 7/II - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)

1. 10/I - Wespe self-propelled artillery
1. 10/II - 15 cm sFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery
1. 10/III - 10.5 cm leFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery

1. 13 - SdKfz 234/1 8Rad recon
1. 16 - StuG IIIG self-propelled anti-tank
1. 19 - 3.7 cm FlaK 37 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed anti-air
1. 22 - Pioniere 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) engineers

2nd Panzer Division:

2. 2/I - Panther G tank
2. 2/II - Panzer IVJ tank

2. 5/I - Panzergrenadier 43 (w/ SdKfz 251/1 half-track)
2. 5/II - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)

2. 8/I - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)
2. 8/II - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)

2. 11/I - Wespe self-propelled artillery
2. 11/II - 15 cm sFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery
2. 11/III - 10.5 cm leFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery

2. 14 - SdKfz 234/1 8Rad recon
2. 17 - StuG IIIG self-propelled anti-tank
2. 20 - 3.7 cm FlaK 37 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed anti-air
2. 23 - Pioniere 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) engineers

3rd Panzer Division:

3. 3/I - Panther G tank
3. 3/II - Panzer IVJ tank

3. 6/I - Panzergrenadier 43 (w/ SdKfz 251/1 half-track)
3. 6/II - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)

3. 9/I - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)
3. 9/II - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)

3. 12/I - Wespe self-propelled artillery
3. 12/II - 15 cm sFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery
3. 12/III - 10.5 cm leFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery

3. 15 - SdKfz 234/1 8Rad recon
3. 18 - StuG IIIG self-propelled anti-tank
3. 21 - 3.7 cm FlaK 37 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed anti-air
3. 24 - Pioniere 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) engineers

Attached units [Unterstellt]:

U. 25 - Tiger II heavy tank

U. 26/I - 21 cm Mrs 18 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed heavy artillery
U. 26/II - 21 cm Mrs 18 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed heavy artillery

U. 27 - SdKfz 222 recon

U. 28/I - 8.8 cm FlaK 36 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed heavy anti-air
U. 28/II - 8.8 cm FlaK 36 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed heavy anti-air

U. 29 - Bruckenpioniere (w/ Opel Blitz truck) bridge engineer

U. 30/I - Fallschirmjager 43 paratrooper
U. 30/II - Fallschirmjager 43 paratrooper
U. 30/III - Fallschirmjager 43 paratrooper

Aircraft [Luftwaffe]:

L. 31/I - Focke-Wulf Fw 190A fighter
L. 31/II - Messerchmitt Bf 109G fighter
L. 31/III - Messerchmitt Bf 109G fighter
L. 31/IV - Messerchmitt Bf 109G fighter

L. 32/I - Messerchmitt 410A tactical bomber
L. 32/II - Focke-Wulf Fw 190F tactical bomber
L. 32/III - Focke-Wulf Fw 190F tactical bomber

L. 33/I - Heinkel He 177A strategic bomber
L. 33/II - Junkers Ju 88A strategic bomber

----------------------------------------------------

Here is a breakdown of the unit type proportions:

British tanks: 9 units/4,221 points
German tanks: 7 units/4,560 points

British anti-tank: 3 units/1,299 points
German anti-tank: 3 units/1,059 points

(British tanks & AT combined: 12 units/5,520 points)
(German tanks & AT combined: 10 units/5,619 points)

British infantry: 19 units/4,258 points
German infantry: 19 units/4,627 points

British artillery: 12 units/3,661 points
German artillery: 11 units/3,357 points

British anti-air: 4 units/816 points
German anti-air: 5 units/1,249 points*

British recon: 4 units/620 points
German recon: 4 units/656 points

British fighters: 4 units/2,088 points
German fighters: 4 units/2,017 points

British tactical bombers: 3 units/1,618 points
German tactical bombers: 3 units/1,468 points

British strategic bombers: 3 units/1,356 points
German strategic bombers: 2 units/893 points

(British aircraft combined: 10 units/5,062 points)
(German aircraft combined: 9 units/4,378 points

* the German heavy anti-aircraft also double as decent anti-tank guns

BRITISH TOTAL: 61 units/19,937 points
GERMAN TOTAL: 58 units/19,886 points

So that's a small 51 points deficit in the Allies' favour.

Thoughts appreciated as then I can put this scenario to a play-test as it's, in other respects, ready to go and I have an opponent waiting.

[ThvN]

Hello, I re-read your TO&E with regards to the mystery recon units, I was bored and had to wait, and the '280 mm' weapon struck me as strange. Well, I managed to dig up the original document which has been used to provide the info for the pdf, and it's a typo, the '280 mm' weapons are 2 80mm mortars.

http://www.wwii-photos-maps.com/germano ... 00257.html

Since this subject seems to interest you, this is a photograph of a captured German document (1300 pictures in total), describing the TO&E of a 1944 Panzer division. I'll give a quick tour through the recon batallion, just for fun. Unfortunately it's hard to read due to poor quality, but I'll make some educated guesses.

My German is a bit rusty, but look at the third row, right hand side box, which reads "Panz.Aufkl.Abt." (=armoured reconaissance batallion), it's the box below "Panzertruppe". The symbols indicate the type and amount of equipment, in this TO&E (aug. 1944) the recon only has halftracks, no Luchs. I'm not sure why there is a difference with the pdf.

Top symbol is the 'Stab' (=staff) unit. Next row, the first on the left is the 'Versorg' (=logistics, supply) company with trucks.

Then the four actual recon units, the first three are armoured recon companies, each slightly different, the first one has what could be an artillery observation section or maybe an engineer detachment, the next one has light AAA weapons, the third seems to be a "le" (=light) unit, and the fourth is an armoured recon car company (which actually consists of halftracks). The difference is that in the latter case the halftrack 'cars' are used as mobile scouts, where the first three are recon companies (basically on foot) that are mounted in armoured halftracks with organic support (mortars, etc.), it's a different role on the battlefield.

The small symbols in the units are the types of weapon, the number underneath the amount. For example, the .|. is a machinegun. I see symbols for mortars, cannon, FlaK, but the calibers are very hard to read. The mortars are "m" (=medium), so those would be the 81mm (8cm) mortars described in the pdf.

The cannon are 75mm except for those in the armoured car company, those seem (barely legible) to be 2cm (=20mm autocannon), which would indicate that these are probably Sd.Kfz. 250/9. The 75mm weapons are probably the 'short' 75mm L/24 cannon (as is mounted in the Sd Kfz 233, so good choice there).
The FlaK are hard to decipher, probably 2cm.

Both types of halftrack (the 250 and 251) had versions which mounted these weapons, and both could carry the 81mm mortars, so I'm not sure which would be used, but probably the 250. So, that's my occupational therapy sorted...

[the_iron_duke]

That's an interesting ToOE website you've found.

2 80mm mortars makes more sense. 280mm would mean either rockets or giant naval and railway guns. I did wonder why, unlike the other listings, there wasn't a number showing the quantity so a typo would provide a credible reason.

I would be open to changing the German recon composition for the divisional game and making it a bit more even points-wise with the British recons but I can't find a way of giving the Germans more points elsewhere or reducing the British somewhere. At the moment it's:

1 x Panzer II Luchs
1 x SdKfz 233
2 x SdKfz 234/1

What do you think of the new corps-level game army compositions (posted above)? There is a small nod to the historicity of Allied air supremacy with the British being a tiny bit stronger at air-to-air and stronger in strategic bombers while the Germans have better anti-air (which double as anti-tank).

[ThvN]

Corps armies look nice, I'm not an expert in such formations, and I tend to pick flavour over uniformity, so I'm not a good judge here. Speaking of flavour, for the German armoured recon I have no perfect answers, but you could swap one of the recon units for a Kradschutzen? It's not a recon unit but it has spotting 3, and is cheap & fast.

[the_iron_duke]

Cool, it should be an interesting game. Thanks for your assistance in creating the scenarios, both from a scenario-building perspective and from the historical side, in getting the armies more authentic - you've been a great help.

I've got time to mull over the divisional-level game armies as I haven't started the map for that scenario yet.

[the_iron_duke]

Here's the map for the corps-level game. I added some more close terrain in the middle of the map since the previous version.

[the_iron_duke]

I found an interesting site with some Tables of Organisation & Equipment for 1944, including a Panzer Division chart similar to the one from the German archives, but for a specific division (the 21st), so it's interesting to look at the differences. Here are some of them:

- 5 recon companies instead of 4
- the first battalion in both of the panzergrenadier regiments have half-tracks (rather than just one) and the vehicles are of French origin
- the flak battalion has five companies (rather than three). It has the same two companies of 88 mm with the addition of 20mm companies
-the anti-tank battalion uses 88mm anti-tank guns
- there's an assault gun battalion using guns on ex-French Hotchkiss chassis
- the engineer battalion has two companies in half-tracks (rather than one)

http://spearhead1944.com/gerpg/21ger_rec.htm

http://spearhead1944.com/toe1.htm

[ThvN]

Wow, that is quite a bizarre outfit. After reading about it, this 21st Panzer division was apparently some sort of fast response force stationed and built in France, which would explain the many French vehicles. I also note a lot of conversions, some are very rare vehicles, like the 8cm 'Reihenwerfer' multiple mortars mounted on halftracks.

Some critism of the author of the descriptions: the graphics and text in the small pictures he posted look like cleaned up versions of the originals, and some are a bit wrong when comparing them to the more original looking top picture.

[the_iron_duke]

I'd like to understand the symbols more but the keys are in German.

I've also been thinking about what exactly the aircraft units represent in corps-level and divisional-level games. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Corps-level game unit = battalion (ground) = squadron (air) (de. = Staffel) = 7-16 aircraft
Divisional-level game unit = company (ground) = flight (air) (de. = Schwarm) = 4-6 aircraft

[ThvN]

Hi, for the air unit sizes, a small helpfull page might be these two wiki links, you can use symbols to compare some basic unit types between army and air force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_o ... ion#Armies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_o ... Air_forces

As for reading the TO&E tables, it's not something I'm very good at but I can help if you want. I can give a lot of info about most phrases and equipment types that are used, although there is a lot that I don't know.

If you want a guide to help read the symbols, one essential page is this one: http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany ... ls_43.html
A modest glossary is here: http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany/_abbr-army.htm

If you have an example that you need help to decipher, you can give me a link with some questions about what you want to know. Some pictures are simply too blurry too make out details, but some are good enough to read if you have idea of what to look for. For example, on one of those last links about the 21st Panzer div., the author cleaned up some words but altered them, for example he turned Pz.Sp.W into Pz. SPW. Now, my German is far from perfect, but my knowledge of equipment and the language is good enough to tell these things apart.

Pz.Sp.W PanzerSpähWagen =armoured recon car.
SPW means SchützenPanzerWagen =basically an APC, or armoured personnel carrier, in this case a halftrack. The Pz. prefix wasn't normally used for them, only 'le' (=light) and 'm' (=medium), which mean the Sd.Kfz. 250 and Sd.Kfz. 251, respectively.

And he confused the role of a recon unit with their type of equipment because he used the literal translation of the symbol, which can have some strange differences. This might seem like a minor issue, but these things matter at this level of research. So where he mentions the 1st recon company has 'armoured cars', the symbol in fact states they use halftracks. But they are used in the role that is traditional for armoured cars, so that's why they have that 'wrong' symbol. Just like cavalry these days doesn't mean a unit has horses, even though they are 'Hussars'.