Multiplayer scenario balance

Vulcan · Post by **Vulcan** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:53 pm

Does anyone know what the balance is on the multiplayer scenarios?

We have just played 'Along the road' and it appears heavily balanced in favour of the Axis .. certainly the Allied vehicles were no match for the Panthers and Tigers and in almost every encounter we got clobbered and hardly scratched them ..

It would be really helpful to know the relative size/points/balance of a multiplayer scenario before we started the game as it would affect strategy.

Of course, if someone tells me this scenario is finely balanced with identical points then I know the real reason I lost

Obsolete · Post by **Obsolete** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:53 pm

It's been a very long time since I played that one. Is it the one that takes place at night?

I thought things were fine, though perhaps a little to strong for the allies. Maybe they toned down the allies since then, as I said it was about a year ago.

I know from memory that MOST players over-value the axis, and that was a big reason why I used to have a field day in the MP games. The allies usually get more units to make up for the better axis units, giving the allies the advantage. But I'm certainly NOT complaining here

Vulcan · Post by **Vulcan** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:11 am

Thanks for the reply; we would find it really helpful to know the relative (or actual) points values of the two sides when selecting a multiplayer scenario. At the moment we are now going to try playing paired games back to back and manually aggregate the scores to derive a winner. This should allow us to even out the (perceived) imbalance.

I suspect (but have no proof yet) that as most of the multiplayer scenarios seem to be lifted straight from the solo game, the force mix is biased in favour of the side that the AI would normally take. This would match our perception that in many games the Axis player seems to have a distinct advantage in forces.

I would be pleased to be proved wrong though.

Obsolete · Post by **Obsolete** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:59 am

I am hosting a game right now. Yup, this scenario is the night-time one that I remember.

So far everything for axis looks just like from what I remember. I don't see why the allies can't win this one.. they used to have a bunch of Cromwells and Archers IIRC.

The only difference I see this year, is that the victory flag points have been added. However, it looks at first glance to even add more bonus to the allies. Well, wait for me to finish a few samples and then we'll see for sure.

Obsolete · Post by **Obsolete** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:19 pm

Well, my first scenario is coming to a close real quick. I think my opponent has only 1 infantry left or so

Basically the allies had the advantage until my opponent panicked and then paid the price in casualties. It also allowed me to free up the bulk of my armour to push down and bring everything to bear.

I did play a bit bad in some cases, and even did a bad gambit where I lost my Panther for nothing, but a good lesson learned to me. As I said, my opponent panicked which caused an entire turning point from then on, where I've been riding that right to the end.

If anyone has an advantage in this game, I'm still going to say it's the allies like it always was. The infantry seems to be pretty much on par. Set number of axis vs allied infantry. One piat to their one Shrek. One mortar to a mortar, one AT to another AT...

The armour gets interesting, because the allies have such nice toys, a couple archers, fireflies, cromwells, etc. And a whole set of auxilliary shermans. Not to mention a couple of really powerful things, like the Crocodile.

Even more power goes to the allies because of the way the flags are positioned.... and then to add even more power on top of this to the allies, they even get the First-Turn-Initiative advantage.

So... considering just these points alone, and the fact that after going through EVERY thread on the forum last night from start to finish, and not once seeing someone complaining that axis are too strong in this scenario, I'd have to say that the fault of the loss was most likely due to the player. Though there is a chance bad luck also played a part?

Vulcan · Post by **Vulcan** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:44 pm

Thanks Obsolete for the detailed analysis there, I wasn't expecting such commitment

When we played this scenario the Allies pushed forward hard but everywhere they met Axis armour that outmatched them. Perhaps bad dice played a part as even when the Allies retreated and set up defensive positions with crossfire the Panther or Tiger would weather the first shot and then destroy the ambushing tank.

Infantry seems well matched as you say. Perhaps I just played badly but this wasn't the first experience we've had with Axis superiority. We also played 'Clash Of Armour' which resulted in an even more extreme result (Allies crushed).

I would love to see the points assigned to each side when selecting a scenario for multiplayer.

Thanks again. I think the answer is that I must just try harder to hone my skills

Obsolete · Post by **Obsolete** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:08 pm

Hmm, I can't comment yet on Clash of Armour since I haven't even seen what the scenario looks like.

However, if you want you can set up a few password protected games for Along the Road (send it via pvm to me), and we can take some further examination.

If your units did not shoot at the tiger, I would estimate you had weaker units ready for it, or he was doing a fast move meaning your odds of hitting and hence, total kill % didn't quite pass the check to get those shells off.

I hope you're not one of those players who just keeps on trying to hit front end of armour, and then gets all upset when nothing blows up

That's really gambling it up.

I remember playing a desert scenario, and my opponent decided to march up all of his tanks right in front of both my fully loaded Matilda III's frontal armour. Then when he failed to score a kill, it was all the 'broken' game's fault, and not his un-sound strategy or unorthodox play of course

Vulcan · Post by **Vulcan** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:44 pm

No, I do know not to try and shoot a Tiger in the front .. old gamers tend to have learnt that lesson

Having said that, when defending you really don't have much choice as they tend to come at you from their best side. Most units are weaker than a Tiger although I was unlucky to have lost my Fireflys in the opening contacts ..

I don't think the game is broken .. far from it, as we are having a lot of fun (especially on the street fight map). My comments were merely about total force balance on this map although you seem to have analysed this scenario and discovered no disparity. I can therefore assume it was merely my impetuous nature that got me into trouble.

Just for the record, my opponent also thought the same as me here (and he won) but then, while we are old(ish) board gamers we are both still learning Battle Academy.

It would be nice to find a definitive statement somewhere about balance in the multiplayer scenarios though, can we assume that they have all been built as balanced (I hope so) ?

Many thanks for your comments.

Obsolete · Post by **Obsolete** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:43 am

I have not played ALL the MP scenarios, but a year ago (or was it longer now?) I did do runs through all the scenarios that were to be shipped with the first official release. They seemed pretty even back then, though I think the britts in the Desert Encounter were a slight favourte due to the way the non-parallel units were paired up.

Though, the worst I saw was early on there was a priest, (or was that a bishop) the britts had in that map that had literally infinite range on the board, and such a high firepower number that it could literally give the allies a free ANY SHOT ANY KILL once a turn. Needless to say that was game-breaking, but we nerfed it IIRC.

Personally, I think allies USUALLY have a bit of an advantage because of the issue with numbers. When the allies lose a couple tanks they have plenty more so no big deal. But when the axis loses a couple tanks the ratio is far more devastating, particularly if we are talking about Tigers, Panthers, and Kings here.

Interestingly though, the Desert Fort map has more axis tanks than the allies, and it does take place with much more open ground. HOWEVER, the allies do start with First-Turn-Initiative which blocks the axis from an overwhealming advantage there.