Concerns about the direction GS is taking

[Rasputitsa]

The only problem I have that I think can be agreed on and easily solved is the absence of the Shannon river. There's not much point to invading Ireland but this change wouldn't take too long. 49,22 to 52,18.
Getting to the grit the bigger problems are the lack of national morale or politics aswell as France won't fall in 2 turns, not by a long shot and that you can have units on the border with other countries but they still get surprised. Yes the first shots are always shocking even if they're expected but surely they should be higher if no units were ever on the border from turn 2 onwards.

It's not necessarily the unexpected attack which causes the shock effect, as much as the effect of being thrown from a peacetime situation into a shooting war. This has happened many times to different nations, there is almost always a delay in coming to terms with actual war, however much the attack has been expected.

[welk]

Actually you should just edit map25_nogrid.png, map50_nogrid.png and map100_nogrid.png. Then you can delete all the 3 dat files in the folder. When you then restart the game the maptiles will be generated again.

Just a pb : I have done this manipulation as test : no modification of the 3 no grid map, but erased the 3 data files. Iprecise that I made this test manipulation with a new entire original installation, after removing my first installation, to avoid eventual pb due to modding work : so, all directories and files were "original files".

Lunching the game, I noticed that the "new generated map works at level zoom 100 but it seems there is a big pb at level 25 and 50 : the map seems not correct in some localizations (Ireland, etc)

Take a look, at level 25



Any idea about the origin of this pb ? I think that at this time, waiting to found the origin of this bug (perhaps Stauff has a solution for that, I don't know), players who want to modify their map should better modify the individual tiles map and save them as security, to be able to copy them again if needed in the background directory when they want to use their map mod. I did that initialy and the new map worked fine. It seems that the generation of new tiles map does not work correctly after erasing the 3 original data files in background directory. Some bug ?

[pk867]

Are you mixing files between the 2 versions of the game? (ie. CEAW and CEAW-GS)

Since I can not see images of the other levels It appears that you have CEAW-GS files for Cities and map file, but are using the maps from the original version CEAW. We had totally changed the area concerning England and Ireland.

[welk]

Absolutly no mixing : I am modder for a long time and I know that modded files may, in some cases, cause pb. So, when I have to do a important test to verify a game process, I uninstall the game entirely, and then I install a new original version, non moddecd : in this case, I installed CEAW as I did at the fisrt time : the application setup install first the basic game, and then, a second windows open and I install GS. The installation used was so a "original normal installation", no mixed files. I am doing at this time a second test of control, I will say to you the result

Precision : I bought the game in October 2011, so I have the most recent version of MH- CEAW : GS 2.0 is in the application I have bought, not needed to download it separatly on the Slitherine site.

[pk867]

Hi,
Ok, but you have CEAW-GS cities with Rail cap which is not present in the vanilla CEAW.

Also the hex definitions are different between the two games. you are showing shaded land hexes that are out in the Sea areas NW of Ireland and NW of Scotland.

We could probably add the large lakes for Ireland which would impede movement. The scale of warfare in Ireland the river while present, would not affect combat that much.

This is the first time this has been brought up since CEAW-GS has been out.

[welk]

The version I use is the version I have bought, without any modification.

I do that :

1-I install the game, exactly following what asked to me in the setup program (to install CEAW by a first setup windows, and in second time, after success of first setup, a second setup start automatically and install GS, I do nothing as "individual action", I just follow the setrup instructions. I teste one time the game and all works fine, no pb with map at 25,50 or 100 level zoom
2-Then , I erase just the 3 data files in the bacground directory, as Stauffenberg said to do
3-Then, I lunch the game and the bug appears : correct map in level 100, but graph pb in 25 and 50 zoom level for GB/Ireland

I am at this time re-installing the game a second time, after unsinstalled it by the normal way, to do a ultimate test, I will give you the final result

It's the first time because perhaps no other mad plazyer has tried top do modification map

[welk]

At this time, I am doing the 3th verif :
After full automatic installation of the game (CEAWGold+GS2), and without any modification of the installed files, I lunch the game : all is ok, for 25,50 and 100 level zoom.

Thenb, I quit entirely the game

Then, I erase the 3 data "no grid map" as Stauffenberg said to do as tip (the 3 data files that are in Grand strategy Mod/image/background)
Then I lunch again the game
and same pb occurs : correct map at 100 level, and graph pb in Ireland at 25 and 50 Level
Precision : I use the GS 2.0 luncher, to play with GS, not the CEAW Gold luncher : so, no mistake in the process, and I did 3 complete verifications ( 3 times I did a complete and automatic installation, following the normal process, without anuy incident during installation) : anybody may do the same verification on his computer, I think there is a pb somewhere. Perhaps could you re-do the test, for a 4th verification, but I think the pb is real, not user mistake.

Above are screens of the 3th and last test :

100 : all seems work correctly



50: pb in Ireland


25 same pb in Ireland

[welk]

Precision : for the 3th test, I had made a backup of the Grand strategy Mod/image/background

When I replace this backup, the game works ok again at 25,5O and 100 level zoom : so, the pb comes evidently from the 3 new data generated fils and from the new tiles map generated.

Other precision : before each installation, I suppress all files and directories of CEW and GS 2.0 in the "my document" directory, to start with a complete new situation. After installation, I do not any modifications in the "my documents" directory, I just erase 3 data files in Grand strategy Mod/image/background.

I think you would now easy find the origin of the bug, the pb seems be localized in the 25 and 50 level zoom when 3 new data files are generated by the program

If origin of this bug is not founded, the best solution to modify the map will be to modify any individual concerned tile map and to save it somewhere, and in any case erase the 3 original data files without have made a backup of Grand strategy Mod/image/background. If not, the entire game needs to be re-installed, because any new generated map will work correctly after erasing these 3 original files.

[pk867]

Hi So you altered the map100. You need to alter the map50 , map_25 and the map_12.

If you notice for zoom level 3 (map_100) the map is correct for CEAW_GS. for the other zoom levels zoom level 2 (map_50) and zoom level 1 (map_25) is for CEAW MH.

[welk]

Heu... Sorry, I do not understand what exactly you mean :

1- I buy the game
2 - I install MH-CEAW with 2 automatic Windows, without any installation incident : the first setup install MH-CEAW, the second setup install GS. I have nothing to do, all process is automatic.
3- Stauffenberg say to me : "to modify the map, not needed to modify the individual map tiles as you did, just modify the global no grid map, then erase the 3 data files in the background directory and a new set of tiles maps will be generated".
4-I do that as test : Without altering any thing in the 4 maps no grid files, I just try to generate a new set of tiles map : I erase the 3 data files and I lunch the game (using GS luncher). In normal situation, I would have a new set of tiles map, working, as original set, because I HAVE NOT MADE ANY MODIFICATION ON ANY MAP.
5-But the result is : Map 100 works, map 25 and 50 does not work when I do a normal use of the game : using GS 2.0
6- There is evidently a technical pb during ther generation of new set tiles map by the program : the program is not able to generate a new correct set tiles map, even any map modification were made : the name for this kind of situation is : "bug"

Do you mean, in your anwser, that the 25 and 50 map are not adapted for GS, and that we, players, must not use these zoom level when we play GS after map modifications ? Or other thing ? English is not my native langage, sorry : may you give me some precisions, please ? If Stauffenberg could say to me something about that too, it would be great. I have not a map modification obsession by using global no grid maps, and I could without problem continue to modify the map only with modifications of individual tiles maps, but it seems ( cf Stauffenberg) that the normal process is to modify the global no grid maps (100,25,50 anbd 12) and then erase the 3 data files to generate new set of tiles map files, and I just would want to be able to follow this normal process. But when I do, there is the bug.

At this time is the situation. How can I do (or more exactly : what must I do ? )

[pk867]

Both games have their own directory structure. One background folder for CEAW and another background folder for CEAW-GS for some reason the files CEAW-GS directories have been changed to from the CEAW game. In both games the file names are identical.

Do you have the original zip file for CEAW-GS? If not, download CEAW-GS from the Slitherine website and use that to install over CEAW-MH.

Do that first and see if the game launches and there are no issues with the map.

Then when you delete or remove the *.dat files make sure you are going to the CEAW-GS background folder and not CEAW background folder.

It is a good idea to make a copy of the background folder from the game you wish to mod in a new folder away from the game.

The files in the new folder are then used to make alterations. In version 2.1 (ie. coming soon) will have river, Ocean, Sea and country names if the player turns that option on.

[welk]

As I said to you :

1- I have bought the game in October 2011 : One month old = I have THE MOST RECENT VERSION OF THE GAME, THAT INCLUDE AND INSTALL AUTOMATICALLY GS 2.0 AFTER AUTOMATIC INSTALLATION OF MH-CEAW As Slitherine said, this version nedd not to download GS 2.0 : GS 2.0 is in the setup application and lunch automatically the setup of GS. I have seen that with my own eyes : first setup is MH-CEAW, second setup is GS 2.0. All process is automatic, I have nothing to do. So, I am sure to use the most recent version of the game+ GS.2- I have seen that the structure of files is very complexe, and I am sure (I have verified that 3 times) that I work with this directory : Grand strategy Mod/image/Background.

I say there is a evident bug in the generation process of new set tile maps when you erase in Grand strategy Mod/image/background the 3 data files : even without any map no grid files modifications, the program is not able to recreate a correct set of new tiles maps for level 25 and 50 zoom. I think someone in your GS staff should try the entire process with a recent version of the game : if he try the same process, he will notice immediatly the technical pb If you have not a recent version of the game, I suggest you to ask Slitherine to download one, and to try an installation, then to try to erase the 3 data files and then to see the result : bug in level 25 and 50, correct situation with 100 level zoom : for 99%, I am sure you have a little bug somewhere, in the generation set tiles map process. I have made 3 complete installations, 3 complete process of erasing 3 data files, and in the 3 cases, the technical pb occured. I am familiar with modding game, and I work with some précision, in the 3 cases, I am sure for 100% to have worked in the Grand strategy Mod/image/background, no doubt with that.


So, it is not very important for me, as modder, because it is more easy to modify individual tiles map at all level zoom (25,50,100) and to save them ( to modify entire maps files is very long, because big files are not easy to work, register these kind of files needs very long time. With my way, players have just to copy the tile map fils in the directory, with all other files of the mod. With the "normal process, players have to erase the 3 data files and errors may occurs. In addition, upoload on internet individual little tiles map files is more easy than very big and heavy complete map files




But if I was at your place, I would verify this "bug" situation in details : to have a bug somewhere is always a (perhaps future)pb.

[Samhain]

The only problem I have that I think can be agreed on and easily solved is the absence of the Shannon river. There's not much point to invading Ireland but this change wouldn't take too long. 49,22 to 52,18.
Getting to the grit the bigger problems are the lack of national morale or politics aswell as France won't fall in 2 turns, not by a long shot and that you can have units on the border with other countries but they still get surprised. Yes the first shots are always shocking even if they're expected but surely they should be higher if no units were ever on the border from turn 2 onwards.

It's not necessarily the unexpected attack which causes the shock effect, as much as the effect of being thrown from a peacetime situation into a shooting war. This has happened many times to different nations, there is almost always a delay in coming to terms with actual war, however much the attack has been expected.

I know but surely war would be expected if units were on the border apart from the usual border police and therefore when the shooting starts it would be less shocking. I'm suggesting decreasing the shock if say there was more than 3 garrisons or 1 of any other type of unit except maybe for submarines on the border and increasing it if there wasn't. This would disproportionately affect the allies of course but they're disproportionately favoured by it as it is as even though the Axis kick off and therefore don't get any shock from the actual shooting starting the allies don't either. Perhaps a loss of 10 effectiveness as it was expected due to the ultimatum.

This is the first time this has been brought up since CEAW-GS has been out.

Slightly long explanation follows.
I had thought of bringing it up around the time of the first GS release but I thought it would be petty. Now that there's not much more to be fixed I thought this would be as good a time as possible before any final release that wouldn't have it in and then it wouldn't be worth making another release which just adds in a river that isn't even near the capital of a country that wasn't even in the war and is of virtually no use. I had thought of adding in Cork and Galway, 2 port cities but if Dublin only produces 1 then they wouldn't produce anything and wouldn't be worth the effort anyway because of the atrocious economy and the presence of so many people who had lived through a war of independence and a civil war who still weren't old yet, including the prime minister.

[Wallabi]

...They had exploding power of 13-20 tons of conditional trinitrotoluene - its only 2 dozens of traditional heavy bombs, not like day of judgement weapon ...

As the exploding power was in fact 13 - 20 kilotons (not tons), the number of traditional heavy bombs should be around 2 000 dozens.

Cheers,

Wallabi

[Rasputitsa]

I know but surely war would be expected if units were on the border apart from the usual border police and therefore when the shooting starts it would be less shocking. I'm suggesting decreasing the shock if say there was more than 3 garrisons or 1 of any other type of unit except maybe for submarines on the border and increasing it if there wasn't. This would disproportionately affect the allies of course but they're disproportionately favoured by it as it is as even though the Axis kick off and therefore don't get any shock from the actual shooting starting the allies don't either. Perhaps a loss of 10 effectiveness as it was expected due to the ultimatum.

My point is that it is not the expected/unexpected aspect that causes the shock effect, it is that forces are now in a shooting war, probably for the first time. Troops exposed to fire for the first time tend to seek shelter, however, after some experience they can tell when fire is coming their way, or not, and can function better. No amount of training can prepare people for the real horror of war when it finally comes, however long it has been expected.

Russia is an example, the German attack was expected, the build-up was observed, but there was still chaos when the bombs actually started to fall. The French and British in 1940 had months and months of 'Sitzkrieg', during which to prepare, but they still suffered a large disrupting shock effect when the shooting finally started.

The great advantage the Germans and Japanese had early in the war, was that their forces had been in action before the main battles commenced, the Germans in Austria and Czechoslovakia, the Japanese in Korea and China (this is not to minimise these earlier events, but they are not part of CEaW-GS) .

During the occupation of Austria 50% of the German tanks broke down, littering the roads back to the border, this was the first time they had undertaken a major movement operation and even though it had involved no fighting, there was still large scale disruption. The Allies did not have the advantage of these 'practice' runs, they had to learn the hard way and each nation in turn had to cope with the shock of the initial fighting.