Concerns about the direction GS is taking

[Crazygunner1]

It seems that most players and developers favours a more historical aproach of the game. Recently the changes that have been made, has really streamlined the "story" and there are very few options left for different scenarios. I believe that the fun of this game has always been the ability to exploit different strategies that were avaliable to the Germans in reality but not necessarily the way the "story" went. It seem now that the game is dangerously close to becoming a "shot at the dice". So few strategical options narrows the game down so much that the only factor that makes a difference is "chance".

Does anyone share my thoughts?
Crazyg

[Diplomaticus]

You definitely have a point.

For example, several people have lamented in this forum that a North African campaign for the Axis has become so unattractive that many (most) players have just abandoned it.

I do sometimes miss the craziness of the vanilla game, with German players building fleets and duking it out for the conquest of North America, and other such ahistorical avenues.

It's a balancing act, isn't it? And it's not just a balance of "freedom" vs. "historicity." The design team also has to take into account play balance, which is often the trickiest matter of all.

On the bright side, the recent game of Moriss vs. Supermax certainly shows that the crazy factor is alive and well in CEAW. Look at what happened in that game--1939 blitz of France, Spain activated in '40, wild and furious see-saw battles on the Russian steppes, chaotic cat & mouse in the Middle East, and (!) a successful Spanish amphibious invasion of Norfolk Virginia!

[welk]

The most important, in my opinion, is that they think to made all things as reversible. If they allow to turn on/off their new elements or option, or if they integrate these in the general.txt, with possibility to modify all things = no problem for me. But it would effectively be perhaps dangerous to "close" the game in "historical way" without allowing modification by players in option on/off or in general.txt. At this time, the general.txt and explanations in the GS 2.0 manuel allow players to do some important and funny modifications on "new orientations", and its a very good thing, I hope this "developpment strategy", that allow "independant choices" for players will continue in the future versions of GS.

[jaywalker32]

It seems that most players and developers favours a more historical aproach of the game. Recently the changes that have been made, has really streamlined the "story" and there are very few options left for different scenarios. I believe that the fun of this game has always been the ability to exploit different strategies that were avaliable to the Germans in reality but not necessarily the way the "story" went. It seem now that the game is dangerously close to becoming a "shot at the dice". So few strategical options narrows the game down so much that the only factor that makes a difference is "chance".

Does anyone share my thoughts?
Crazyg

I am definitely in agreement with you. When I first started playing CEAW I jumped right into GS, and initially found the game to be great fun. However, I soon found the emphasis on "historicity" to be overly restrictive and was inhibiting attempts at trying "what if" strategies, and consequently lowering the game's replayabilty as well reducing the "fun factor".

The game engine itself is excellent, but I have had to make modifications to the general.txt and scenario files to allow the Axis more strategic options. However, my biggest lament remains the inability to play GS beyond 1945, as I've expressed in previous posts. IMHO this is probably the most restrictive aspect of the historical approach. No matter how good you are at playing the Axis side you know you will never ever be able to progress beyond your capabilities because you're just not allowed the time to do so.

I've stopped playing CEAW for a while now, although I still follow developments in this forum. While I applaud the efforts being made with the future version of GS, I'm afraid I see only more historical limitations being introduced. It may be that I'll eventually play the vanilla game, just to satisfy my craving for world domination

jaywalker

[filo]

However, my biggest lament remains the inability to play GS beyond 1945, as I've expressed in previous posts. IMHO this is probably the most restrictive aspect of the historical approach. No matter how good you are at playing the Axis side you know you will never ever be able to progress beyond your capabilities because you're just not allowed the time to do so.



+1
will this be adressed somehow in a future GS version?
hope so...

[Rasputitsa]

You could say that the vanilla game is still available if you want a more varied game, the GS mod was specifically made to provide a more 'historical' feel, which it has achieved. The problem will always be, that if you introduce historical factors, then you will introduce some of the same limitations that the historical leaders had to face.

I am enjoying the GS mod and if I feel that it is getting stale (which I do not expect), I can always turn back to the original game, or make use of the modding opportunities in the 'general.txt' file to adjust the game to open up other possibilities. There are others more capable than me who are producing scenarios, which will stretch the scope of the game further.

[filo]

is there a mod for GS that extend time frame beyond december 1945?(usually my games freeze when reach that date)
or there is a way(maybe a simple way ,i'm no expert ) to modify some files to obtain this?

[welk]

However, my biggest lament remains the inability to play GS beyond 1945, as I've expressed in previous posts. IMHO this is probably the most restrictive aspect of the historical approach. No matter how good you are at playing the Axis side you know you will never ever be able to progress beyond your capabilities because you're just not allowed the time to do so.



+1
will this be adressed somehow in a future GS version?
hope so...

+1 for me too.

The war after May 1945 is not a "fantasy" way : war could had more long duration if Germany had began "total war economical mobilization in 1940-41 and if the "occupation politic attitude" had been different with ukainian nationalists and in general in Russia : perhaps, war would have ended in 1946 or later, in 1947. So, to force the game ending automacically in 1945 is a excellent sample of danger to "close" the game : I would be able to fight after 1945 (perhaps not 1950 and later, but 1946-1948 could be correct)

[Crazygunner1]

I would be able to fight after 1945 (perhaps not 1950 and later, but 1946-1948 could be correct)

Is the game realy fun after 45? What is there to fight for? Either have you conquered the world or lost it by then....?

[Plaid]

Its way impossible to survive with axis past 1946 anyway against reasonable opponent. Check Supermax' old AAR for example. He captured Britain, USA and Canada and knocked out UK, but still soviets were slowly advancing forward.
Game will need super major redisign with adding say 6 more levels to all techs and more "modern" unit classed to start with. If you simple remove time frame from game "as is" it will be extremely inbalanced this late years anyway.
Also I have heard that GS team is not allowed to change time period or map size from original CEAW.

[Plaid]

Can you clarify please, what special "what if" closed by GS team? From my point they only try to close exploits as allied mass suicide in which Morris excelled or blobs.
Only closed opportunity I remember is invasion into north america and canada. I personaly dont like this change, though have to agree that germany was totally unavailiable to do cross-atlantic invasion in 1940-41.

[Diplomaticus]

And don't forget the American Manhattan Project!

The Bomb was built, after all, with Hitler in mind. By August 1945 the U.S. would most likely have been able to force surrender--so long as there was a good chance that the Enola Gay wouldn't get shot down. I don't see the war going into 1947 unless somehow the Americans were prevented from dropping the nuke.

[Plaid]

I don't think nuclear weapons were superiour fighting armament in 40s.
They had exploding power of 13-20 tons of conditional trinitrotoluene - its only 2 dozens of traditional heavy bombs, not like day of judgement weapon (while they were much more expensive and "dirty"). More like psychological weapon, same as german late war balistic rockets.
The Bomb was dropped in Japan mostly to field test it, rather then to achieve something, as country had terrible air defence system in 1945 (actually they never had good one, unlike germans).

[welk]

I think that 2 situations could have modify "dates war" : 1/ Germany in "total war mobilization" in 1940/1941 (not only in 1942) 2/ USA entry in war in 1942 (Japan attacks in 1942, not 1941, or Japan attacks URSS and not USA before 1942-1943,etc). I think to allow 1946-1948 dates should have allowed more flexibility for alternate scenarios of What if? In the same idea, to allow start in 1936-1938 would have been good for other alternate scenarios with free Austria and free Czechoslovakia. I will make these scenarios, but it'as pity to have not correct dates in game. Interessant What if? are not only in "historical rails" ( 1939-1945 war operations) but also in very different political situations (i.e : Italia as Allied in 1934 Vs Germany to defend free Austria, etc). In my opinion, CEAW should not be "closed" in WW2 only, the engine game should be opened and should allow "political alternate what if" during 1933-1948 to allow players to explore new situations and to make what if scenarios. But it's a dream : I will do what I can with what I have...

Sample : in 1934, Poland government had made a secret proposition to the french government for a preventive war against Germany, after conquest of power by nazis. Could be funny to make a scenario about that, with limited victory conditions (Poland+ France Vs Germany, with forces of 1934, and perhaps a Czechoslovakian intervention, perhaps Italia as Allied, etc)

Other sample : A. Hitler is dead in airplane accident in 1932, Germany remains Republic and stays neutral. In 1935 occurs a war in med. sea between UK and Italia : Italia + Bulgaria + Turkey attacks Greece, that had win the war of 1922 between Greece and Turkey. Objective for Turkey is to reconquer Smyrna, Bulgaria want Thrace and Italia want conquests in west greece and Crete. UK defens Greec.

Other sample : in the same political situation, colonial rivality between France and UK in middle-east. France, allied with Italia, try to conquer more positions in middle east, for oil supply. What if ? a war between UK and France+Italia ?

etc

CEAW coul be a very good "tool" to explore original situations

[Samhain]

The only problem I have that I think can be agreed on and easily solved is the absence of the Shannon river. There's not much point to invading Ireland but this change wouldn't take too long. 49,22 to 52,18.
Getting to the grit the bigger problems are the lack of national morale or politics aswell as France won't fall in 2 turns, not by a long shot and that you can have units on the border with other countries but they still get surprised. Yes the first shots are always shocking even if they're expected but surely they should be higher if no units were ever on the border from turn 2 onwards.

[afk_nero]

For me I think options are alive and well. I love GS and all the mods. I think we are currently seeing tons of variables without losing the historical feel. I used to get very annoyed by the total disregard for reality in the vanilla game. I like this game because it allows me to change history.

My only thing I would like to see is the ability to beat the russians, this nearly happened. That said I am sure that this game will continue to evolve.

[welk]

The only problem I have that I think can be agreed on and easily solved is the absence of the Shannon river. There's not much point to invading Ireland but this change wouldn't take too long. 49,22 to 52,18.

You could do that yourself in few time (less than 1 hour, I think), using the little tool I created for these kind of work :
viewtopic.php?t=29083
(Key grid tool for easy map modification)

You have just :
1-To find the exact file map (using my tool)
2-To modify these graph file with paint as full PNG
3-to modify the map and scenario file codes in txt (blocnotes), according the new graph map files, using excel page and the quick modding card I created, that collects all modding informations I founded on the forum
(the link to download it in on this thread :
viewtopic.php?p=269697#269697

[welk]

Using my Key grid map tool, I founded the exact files you have to modify to create Shannon river :

map50_nogrid42
map50_nogrid41
map25_nogrid12
map25_nogrid11
map100_nogrid120
map100_nogrid155
map100_nogrid156
map100_nogrid191
map100_nogrid192

These png files compose Ireland on the maps zoom 25,50 and 100

These png files are located in Grand strategy Mod/image/background

Paintbrush is just needed to modify them, Gimp (not so easy to use for calques, if you are not familial with) is not needed

Don't think I could do that for you : I have drunk irish whisky this morning, and I see now 2 or 3 Ireland on my game

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Actually you should just edit map25_nogrid.png, map50_nogrid.png and map100_nogrid.png. Then you can delete all the 3 dat files in the folder. When you then restart the game the maptiles will be generated again.

[welk]

In other termes, it is not needed to edit each separated tile map file, as I though ? Good tip, it saves time thanks

That means that I have to re-do my modding work (I had added new Islands in the separate tile maps, and not on the global maps, thinking that these global maps did not work (I had made a test, but without erase the 3 data files, so the modifications I had made on global maps did not work and my - false - conclusion had been that the 3 global maps had no utility in map modification)

But your tip gives me a new "little modding idea" for the map : I will test what gives a very clear white and black map, for the fun