vs. Men of War vs. Theatre of War vs. etc...

[Laxen]

DSWargamer: Have you tried Advanced Wars for the DS? Have tried it a bit (don't have a DS though) and it's really fun and I have friends who loves it. It's turn-based tactics at a nintendo level with some interesting features, although it's not in a classical wargame setting.

[teamgene]

I remember 45s and LPs and 8 track and cassette and beta and VHS. My Apple IIe had a mouse but I don't remember using it. The joystick got a workout though.

I'm not sure I want to have a device on my lap to poke and prod all night like I do with the desktop. I do wonder how long before the mouse is a thing of the past.

The tablet is by touch, so no mouse needed.

[MrsWargamer]

My DS must have library for the wargamer is

Advance Wars (both of them)
Allied Ace Pilots (not a bad flight game)
Age of Mythologies
Age of Empires (both much better with turns than their RTS originators)
B-17 Fortress of the Sky (if you like shooting things)
Civilization Revolutions (I think the DS release was the only one that did well)
Commander Europe at War (from here)
Front Mission (it's a game of mechs with turns)
Great Empires Rome (from here)
Heavy Armour Brigade (it's a tank sim)
Il2 Sturmovick Birds of Prey (flight sim)
Panzer Tactics (think Panzer Corps lite)
Steel Horizon (naval board game looking)
Stratego Next (nice version of the classic)

There are likely a few others, but that is my must have list for the military gamer. In addition to TAC Heroes

Now getting back to hand held devices in general.
If you don't plan to read a lot of 8.5x11 page sized books in full colour with illustrations, then getting a 10.1 tablet is in my view a bit silly. Because a 7 inch tablet is likely just as good for a bit of web browser action on the go, and you don't need 10.1 to read common paperback book sized pages. But I DO plan to use it to read a LOT of books mainly model references and history references from people like Squadron or Osprey that I have hundreds of pdfs for that have gone out of print. Because they are niche small print run publications.

People that claim they can do anything a tablet can do, but on their phone, are idiots trying to play up the worth of a smart phone for not so smart reasons. No I don't think smart phones are smart things to watch video on. They are stupid for playing games on beyond meaningless games. And they are sure stupid for reading books on. They're phones. And unless you have a decent phone package, you likely have no reason to have one at all too.

I don't want a tablet for games. But I will expect it to play them. And a 10.1 screen is plenty enough screen to make it worth it. It's a great deal better a screen than a DSi XL or a PSP. But I can understand those whining it won't fit in a pocket. I have NO plans to ever put anything worth 300+ bucks in my pocket though. It goes in the safety of my carry all or it stays in the house.

Desktops, ok I suppose. Mine is just a massive storage device. It holds over 5TB of video files. I don't use it for anything else. My laptop is more powerful, so it's the place I play games. If I want a big screen, I can plug it into my 40 inch Sony. The nice thing about the laptop, is I can pick it up and walk out the door too.
And I have learned during a few power outages, laptops don't care if the power goes out. The desktop dies, the laptop doesn't. I can get up and walk to the hospital and plug into their reliable power supply with the laptop being left on the whole time It's handy eh.

The desktop has had it's day. It no longer has so much more power it is always the best machine in the house. It can't lay claim to the largest screen as that belongs to the TV and my laptop can use that on a whim. And I can use the internet and download to the laptop just as easy as large drives on them are now common place too. I have currently more than 300 gigs of free space on my laptop, and this thing is completely crammed with stuff as well.

I figure game design is at least a 2 year workload at the very least. Maybe I'm totally wrong.
I just know that in 2 years tablets will be a lot more common, Windows 8 will be old news and we will either be playing wargames on them, or wargame makers will have become that much more a thing of the past than they already are.

Sink or swim gentlemen. Be a part of the future, or a thing of the past.

[Laxen]

Age of Empires (both much better with turns than their RTS originators)

I'll pretend I didn't hear this. Age of Empires 2 is the best game ever

[TempV]

I like you are making a skirmish game. After Silent Storm there weren't any pure skirmishes. Amount of AFV's in the mentioned games (CoH, MoW) is absolutely unreal. In fact, majority of WW2 fights were infantry battles. Anyway at skirmish scale you'll have no more than 1-2 tanks or halftracks. I also like turn-based approach, it reminds me tabletop skirmishes (actually I'm looking for forthcoming Osprey's Bolt Action). I wish you luck and hope you'll make some urban fighting in Stalingrad afterwards.

[Xerkis]

In fact, majority of WW2 fights were infantry battles. Anyway at skirmish scale you'll have no more than 1-2 tanks or halftracks.

Whenever I have mentioned “tanks” in any of my posts – this is exactly my line of thinking as well. One maybe two tanks on the board at any one time –the rest… Infantry. Where the real fight is.

[MajVonRyan]

In fact, majority of WW2 fights were infantry battles. Anyway at skirmish scale you'll have no more than 1-2 tanks or halftracks.

Whenever I have mentioned “tanks” in any of my posts – this is exactly my line of thinking as well. One maybe two tanks on the board at any one time –the rest… Infantry. Where the real fight is.

The main problem with tanks / halftacks would be the distance they can cover, both firing across and moving. However, the 400 x 400 metres size map (large size), and large streets, building combined with close fighting 'hand to hand or building to building would be fun.

Would it be possible to build damaged buildings with two or three sides which the tropps can enter? If they can not be build as one unit (building), could they be build up for from two or three smaller units much like a (2-3) small walls? 'placed one at a time'

[teamgene]

Part of the problem is realism. At squad level the units do not react unpredicatably as they do in real life. For instance at the battle of the bulge, a german squad ambushes three sherman tanks at a bridge with panserfausts and they also machinegunned the crews bailing out. The third tank bugged out. In a game it would turn around and blow that squad away.

That third tank was one of the luckiest tanks in the war, running away from the infantry squad to meet a Tiger platoon, fires at the tiger with no effect and again bugs out before the tiger fires back. Runs into another tiger in the narrow streets of a town. The tiger just misses them when they turn down another street, get ambushed by panzerfausts that also miss! They eventually make it back to the US lines.

[MajVonRyan]

Part of the problem is realism. At squad level the units do not react unpredicatably as they do in real life. For instance at the battle of the bulge, a german squad ambushes three sherman tanks at a bridge with panserfausts and they also machinegunned the crews bailing out. The third tank bugged out. In a game it would turn around and blow that squad away.

That third tank was one of the luckiest tanks in the war, running away from the infantry squad to meet a Tiger platoon, fires at the tiger with no effect and again bugs out before the tiger fires back. Runs into another tiger in the narrow streets of a town. The tiger just misses them when they turn down another street, get ambushed by panzerfausts that also miss! They eventually make it back to the US lines.

Very true 'realism', What book are you quoting from? I like reading mil history and enjoying finding new or sometimes old books to read. Have a look at this site: http://www.leapinghorseman.com.au

[Xerkis]

Part of the problem is realism. At squad level the units do not react unpredicatably as they do in real life. For instance at the battle of the bulge, a german squad ambushes three sherman tanks at a bridge with panserfausts and they also machinegunned the crews bailing out. The third tank bugged out. In a game it would turn around and blow that squad away.

That third tank was one of the luckiest tanks in the war, running away from the infantry squad to meet a Tiger platoon, fires at the tiger with no effect and again bugs out before the tiger fires back. Runs into another tiger in the narrow streets of a town. The tiger just misses them when they turn down another street, get ambushed by panzerfausts that also miss! They eventually make it back to the US lines.

I would love to sit and listen to those men from that tank. Just sit and listen to them for hours on end.
Wars are full of increadable stories like this.

[teamgene]

I too read a lot, but that quote was actually from a military channel program on battle of the bulge on 'Greatest tank battles' show. One of the guys they interviewed was in that tank. They got separated from their unit(707 tank battalion i believe) due to they couldn't get their tank to start because of the cold when the unit moved out.

[MrsWargamer]

There is only one wargame I consider to be the ultimate in realism to the point that all the insanity of the design is worth it in the experience.

Advanced Squad Leader, a board game, and it has absolutely no equal in wargaming. Some come close, but only close. Steel Panthers was perhaps as close as any have ever gotten. Just a shame the people sitting on the rights to Steel Panthers are unlikely to ever get the hell off of them too and re release it suitable for modern computers (which is the only thing wrong with that game being able to claim being the best computer wargame ever made at it's scale). If someone were to re release Steel Panthers fresh and completely ready for Windows 7 and not just a patch up job, I'd likely drop 200 bucks for a copy and smile while paying.

I own ASL, and most fans of the game will tell you, if you have ASL, you don't need any other wargames, and likely don't have any time for other wargames any way as why would you waste good ASL time to play something else?

The beauty of ASL, is try as you might, you can't really play a single scenario the same way twice. The game enjoys almost complete re playability because of that and yet still people are making new scenarios for it all the time anyway. If I added all the scenarios of ASL together, it likely would exceed all the playable scenarios/campaigns (whatever you want to call them) of almost all of wargaming on the computer. And it is often amusing just seeing all the odd unlikely improbable results of a playing of ASL.

You just can't predict what is going to happen from turn to turn during a playing of the game. Even when I lose, it's often amazing just witnessing the results.
How many games can you name, where losing doesn't really matter much to the fun factor eh.

[teamgene]

I put Kampfgruppe as the best of the computer games for platoon level. Steel panthers was a disappointment to me as infantry died like flies in it without the sense of panic and desperation you got in kampfgruppe especially as the germans.

On ASL, its not playable. You either love it or hate it, but its just not playable. You spend all night arguing over line of sight instead of playing. We ended up just coming up with rules for blind panzerblitz. You have a referee that decides what you can and cannot see, so if a unit is hidden, he is not placed on your board. It of course took 3 people to play, but was much more fun, LOS was easily decided. We had rules for opportunity fire. It was still panzerbush, but was fun. We found SPI's sniper though very limited with the map, much more playable than ASL. In the end, our ASL and Sniper maps and counters got more playing time as extra's for a role playing sci-fi traveller game than for what they were intended.

[MajVonRyan]

There is only one wargame I consider to be the ultimate in realism to the point that all the insanity of the design is worth it in the experience.

Advanced Squad Leader, a board game, and it has absolutely no equal in wargaming. Some come close, but only close. Steel Panthers was perhaps as close as any have ever gotten. Just a shame the people sitting on the rights to Steel Panthers are unlikely to ever get the hell off of them too and re release it suitable for modern computers (which is the only thing wrong with that game being able to claim being the best computer wargame ever made at it's scale). If someone were to re release Steel Panthers fresh and completely ready for Windows 7 and not just a patch up job, I'd likely drop 200 bucks for a copy and smile while paying.

I own ASL, and most fans of the game will tell you, if you have ASL, you don't need any other wargames, and likely don't have any time for other wargames any way as why would you waste good ASL time to play something else?

The beauty of ASL, is try as you might, you can't really play a single scenario the same way twice. The game enjoys almost complete re playability because of that and yet still people are making new scenarios for it all the time anyway. If I added all the scenarios of ASL together, it likely would exceed all the playable scenarios/campaigns (whatever you want to call them) of almost all of wargaming on the computer. And it is often amusing just seeing all the odd unlikely improbable results of a playing of ASL.

You just can't predict what is going to happen from turn to turn during a playing of the game. Even when I lose, it's often amazing just witnessing the results.
How many games can you name, where losing doesn't really matter much to the fun factor eh.

I agreed, Squad Leader / ASL, is one the greatest wargames ever made, it could of been even greater on a computer

[Grimnirsson]

On ASL, its not playable. You either love it or hate it, but its just not playable. You spend all night arguing over line of sight instead of playing

Nonsense. ASL is perfectly playable and if you had a LOS debate actually stop your game then it's your fault, not a problem of the game - roll a die to decide what your eyes can't decide and just move on...

[teamgene]

On ASL, its not playable. You either love it or hate it, but its just not playable. You spend all night arguing over line of sight instead of playing

Nonsense. ASL is perfectly playable and if you had a LOS debate actually stop your game then it's your fault, not a problem of the game - roll a die to decide what your eyes can't decide and just move on...

Wish it would have been that simple, too big of ego's in our group. It was a rather large military gaming club and we had some that took things more seriously than others. End result it was easier to just agree to play panzerblitz.

[MrsWargamer]

The last person to person ASL I had the pleasure of, was often played in my home, with each of us drinking a beer while pushing card board. My adversary was cool with just dice rolling and it was either my way or his way if it came to a matter of confusion.

Sadly my ASL opportunities have been rather severely scarce for along time. Thankfully Slitherine efficiently killed this hell by releasing Battle Academy that regardless of what anyone wishes to think, likely was what ASL always should have been.

On vs Men of War and Theatre of War hheheheheheheheeh saw Theatre of War in Steam the whole lot of it 75% off. AAAAALMOST thought hey might be ok finally. Read a few forum posts, gave myself a smack in the forehead. Nope, that total and completely worthless excuse for some of the worst wargame software ever foisted on the wargaming public is not even worth 25% of the original price. I think after viewing some comments, I would not want it if it was free. I guess that is why after all this time, I never actually did download it free.

Junk is after all junk.

I would like you guys to get this game finished soon though.