Knights

[whitehorses]

I was trying to work out a hypothetical fight between Superior Knights with Heavy Armour & Elite Legionaries with Armour, not sure if I have this right or not. Still...

Neither is Disrupted when they charge & countercharge each other.
The Legionaries & Knights are both in open terrain.
Neither outnumber the other.

Impact
For each combat, Knights get +1 for Lance, both Legionaries & Knights get 2 dice for Impact. The Knights have a +1 PoA, but both still need 4's on 2 x D6's to cause a Cohesion Test. The Knights get to re-roll 1's, the Legionaries 1's & 2's

Melee
If neither are advantaged after the Impact, it goes to Melee.
For each combat, the Legionary Bases fight 1st & 2nd Ranks with 2 x D6, the Knights with 2 x D6 per front Base.
The Legionarries are +1 Melee for Skilled Swordsmen, but not against Mounted Swordsmen which is what Knights melee with.
The Knights are + for Better Armour
So the Knights are +PoA , but again both Legionarries & Knights still need 4's on a D6 to cause a Cohesion Test.

So assuming I've calculated it right achieving +1 in Impact or Melee isn't any better than no PoA
So is it better to avoid such combats until you outnumber or get a Cohesion Test on your opponent & achieve ++ to Melee?


Cheers,
Jer

[lawrenceg]

Not quite right:

In close combat, the opponents POA are relative to each other so if side A is + then side B is -.

This means the side on + needs 4 to hit, but the side with no + fights at -, needing 5 to hit.

I'm not sure where it says that in the rules, probably the section on "combat mechanism"

[rbodleyscott]

Hi.

Impact
Firstly there are no countercharges as such. The Impact POAs already take into account the troops being charged taking appropriate action. Therefore, although the charge target may be assumed to be countercharging by the POAs, it is not moved and does not count as "charging" for the purpose of the POA definition.

Thus legionaries who receive a charge by knights (shock mounted) get + (Assume that front ranks ground their pila, rear ranks throw their pila then brace the front rank), but legionaries who charge knights don't. (Assume the knights have countercharged and the legionaries are not braced to receive them).

So, unless the legionaries charge the knights, they have + in the impact phase for being impact foot. The knights also have + for being lancers.

This cancels out so both sides are on 0 POA and need 4s to hit.

If the knights had been on a net + as you thought (such as if the legionaries charged the knights instead of waiting to be charged), this would automatically mean that the legionaries would be on -. Therefore the knights would need 4s to hit, but the legionaries would needs 5s.

However, if the knights charge the legionaries, the POAs are even and both sides need 4s. Re-rolls are as you state.

The cohesion test is triggered by losing the combat. If either side inflicts less hits it has lost and must test. Once again re-rolls apply.

Melee
As you say, the swords cancel either other out.

The knights are on + for better armour, giving them a net +, and thus the legionaries a net -.
The number of dice are as you state.

The knights need 4s, the legionaries need 5s to hit.

If either side suffers more hits than it inflicts it must test cohesion.

If by the end of this the legionaries are still steady (not disrupted, fragmented or broken), the knights must break off.

[malekithau]

A + means you are hitting on 4s and your opponent on 5s. So assuming a legio BG of 4 1 rank against a knight BG of 4 1 rank. Each is fighting with 8 dice at impact with (I'm assuming your POAs are correct) Knights getting 4 hits and 1 or 2 rerolls so possible 5/6 hits. Romans get 3 hits approx with probably 2 rerolls - approx 4/5 hits. Statistically the knights should win but only by one hit so the Romans lose the combat and have to take a cohesion test at -2 assuming no general in range. Numbers are just rough don't you maths genii persecute me!

I really have no idea what you are talking about when you refer to 4s on 2 d6 for a cohesion test, probably just a misunderstanding of the mechanics I suspect. Cohesion tests are caused by things such as losing a close combat (which the legio probably will) suffering 1HP3B from shooting or a general in line of command lost within 3 mus. If the legio roll 2 4s on 2d6 then they will fail the cohesion as that is 8 -2 = 6 - drop one cohesion level.

John O

Edit ***Too slow - thought all you European types wopuld be in bed.***

[shall]

Well I was in bed...

Seems pretty well covered by the above but yes indeed

4s and 5s to hit

Initial CT for the Romans is tough due to -1 for losing to lancers

Also not mentioned above - iof the Knights fail to DISR the Romans they breka off and get ready for another go

Pretty big advantage to the knights but the Roman Quality can hold them at times

Si