Completing The Full FOG Series – suggestions for a way forwa

deeter · Post by **deeter** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:08 pm

Just do the Samurai list then.

Deeter

Old_Warrior · Post by **Old_Warrior** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:10 pm

Bummer! I will have to come into a nice inheritance so I can send you guys the money!

Lysimachos · Post by **Lysimachos** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:47 pm

And what about the idea of inserting in the scenario editor with the next releases some units of the Biblical period, so to give the opportunity for gamers to create at least some custom battles of that period?
It would just be needed to complete the Assyrians, to create the Hittite and the Babylonians and to add some specific characters to the Early Arab in order to represent the Libyans and the Nubians, already having the ancient Greeks to create the Myceneans, the Persians to use for the Medians and the Skythians for the Cimmerians.
This would be a really limited effort that would give anyway the chance of playing some scenarios with the Chariot Age armies!

Rosseau · Post by **Rosseau** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:44 am

I am a computer wargamer, not a TT player. So no offense to the TT grognards. But who cares about:

“Decline & Fall”
“Wolves From The Sea”
“Oath of Fealty”

Release Fog 2/Age of Rifles and get ready to make some dough, above and beyond this narrow TT audience you are catering to. Assuming that it is within your programming capabilities, it will appeal to a much wider audience. Not to repeat myself, but I am done with these $25 expansions for these esoteric armies. It's ridiculous. Unless you have a fan base large enough to buy these planned expansions and can make it worthwhile. If so, the best to you.

kilroy1 · Post by **kilroy1** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:02 am

Rosseau wrote:I am a computer wargamer, not a TT player. So no offense to the TT grognards. But who cares about:

“Decline & Fall”
“Wolves From The Sea”
“Oath of Fealty”

I do... and I'm not a TT player.

kilroy

Rosseau · Post by **Rosseau** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:34 am

Just another bunch of sprites (and stats we could mod ourselves) in the D.A.G., while the game system itself languishes... wouldn't you rather the devs work on a campaign option or something a bit different? Could be I'm just not into various periods of history enough to get excited about it.

Old_Warrior · Post by **Old_Warrior** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:35 am

Yeah Rousseau! We want those Vikings and Normans! Urrah!

(the Swedish Marines I call the Vikings, my ancestors!)

TheGrayMouser · Post by **TheGrayMouser** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:56 am

Rosseau wrote:I am a computer wargamer, not a TT player. So no offense to the TT grognards. But who cares about:

“Decline & Fall”
“Wolves From The Sea”
“Oath of Fealty”

Release Fog 2/Age of Rifles and get ready to make some dough, above and beyond this narrow TT audience you are catering to. Assuming that it is within your programming capabilities, it will appeal to a much wider audience. Not to repeat myself, but I am done with these $25 expansions for these esoteric armies. It's ridiculous. Unless you have a fan base large enough to buy these planned expansions and can make it worthwhile. If so, the best to you.

Really? The armies of Belisarius, let alone Vikings and the armies of the friggin middle ages are somehow esoteric? Sorry but armies in the genre of Age of Rifles are esoteric! Very few people are interested in the Crimean war , the Franco Prussian War , nor all the Spanish American revolutionary wars, a much smaller audience than the tiny ancient and medieval fans, Now I personally would love to see a remake of Age of Rifles but I dont get what you think is so ridiculous?. I never heard of the TT game prior to this game comig out , and i imagine most players whom bought this game had either, and i do want to see these expansions. I would also LOVE to see a campaign game for this engine, but i certainly wouldnt expect it to be a free download. Ideally, they could make a decent stand alone ancients campaign game that allows one to import /export results of tactical battles into the camapin engine, (much like matrix games Empire in Arms napoleonic game) The single player game certainly could use some love, but not necasarily any major overhalls, a few strategic tweaks is all it needs to make a very good game into an amazing game.

Rosseau · Post by **Rosseau** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:31 am

I didn't say anything about "free." In fact, I was amazed the BA campaign option was included with the patch. I actually think they should have put it in the MG expansion and charged for it.

I was thinking more FoG Civil War than Age of Rifles. But being the game is coded for ancients, I am probably out of my mind.

stockwellpete · Post by **stockwellpete** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:03 am

deeter wrote:Just do the Samurai list then.

Deeter

I would love to see 16thC Samurai stuff as I am a big fan of Kurosawa's medieval epics, but I suppose you would have to class it as "Renaissance warfare" because of the firearms, particularly as the Portuguese and Dutch played a part in those conflicts. One possibility though is if Slitherine decides that FOG:R is not financially viable then maybe they might eventually allow us to develop the units ourselves (if our new "coders" group gets the green light). Similarly, we might eventually be able to develop some of the armies that Lysimachos is referring to.

I don't know if you have tried any of my scenarios, but I have done a few Renaissance ones including Pavia 1525 and the Nine Years War in Ireland (culminating in Kinsale) and they work fine as wargames, but their one big drawback in historical terms is that you cannot reproduce the shooting power of the arquebuses and early muskets. In tests I have done with the scenario editor, the handgunners average out at 1.5% hits a turn whereas I think a more realistic casualty rate might average at 4 or 5%.

stockwellpete · Post by **stockwellpete** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:22 am

I can understand where Rosseau is coming from although I am somone who would also like to see those expansions come out asap. I already have some scenario and campaign ideas in my head for those periods.

In terms of developing FOG there is still a lot to do - including such elements as weather, buildings and a campaign facility for starters. Some players have suggested more substantial changes to the game around issues such as command and control, skirmishing and combat resolution, for example. Whether Slitherine has plans to develop any of these beyond the time when the last expansion pack comes out, I don't know. And whether some of these improvements would actually require a version 2 of FOG is also something that I am not sure about. The bottom line is, of course - would a FOG2 be financially viable?

Old_Warrior · Post by **Old_Warrior** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:53 pm

I prefer that the modules come out slower and that the engine gets updated to include buildings, more fortifications, etc.

Add in ladders ... that kind of thing. Towers and so on.

Eventually this series should be similar to how you see a Total War: Medieval battle played out with towers being pushed up against walls and so on.

But put out a module twice a year at most and enhance the game engine more. Would also allow the design team to work on OTHER game projects too.

Lysimachos · Post by **Lysimachos** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:27 pm

I prefer that the modules come out slower and that the engine gets updated to include buildings, more fortifications, etc.
Old_Warrior

I like the idea. If in this way Slitherine could better manage the problem of having little time to spend on FoG, it would be possible to edit all the remaining books, maybe except "Lost Scrolls", releasing with each add on the little implementation the game, already great, just need to become amazing!
Moreover, slowing down the publishing rate, would probably also stir up more interest of the gamers in every new expansion boosting the sales.
In fact, if you're still trying to enjoy all the facets of the last expansion, it will be more difficult to be interested in buying a new add on, while, if you've got time to explore all the possibilities of a single book, then you'll like the idea of having a new one to buy!

Old_Warrior · Post by **Old_Warrior** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:35 pm

Yes, at first I was for "I want my fav. module to come out." but now am more dedicated to seeing the ENTIRE series done over a longer period of time. That Empires of the Dragon will not see light of day is a bummer but as long as the other three make it that works. But without the towers and ability to attack a castle and all that or just have fortified camps for Caesar I feel that the series is lacking some important elements.

One of the pictures on the back of the TT books is of an army storming a castle. I think it is on the back of the S&S book. I would like to be able to do that in the game.

TheGrayMouser · Post by **TheGrayMouser** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:01 pm

Rosseau wrote:I didn't say anything about "free." In fact, I was amazed the BA campaign option was included with the patch. I actually think they should have put it in the MG expansion and charged for it.

I was thinking more FoG Civil War than Age of Rifles. But being the game is coded for ancients, I am probably out of my mind.

Civil War would be nice. I am guessing though the engine is probobly better suited for CW or Napoleonics than say, for Ren ( which I'd really love to see happen)

CharlesRobinson · Post by **CharlesRobinson** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:21 pm

I really want ALL of the expansions to come out - I am tired of the European centric wargaming. I am a fan of both the computer game and the table top. I cannot possibly collect all of the armies for the Table Top version of the game and the computer game allows me to experience the other armies that I may never be able to actually see or play on table top. I see this game as a complement to the TT rules.

I am all in favor of slowing down the release of expansions to that ALL of the books can be released - even if it is in small pieces.

This company sells their products on the internet and therefore is an international company. That meens market you products internationally.

I do not have any coding skills - if you guys can save this game then more power to you.

This is only one of 3 computer game series that I have (FOG, COD, and WH40K).

I planned to buy any FOG related titles including any FOG:R or ROG:N or anything else, but if they cannot finish the expansions, then I am not sure I can trust them on fully supporting any other products that they produce.

Sad, but you go by a company's track record when you make those investments with you money - especially with this economy.

Please save this game!

Rosseau · Post by **Rosseau** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:10 am

I understand your passion, CharlesRobinson, but I don't think coming out with all the expansions will save the game. But only the devs would know that for sure based on the loyal customer base that includes you. Would the Paradox model of Darkest Hour and Iron Cross work here? Are there modders with the capabilities if the code is released? I can say that DH and to a lesser extent IC were bargains for me.

And yes, I would certainly go back to buying FoG expansions if castles and ladders were included

MasterChief81 · Post by **MasterChief81** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:54 pm

Rosseau wrote:I am a computer wargamer, not a TT player. So no offense to the TT grognards. But who cares about:

“Decline & Fall”
“Wolves From The Sea”
“Oath of Fealty”

Release Fog 2/Age of Rifles and get ready to make some dough, above and beyond this narrow TT audience you are catering to. Assuming that it is within your programming capabilities, it will appeal to a much wider audience. Not to repeat myself, but I am done with these $25 expansions for these esoteric armies. It's ridiculous. Unless you have a fan base large enough to buy these planned expansions and can make it worthwhile. If so, the best to you.

I've never played a TT game (sounds interesting, just don't have the time). However, I AM CHOPPING AT THE BIT TO GET MY HANDS ON WOLVES OF THE SEA! As far as the $25 expansions are concerend, I have purchased everyone, even if not particularly interested in that era, because I have found at least one army list in each that had something new and each expansion purchased broadens the amount of potential human opponents available for multiplayer games (which is the true strength of this game!) Another significant reason for purchasing each expansion is to support continued development of this game as well as others. I am hoping to see many of our recommendatons included in future games and doubt very seriously that would happen if we aren't purchasing thier product. Cheers to all and see you on the Field of Glory!

Supervark · Post by **Supervark** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:29 pm

Ok I have only just started playing FOG in the last few weeks. And I think it is a superb game. There are a couple of things I would like to see incorperated in the next expansions on the game playing side.

1 Make all armies in all expansion packs playable against each other. I know it is not historical but it would be fun. Would love to see the romans take on the early crusaders and other match ups of that ilk.
2 Let you chose what size army you want to fight against. Eg you have 400 points but give the AI 800 points or only 200 points depending on the type of army.Yes you are supposed to have balance but sometimes you need a bigger challenge and other times you just want to slaughter .
3 A better break down of losses on individual units and who inflicted them at the end of the game not just the break points.
4 Lastly be able to keep track of what battles you have won annd lost against the AI with what army, what size and what terrain was used.

I am not intrested in playing multi player online but I do enjoy the single player mode and these tweaks I would like to see as an option in forth coming expansions.

Supervark · Post by **Supervark** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:40 pm

oh and one other thing. I only found out about the company and this game by shear chance, so perhaps a better marketing stratergy would be helpful. There are many people out there who do not know about this game and would purchase it if they knew.

Completing The Full FOG Series – suggestions for a way forwa

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