FoW!

pomakli · Post by **pomakli** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:12 am

An enemy unit fires (I have a visual contact!) and then falls back really deep in his territory!

But I can follow it´s whole movement and see his final destination on the map, although the rest round this unit is invisible.

Which means, the territory is actually out of my sight, in FoW!

Pls. chance this!

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:37 am

This is by design - firing reveals a units position until the start of its next turn.

Acererak · Post by **Acererak** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:56 pm

There is a problem in MP with this issue as well, since some human players are cautious in their advance and put some suppressing fire into suspicious spots...and that gives away their position and whole movement for the rest of the turn...

Any chance of correcting this?

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:42 pm

It is not a bug - it is by design. Firing units reveal their position.

Acererak · Post by **Acererak** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:03 pm

iainmcneil wrote:It is not a bug - it is by design. Firing units reveal their position.

Any chance of redesigning then?

No computer expert and not sure if technically posible, that´s all. Thanks!

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:24 pm

if they did not revea lhow would you find units in cover or shooting at you from outside your visual range? It is designed to do this on purpose and works fine for me

Post by **pipfromslitherine** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:41 pm

I believe they mean that as the unit then moves for the rest of the turn you can still see it. This is, IIRC, to simulate the fact that you'd tend to keep track of something that just fired at you.

Cheers

Pip

gib10 · Post by **gib10** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:09 pm

Yep but when they move deeper into the forest for example, you have lost visual confirmation because LOS is blocked. That does need to change.

But, out in the open moving then ya, they stay spoted. Basically, if the firing unit is spoted and los is not blocked then yes they would be seen by any unit able to trace LOS to them but not the forest example below uness they are adjacent to another enemy unit.

Since you already have a routine to check LOS I don't see this as a huge code change but I know how I design

Gib

LOGAN5 · Post by **LOGAN5** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:49 pm

gib10 i agree, once you are out of LOS your position should not be shown, it will give us a chance to hide..

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:56 am

Thats just not going to work

Hidden units that fired would never reveal themselves. The reason they are hidden is because they are out of your LOS.

PirateJock_Wargamer · Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:51 am

pomakli wrote:An enemy unit fires (I have a visual contact!) and then falls back really deep in his territory!

But I can follow it´s whole movement and see his final destination on the map, although the rest round this unit is invisible.

Which means, the territory is actually out of my sight, in FoW!

Pls. chance this!

Is that right? In MP I am sure if I get shot at and the unit withdraws out of LOS I immediately cannot see him. Or am I imagining that?

Acererak wrote:There is a problem in MP with this issue as well, since some human players are cautious in their advance and put some suppressing fire into suspicious spots...and that gives away their position and whole movement for the rest of the turn...

This is different as I assume this is an enemy unit you currently don't have LOS on. I'd agree when it fires its position should be revealed ... "Hey what's that noise?" However if it them moves you should not be able to see where it has gone ... you don't have LOS. Sort of like outdated intelligence. At time X Unit Y was at Location Z; it's now time X+1 and Unit Y may still be at Location Z (if he's stupid!) but it's more likely he's somewhere in Area B.

I think of hidden units as something different ... you have LOS but can't see them as they are sneaking about (not sure what this is, possibly infantry in tree or building cover - is that right?) or on a hill and haven't fired. However when they do something silly like trying to kill my units they are revealed. So if they have fired your units with LOS can see them until they move out of view.

Anyway that's the 'logical' way I think of it .... now I'm going to have to go and try it out

jomni · Post by **jomni** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:00 am

My problem is if the enemy has artillery. Even if he retreats and not possible to hit by direct fire... Arty can still attack it.

pomakli · Post by **pomakli** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:03 am

PirateJock wrote:
pomakli wrote:An enemy unit fires (I have a visual contact!) and then falls back really deep in his territory!

But I can follow it´s whole movement and see his final destination on the map, although the rest round this unit is invisible.

Which means, the territory is actually out of my sight, in FoW!

Pls. chance this!
Is that right? In MP I am sure if I get shot at and the unit withdraws out of LOS I immediately cannot see him. Or am I imagining that?:

Yes!

Sorry, but; it is right!

hidde · Post by **hidde** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:49 am

On the surface it can look stupid the way it is but it's a game after all and I think gameplay would suffer if this is changed. Most units should be hidden almost all the time and I belive it should be very frustrating to have it like that. Maybe if scouts were to reveal units further away than two tiles but then they would be some kind of supermen with x-ray vision able to see through buildings and deep into woods and whatnot.
I'm with jomni though, when it comes to artillery. If you know a units position only because it has fired and none of your units has LOS it shouldn't be possible to attack with arty. Or it would at least be with a very reduced accuracy,

pomakli · Post by **pomakli** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:59 am

hidde wrote:On the surface it can look stupid the way it is but it's a game after all and I think gameplay would suffer if this is changed. Most units should be hidden almost all the time and I belive it should be very frustrating to have it like that.

Sorry, but if we say the game has LOS; (it has!) then it should work , but it doesn't in this case!

LOGAN5 · Post by **LOGAN5** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:34 pm

I think the main complaint is on the retreat, after you have been spotted and you run into the woods, they really shouldn't be able to see where you went unless it was in LOS with enemy units.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:45 pm

We could change it so only the tile they end on is revealed, not the tiles they move through? I'd be happy with this change.

pomakli · Post by **pomakli** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:52 pm

LOGAN5 wrote:I think the main complaint is on the retreat, after you have been spotted and you run into the woods, they really shouldn't be able to see where you went unless it was in LOS with enemy units.

That's the point!

Ian, if it's not possible to chance this design completely, then we have to accept your offer!

Better then nothing!

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:01 pm

It is possible but I think it would make the game worse not better

The change above will not harm gameplay so if people feel its important we can look at it. It just feels to me that time would be better spent on other improvements!

PirateJock_Wargamer · Post by **PirateJock_Wargamer** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:55 pm

iainmcneil wrote:We could change it so only the tile they end on is revealed, not the tiles they move through? I'd be happy with this change.

My vote would be NOT to make the change as it doesn't really address the LOS issue. As you say time better spent on other improvements .... which would be?

FoW!

FoW!

Re: FoW!

Yes!

sorry, but..

Logan5 and Ian!