Another argument between me and Mr Ruddock

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shadowdragon
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Post by shadowdragon »

nikgaukroger wrote:
shadowdragon wrote:
I'll try to express the options more simply - ignoring other situations, exceptions, etc. under the conform rule:

1) BG's must either (a) conform and end in a normal formation, which is a rectangle

Well that option is based on the an incorrect assumption - that a rectangle is the only normal formation - so must be discarded. This leaves you with option 2, and the conclusions that naturally follow that.
Sorry, that should have read....

1) BG's must either (a) conform and end in a normal formation, which is a rectangle "in this case" (i.e., the case presented).

I don't know if Dave assumes that a rectange is the only normal formation. I don't. However, I do believe that a rule which says in one place "you must be in a rectangle except when pulled out of that formation by a compulsory move" and then in another place (which is a compulsory move) says you must end in normal formation leads to different interpretations and ambiguity. If option 2 is the correct and only possible true reading of the rules as written, why, in heavens name, is it even necessary to say something as redundant - i.e., "you must end in a normal formation.....but since this is a compulsory move any formation you end up in will be by definition a "normal" formation". Why not say that files in contact will coform and therefore the BG will sometimes not be in a rectangular formation, however files not in contact must line up with the nearest file in contact.

I do not argue that it isn't possible to conclude 2). I did until trying to understand Dave's point of view (*God have mercy on my soul*). I still see the point of view of 2) but I also see that of 1).
shadowdragon
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Post by shadowdragon »

Would this help, if the irrelevant / relevant - depending on your point of view - rule stated...

"The battle group must end its conform move in a normal formation (i.e, bases must not be separated). Each file not in contact step forward to line up with the nearest file already in contact with the enemy."

I have a question about the figure on page 72, which is labelled "Front and Flank conform". The charging BG on the right of the figure does not end up in a rectangular formation but in a stepped forward formation. Why? Is this to keep the pivoting / shifting to a minimum? The end state has no "value added" compared to the BG conforming to a proper rectangular (i.e., the outermost file only fights as an overlap in either case). The implication that minimum moving to conform takes precedence over a rectangular formation - in all conforming cases.
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Post by expendablecinc »

shadowdragon wrote:...I have a question about the figure on page 72, which is labelled "Front and Flank conform". The charging BG on the right of the figure does not end up in a rectangular formation but in a stepped forward formation. Why? Is this to keep the pivoting / shifting to a minimum? The end state has no "value added" compared to the BG conforming to a proper rectangular (i.e., the outermost file only fights as an overlap in either case). The implication that minimum moving to conform takes precedence over a rectangular formation - in all conforming cases.
IMO conforming has nothing to do with forming a rectancle - that is what reforming is about. Conforming is about lining up face to face with enemy by the minimum distance, hence the outcome in the diagram.
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Post by shadowdragon »

expendablecinc wrote:
shadowdragon wrote:...I have a question about the figure on page 72, which is labelled "Front and Flank conform". The charging BG on the right of the figure does not end up in a rectangular formation but in a stepped forward formation. Why? Is this to keep the pivoting / shifting to a minimum? The end state has no "value added" compared to the BG conforming to a proper rectangular (i.e., the outermost file only fights as an overlap in either case). The implication that minimum moving to conform takes precedence over a rectangular formation - in all conforming cases.
IMO conforming has nothing to do with forming a rectancle - that is what reforming is about. Conforming is about lining up face to face with enemy by the minimum distance, hence the outcome in the diagram.
I agree that's what the diagram implies.

Now, to consider another example. If hammy's rearmost BG was a tiny bit further back so that the front edge of that BG was a fraction behind the back edge of the front BG, then Dave's BG would not conform but remain as is since it would have to split into two separate parts to conform (edge-to-edge), which it cannot do unless the rule "specifically" allows this. Right? No one sees a problem with that, right?
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