POA's

CharlesRobinson · Post by **CharlesRobinson** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:33 am

Just checking on some stats - Had a weird game play - Elite Armoured Roman vs Average Protected Hoplite - face to face strait on attack. Both of us had frineds on left and right flanks. I should have had the advantage - but the said I was 2 below the Hoplites. The unit showed Elite Armoured Impact Foot/Swordsmen+ and the Hoplites as Average Protected Spearmen, but they got POA for "pike/spear" and there was no listed for any of my Romans for the Swordsmen+ for POA. My Romans were slaughtered and not a single hoplite went down. Is this stuff programmed right?

Thanks

pantherboy · Post by **pantherboy** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:10 am

CharlesRobinson wrote:Just checking on some stats - Had a weird game play - Elite Armoured Roman vs Average Protected Hoplite - face to face strait on attack. Both of us had frineds on left and right flanks. I should have had the advantage - but the said I was 2 below the Hoplites. The unit showed Elite Armoured Impact Foot/Swordsmen+ and the Hoplites as Average Protected Spearmen, but they got POA for "pike/spear" and there was no listed for any of my Romans for the Swordsmen+ for POA. My Romans were slaughtered and not a single hoplite went down. Is this stuff programmed right?

Thanks

I read the help file in game and it states that in melee swordsmen doesn't count versus spear/pike that is steady.

CharlesRobinson · Post by **CharlesRobinson** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:32 am

So Hoplites are spear/pike - outch! That really messes up the Romans then - never had Elite Romans Collapse like that unless they were hit on the flanks and rear arc.

It that also in the TT Rules - do you know? I do not have the hardback rules with me - they are boxed up on there way to my new duty station in Hawaii.

Thanks

Scottbot · Post by **Scottbot** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:25 am

Yep, swordsman get no POA against steady spear/pike in the TT game, regardless if they are sword or sword+.

If you don't degrade spear on the charge, it's probably going to be tough going

arsan · Post by **arsan** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:20 am

Yes, on the first contact (impact charge) the romans have a big advantage. But if the spears don't break, once in melee the legionaries will be in trouble

keithmartinsmith · Post by **keithmartinsmith** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:27 am

Historically Romans generally fought protected spearmen. Armoured largely being from the Classical period. So with Roman armour they are usually on level factors with hoplites/spears by the melee phase of a combat. As they also usuallyy have an advantage at impact they only need to disrupt the spearmen and the spears are usually doomed.

Keith

petergarnett · Post by **petergarnett** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:34 am

I thought there was a POA was better armour - did you not get that Charles?

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:19 am

It doesn't sound right to me - can you send a screenshot with the mouse over the target to show the details of what it thinks is happening?

Unless you were Fragmented or badly disordered maybe I can see why you'd be down?

CharlesRobinson · Post by **CharlesRobinson** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:39 pm

That game was several back now so no, I do not have a screen shot. I udnerstand the rules now on that and yes I did get armour - but it does lead to another question - I think one of the reasons that I was so shocked by the results was that I had gotten used to man handling Carthaginian spearman in the historical games which have the same stats. Why is it that the Carthaginians seem to fold easier with the same stats? (Average/Protected/Offensive Spearmen)

Thanks!

Morbio · Post by **Morbio** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:06 am

Beats me. I have no statistical evidence to support it, but the Carthaginian units seem underpowered compared to Rome. I know they lost 3 wars against Rome, but nevertheless under Hannibal they did win some tremendous victories, which seem difficult to replicate with the standard units. Maybe now that DAG is available, the lake Trasimene and other battles can be remade that give Carthage the edge they seem to lack.

So, all you builders out there.... go on, you know you want to!

deeter · Post by **deeter** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:58 am

Troop types for Hannibal in Italy and Africa are quite good. Options for all drilled and Superior armored ofeensive spear are not to be scoffed at.

Deeter

pantherboy · Post by **pantherboy** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:01 pm

CharlesRobinson wrote:That game was several back now so no, I do not have a screen shot. I udnerstand the rules now on that and yes I did get armour - but it does lead to another question - I think one of the reasons that I was so shocked by the results was that I had gotten used to man handling Carthaginian spearman in the historical games which have the same stats. Why is it that the Carthaginians seem to fold easier with the same stats? (Average/Protected/Offensive Spearmen)

Thanks!

The difference is that a number of people are fielding Superior/armored/offensive spearmen which makes a hell of a difference. In the pre-built scenarios wherever the superior/armored ones were used then they did well as long as they survived the impact. Curretly romans still make chop liver of Avg/Prot spear from my experience.

Steve

CharlesRobinson · Post by **CharlesRobinson** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:17 pm

That was why I was surprised - I was fighting Average/Protected/Offensive Spearmen. No big deal - just surprised - next time I may mow over them.

keithmartinsmith · Post by **keithmartinsmith** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:38 pm

We have just posted version 1.1.1 of the game. I would be very keen to hear of any problem's with POA's. I do not know of any but then again there are so many combinations.

If reporting a POA issue please ensure that you are using the default combat display for the game (see help/index/keyboard short cuts for changing this).

Thanks
Keith

petergarnett · Post by **petergarnett** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:51 am

I may have this one wrong but in impact combat I charged a lancer cav which was already in combat with another unit - yet the ccav got the POA for charging in the open v foot. Surely that should not happen as they are standing still.

pantherboy · Post by **pantherboy** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:33 am

petergarnett wrote:I may have this one wrong but in impact combat I charged a lancer cav which was already in combat with another unit - yet the ccav got the POA for charging in the open v foot. Surely that should not happen as they are standing still.

If you are talking about spear/pike charging shock mounted than they lose their POA. That is why I won't charge with Pikes.

petergarnett · Post by **petergarnett** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:09 am

No I mean the lancers POA - the lancers are standing still - they should not get the +POA simply because they have been charged. You should be able to charge with your pike as both have lost the impact +POA - but I can't remember how the TT rules apply this.

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:16 pm

petergarnett wrote:No I mean the lancers POA - the lancers are standing still - they should not get the +POA simply because they have been charged. You should be able to charge with your pike as both have lost the impact +POA - but I can't remember how the TT rules apply this.

The lance POA counts in the open whether the lancers charged or not in the TT rules. The TT rules intentionally discourage foot from charging shock mounted. I think the PC behaves the same way.

Chris

petergarnett · Post by **petergarnett** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:38 pm

I think I've been playing the TT rules wrong then - where a BG was already in melee & a new BG charges it I wasn't giving the charged lancers this +POA.

Scottbot · Post by **Scottbot** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:48 am

in the TT game, any combat done during the Impact phase uses the impact POA's. Pretty sure the same holds true for the PC game.

POA's

POA's

Re: POA's

Spear/Pike

That game was several back now.

Re: That game was several back now.

Same