Interception charges

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:56 pm

mhohio wrote:and again i state that the front corner of the charging cavalry was within the 4" ZOI prior to any stepping forward.

But the zone does not extend forwards 4MU as something is in the way. It only extends as far as you can move in an intercept.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:09 pm

An interception charge must be directly forward (except as below) and can be upto the limit of the battle group's ZOI. It cannot include any shifts, changes of formation or interpenetrations. It must either:
* Cross the path of the charging battle group ...
* Contact the flank or rear of the enemy battle group

The above is the text of the rules. It clearly states that the intercept charge MUST cross the path of the charging battle group.

As the path of the charging battle group does not extend past the target as there is nothing to step forward into when the charge is declared this means that placing the intercepting BG somewhere that the chargers will step forwards into as a result of the intercept charge does not meet any of the requirements of an intercept charge so it is not allowed to make said intercept charge.

The ZOI may well extend through friendly troops but the intercept charge itself cannot move through anything and if the intercept does not cross the path fo the charge then it doesn't happen FULL STOP

mhohio · Post by **mhohio** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:32 pm

Ok, i guess where I was having an issue was with Cross the path... I mistook that for "does the path of the chargers enter the 4 inch ZOI?" which i took as yes it enters that spot. So it would trigger stepping forward and forcing the chargers to step forward since they MUST. Also to Philqw, i don't see in the book on pg.62 where my 4" ZOI stops being a 4" ZOI due to friends.... I see that "only through terrain that does not disorder or severly disorder it. A battle group cannot intercept an enemy battle group if , due to intervening terrain, no part of the enemy battle group is visible to it before either battle group moves. Where does it state that friends stop the whole ZOI?? Remember that my group had front view to his unit charging and full view, ie they were not fully behind the LH...

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:43 pm

mhohio wrote:Ok, i guess where I was having an issue was with Cross the path... I mistook that for "does the path of the chargers enter the 4 inch ZOI?" which i took as yes it enters that spot. So it would trigger stepping forward and forcing the chargers to step forward since they MUST. Also to Philqw, i don't see in the book on pg.62 where my 4" ZOI stops being a 4" ZOI due to friends.... I see that "only through terrain that does not disorder or severly disorder it. A battle group cannot intercept an enemy battle group if , due to intervening terrain, no part of the enemy battle group is visible to it before either battle group moves. Where does it state that friends stop the whole ZOI?? Remember that my group had front view to his unit charging and full view, ie they were not fully behind the LH...

I refer you to Hammy's answer above, which is correct.

The issue is not where the ZOI extends to but whether the interceptors can intercept. They can't, for the reasons that Hammy succinctly gives.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:44 pm

Friends don't get in the way of a ZOI but just because enemy charge through your ZOI it does not mean that you can intercept them without moving to "cross the path" of the charge.

In practice the ZOI effectively stops when it encounters any other BG but strictly it continues even though I suspect it will have no practical effect.

mhohio · Post by **mhohio** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:52 pm

I understand... cross the path was my issue.

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:57 pm

mmmmm skyline

Madcam.

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:56 pm

Your ZOI cannot extend beyond the point you contact your friendly BG. You can't move past it, so you can't claim it is in your ZOI. You therefore do not reach the enemy charge path, and there is no interception. To qualify as an intercept you must be able to reach a position to come in contact with the enemy before they hit their target.

awesum4 · Post by **awesum4** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:31 am

Not wishing to stuff this thread, but isn't the original charge illegal? The cavalry are trying to charge the second rank of a BG already in combat which they are not allowed to do, unless its a valid flank charge. Therefore there is no charge, and no intercept. In the manouevre phase they can move into overlap to fight, and the cav facing down the page could charge them fontally next turn.

mhohio · Post by **mhohio** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:06 am

to answer your question the unit that made the charge was to the LH's flank, the picture does not represent this due to our recreation. The charge was a legal flank charge...

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:36 am

mhohio wrote:and again i state that the front corner of the charging cavalry was within the 4" ZOI prior to any stepping forward. The picture is not exact, we recreated this.. The right corner of the charging cavalry closest to the LH is within the 4" ZOI before contact to the LH, or it does go within the 4".... Does that cause my unit to step forward for the intercept upto the back of my LH since i cannot go further?? If it does then does his cavalry then step into my cav for the intercept??

Well interceptors never step forward. SO if that is your arguement you fail.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:39 am

hammy wrote: As the path of the charging battle group does not extend past the target as there is nothing to step forward into when the charge is declared this means that placing the intercepting BG somewhere that the chargers will step forwards into as a result of the intercept charge does not meet any of the requirements of an intercept charge so it is not allowed to make said intercept charge.

As I said I could see it either way. The issue is you are saying knowing whether a step forward is involved is also part of determining a legal ZOI.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:50 am

SO the following is also not a legal intercept.

KKKK

AA.BB
.
.CC

K is charging down versus A and B. There is a full base gap between A and B.
C wishes to intercept.
Its intercept would stop at rear of A and the hope was K which then must step forward in C.
Assume its all within 4 ZOI

So RBS agrees with Hammy that C cannot intercept as C would not cross K's path. Cross being defined as getting into position before any step forwards occur.

I can live with that.

Interesting also if you look in the book page 62 diagram. If you nudge the cavalry left 1 mm its ZOI would stop at the rear of the archers. There fore no intercept even though the ZOI extends further.

See Madcam you would have done better had you used a simple diagram and not your lousy photos. Make sure you get extra pickles on your skybox chilli.

mhohio · Post by **mhohio** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:01 am

hazelbark wrote:
mhohio wrote:and again i state that the front corner of the charging cavalry was within the 4" ZOI prior to any stepping forward. The picture is not exact, we recreated this.. The right corner of the charging cavalry closest to the LH is within the 4" ZOI before contact to the LH, or it does go within the 4".... Does that cause my unit to step forward for the intercept upto the back of my LH since i cannot go further?? If it does then does his cavalry then step into my cav for the intercept??
Well interceptors never step forward. SO if that is your arguement you fail.

I did not mean step forward, i meant i went forward to the rear of my LH...which was approx 2 inches or so...

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:57 am

Even in this case the charge cannot be intercepted as the charge does not cross the path of the interceptor. Whacky as it seems

peterrjohnston · Post by **peterrjohnston** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:46 am

Phil, wouldn't those single-base BGs have been removed in the previous JAP?

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:48 am

peterrjohnston wrote:Phil, wouldn't those single-base BGs have been removed in the previous JAP?

No they are all elite, and the other bases lost in the shooting phase

mhohio · Post by **mhohio** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:05 pm

philqw78 wrote:Even in this case the charge cannot be intercepted as the charge does not cross the path of the interceptor. Whacky as it seems

FYI, this is not the example that started this page... For arguement sake.. let's say that unit C is 1mm behind A and is within the 4" intercept range.... IE.. move C up... the charge now has been declared which will in my previous statement put the chargers unit within the rectangle of 4 inches BEFORE impact... I thought the interceptor would step up to directly behind A. causing A to be impacted... the charger then steping ahead 2 inches to contact the interceptor....
As I have stated before it was the "cross the path" that i had a problem with.. i didn't know that the interceptor had to put himself into a position to be impacted by the charger and contact before the charger hits his initial target....

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:12 pm

mhohio wrote:FYI, this is not the example that started this page... For arguement sake.. let's say that unit C is 1mm behind A and is within the 4" intercept range.... IE.. move C up... the charge now has been declared which will in my previous statement put the chargers unit within the rectangle of 4 inches BEFORE impact... I thought the interceptor would step up to directly behind A. causing A to be impacted... the charger then steping ahead 2 inches to contact the interceptor....

I know its not the same, its an extreme example. But illustrates that the interceptor must be able to cross the path of the charge, before any intercepts are moved. In my example if RED wanted to wheel, clockwise on its front right, to contact B then C could intercept.

mhohio · Post by **mhohio** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:29 pm

Phil, could you put your artistic skills to work and create a diagram which would keep A exactly where it is. Unit C approx 2-3 inches behind with 1/2 directly behind A the other 1/2 open.... in my example A is the target of the charge. Unit C is not because he is not within the 4" charge range and outside of the 2" step forward range... Now extending from unit C directly forward 4 inches the charger enters the ZOI... Could you put that out there for me??