Interception charges

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:17 pm

Must a charging BG and an intercepting BG physcially cross paths (ie touch) within the 4" ZoI for the intercepting BG to be allowed to intercept (ie move up to 4" or as much as possible)?

Meaning due to a intervening BG locked in combat, the intercepting BG can not fully move 4 inches and due to the angle of the incoming charge never physically touches the charging BG or its path.

The only way the charging BG hits or crosses the intercepting BG ZoI is if it steps forward after hitting the targeted BG.

Due to the angles involved only part of the incepters ZoI reaches the charging BGs path. But not before, when moving, it hits the rear of the BG already lock. This then stops it from cross the chargers path.

So, in essence, although part of the ZoI triggers the possibility for an interception, due to placement of another BG, the interceptors never physically cross the physical move distance of the chargers nor touch the charges, UNLESS they step forward.

Thanks.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:25 pm

Yes the rules for intercept state that the enemy unit must move through your ZOI of a battle group that is not the target of any charges this turn, so they must physically pass through the ZOI of your unit.

Since the enemy group does not appear to cross your ZOI till after they have contacted your other unit I do not think you can intercept it. Pretty certain the rules state they have to cross you ZOI during their normal charge, not as a stepping forward move.

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:37 pm

Now, if the intercepting unit is behind a friendly with only partial frontal ZOI to the charge, the interceptor moved up to approx 3 inches. The charger then contacted his target... which is still in front of the ZOI of the interceptor... Does then the charger have the obligation to step forward into the intercept?

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:55 pm

madcam2us wrote:Now, if the intercepting unit is behind a friendly with only partial frontal ZOI to the charge, the interceptor moved up to approx 3 inches. The charger then contacted his target... which is still in front of the ZOI of the interceptor... Does then the charger have the obligation to step forward into the intercept?

If the path of the charge before any interception crosses the zoi then the interception can happen. If the path of the charge would only cross the zoi as a result of the interception then no interception is possible.

The long and short is that a zoi has a maximum size but it can be cut down by the presence of other BGs. A zoi does not extend past any obstacle. If the charge does not cross the resulting cut down zoi then no interception can be made.

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:18 pm

Perhaps a picture would help...

Situation at start...

The BG facing down the page (in black) is trying to come to the rescue of the light horse that are locked in combat and are about to charge in the flank but the Bg of Cav facing up the page...

Its 4 inch ZoI only goes <4" stoping when it reaches its friends as it has to go straight with no turns/contracts/etc...

The charging BG now moves and reaches its target....

Since the intercepting BG can't move all the way and "cross" the chargers path... Is a interception possible? (I say no, my worthy opponent says yes...)

Hope this helps...

Madcam.

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:39 pm

Assume the chargers were behind the front of the locked LH fight, enabling it to qualify for a flank... sorry, picture didn't reflect the situation.

Madcam.

peterrjohnston · Post by **peterrjohnston** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:02 am

hammy wrote: The long and short is that a zoi has a maximum size but it can be cut down by the presence of other BGs. A zoi does not extend past any obstacle. If the charge does not cross the resulting cut down zoi then no interception can be made.

You can't interpenetrate, but nothing in the intercept charges section says the ZOI is reduced as a consequence.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:32 am

madcam2us wrote:Now, if the intercepting unit is behind a friendly with only partial frontal ZOI to the charge, the interceptor moved up to approx 3 inches. The charger then contacted his target... which is still in front of the ZOI of the interceptor... Does then the charger have the obligation to step forward into the intercept?

Well the last part. Step forwards are always required. For instance had your intercepting unit began there, it clearly would have been stepped forward into.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:43 am

I think Peter's point is right.

Further I can see the argument either way. At the moment I am of the mind they can intercept, because they will then be contacted by the charger.

Note the FAQ makes clear the interception is not to contact, but to be in the path of the charger. This example is clearly in "the spirit" of the interception and I could see it being allowed.

So i think it could be allowed. ASSUMING that the orginal path of the charge un stepped forward is in the ZoI.

My first instincts were the other way, but reading I could see it being allowed.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:51 am

from your pictures, I would say the black unit (which I think you said was the one that wanted to intercept) could make an intercept charge since the enemy cav will move through its ZOI (lucky guess there since there is no actual measuring device in the pics) The interceptors would then have moved first 4MU, and then the cav would have moved up probably having to charge the interceptors which have moved into the charge path. Of course like I said it depends on the actual measurments which are hard to judge by a picture.

mhohio · Post by **mhohio** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:57 am

since the pictures do not show this... my cavalry was within the 4 inch ZOI when he crossed it with his cavalry... i moved my cavalry up to the back of my LH.... his cavalry contacted my LH in the flank... then his cavalry stepped forward to contact my cavalry... this is how I interpreted the rules.... there is Skyline chili riding on this one....

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:56 am

Intercept zone does not include stepping forward into the interceptor. Bloody ridiculous.

SirGarnet · Post by **SirGarnet** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:09 am

What philqw said.

The ZOI is a rectangle. You can only wheel inside it if needed to avoid the chargers hitting your flank after they enter the ZOI.

Also, looking at the later photos, it looks like the charge just bypasses the wannabe interceptors' ZOI entirely, or, if it just tags it as shown, the chargers could avoid the ZOI with a slight wheel (if they have room)..

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:17 am

P63

Fifth bullet

An interception charge must be directly forward (except as below) and can be upto the limit of the battle group's ZOI. It cannot include any shifts, changes of formation or interpenetrations. It must either:
* Cross the path of the charging battle group ...
* Contact the flank or rear of the enemy battle group

In this case the interceptors clearly don't contact the flank or rear so I am assuming that the argument is that by placing the intercepting BG in a possition where if the intercepting BG were not there the charge would not actually move to is crossing the path.

IMO the path of a charge is the area swept out by the front edge of the charging BG. The path of the charge in this case does not go past the initial line of contact so the interception charge proposed is not valid as it does not cross the path of the charge. A charge path may include stepping forwards but only if that stepping forwards would happen prior to the interception.

Declare charges (which creates the charge path)
Intercept (in response to the charge path)

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:57 pm

Whenever you're feeling good and hungry, its skyline time......

One day every TO will read the rules and not (mis)remember intent....

Madcam.

mhohio · Post by **mhohio** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:46 pm

So within that 4" rectangle, if the charging battlegroup enters that... the interceptors do not react due to a partial blockage of friendly troops?? the interceptors do not go forward as much as possible allowing the chargers to then reach them within the 2" outreach?? Maybe I missed something, but i never saw that due to friends partially intervening this would prevent a intercept which was straight ahead and the chargers coming within the 4" rectangle....

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:05 pm

Intercept must cross the path of charge. This does not. It increases the distance charged.

ShrubMiK · Post by **ShrubMiK** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:27 pm

Simple solution - don't have your potential interceptors pointing right up the bum of the BG they are supposedly protecting the flank of

spikemesq · Post by **spikemesq** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:34 pm

I don't quite follow the cast of characters in that photo.

If the interceptors are the Cv on the left facing up, it looks like a straight advance of 4 MU (less any reduction for friendly troops in the way) would clip the charge path before any step forwards.

I agree, in any event, that interceptions must cross the principal charge path and not just the "step forward" path.

Spike

mhohio · Post by **mhohio** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:38 pm

and again i state that the front corner of the charging cavalry was within the 4" ZOI prior to any stepping forward. The picture is not exact, we recreated this.. The right corner of the charging cavalry closest to the LH is within the 4" ZOI before contact to the LH, or it does go within the 4".... Does that cause my unit to step forward for the intercept upto the back of my LH since i cannot go further?? If it does then does his cavalry then step into my cav for the intercept??