Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

[PeteMitchell]

I tend to agree. Would you propose to do this in 41 already?

This will require Rudel and other tactical bombers?

[McGuba]

Well I drew it up, two possible landings on the same map, Wales or Newcastle. But remember, this was based on the assumption that there was no AI scripted trigger if Axis units lands outside Allies spotting.

McGuba responded with: "Yes, there is such a trigger, i.e. as far as I remember if more than one Axis ground unit reaches British soil then they start to react, even if none of those invading units are within the spotting range of the British units."
If this is accurate then the Wales landing are off the table, but the Newcastle plan is still valid.

Ah, so many questions!

OK, so whatever...

So since we are strictly talking about an early war Sealion attempt and BE v2.4, bear in mind this is only about that. This may also contain some spoilers, but since you have done detailed attack plans, down to each and every unit and so on, I think it is fair for you to know that there are a few additional units that will spawn right AFTER a certain condition is met. Meaning that not all the British units are visible at any given time even if fog of war is lifted.

So basically this is what we are dealing with:

Sealion.jpg (482.18 KiB) Viewed 140 times

The blue "24" zone markers show the are which is being monitored by the game. If more than 2 Axis ground units are within this area then the British reaction is triggered. Which means the Home Fleet is scrambled to move down south from Scapa (where it stays inactive otherwise for the duration of the war) trying to interdict any Axis invasion fleet in both the east and west coast of Britain.

It also means that a few more British units are spawned in that case , above the ones that can be seen on your screenshots.

It also worth mentioning that not only Axis ground units actually on the ground are counted within this area, but also ground units in the air so yes, it also means paratroopers in the air over this area. And of course ground units in sea transports near the coast, but still within this zone.

So, again, in BE 2.4 the following British units will also spawn (appear out of nowhere) in or near Wales at the beginning of the Allied turn, if the above condition is met which may affect your current planning:

- a Cruiser Mark V "Covenantier" tank unit randomly at or around hex 44,36 within a 1 hex radius
- a Matilda II tank unit randomly at or around hex 46,35 within 1 hex radius

- a Daimler Mark II recon unit randomly at or around hex 46,34 within a 1 hex radius, but only if more than 3 (and not just 2) Axis ground units are in zone 24
- Valentine III tank at hex 48,35, but only if more than 3 Axis ground units are in zone 24

These units are set to attack, so immediately after spawning they will start to move toward any visible enemy unit within range, or towards the nearest enemy objective city.

In BE 2.5 this will be changed a bit, so that these units will spawn with 0 fuel, meaning they cannot immediately start to move in the same turn right after spawning.

Also, if there is a later time Sealion attempt, other, later unit types would spawn instead of these at somewhat different locations. I mean these units would only spawn by turns 30-40 and if Sealion is attempted after that, other, later units types are spawning instead.

Now your questions:

Any thing I should add or remove?

It is hard to say. It mainly depends on your tactical skills. Generally, you need a few good units of each unit type and of course air + naval support. The more units you can allocate, the easier it is. But then those units will be missing from the east, so...

Then it also depends on the dice rolls of the battles, you may have an easy ride, or the opposite. The first few battles may be crucial.

Should I expect the brits to stay more in there designated areas as USSR, or do they counterattack an mass?
My guess would be somewhere in between where mainly armor lead the charge while Inf protect cities.

Yes, correct, some of their units are set to stay where they are, others, like the above mentioned, are set to counter attack the invaders. Now I do no not remember, but there may also be such a trigger that all remaining units start to counter attack at some point, if they are about to lose, but do not take this for granted.

Also are there any specially important VP's to stop spawns, or is it the amount that matter most.
Intend to clear the way down South, Liverpool, Birmingham then London.

As far as I am aware, additional ground unit spawns in Britain are cancelled if at least 1 victory objective city in Britain is being held by the Axis.

However, later British partisan units will start to spawn if all of Britain is captured.

I have heard 1VP is enough to stop D-day.

Correct.

How about the Dieppe raid or even Torch, are they affected by GB VP's?

Dieppe raid only happens if the Axis do not own any victory objective cities in Britain.

If I remember well, some of the British units may not spawn for Torch if Britain is captured by then, or something like that. But it is only marginal since mainly US units are involved in that. And historically we know that some of the US units sailed straight from America for Torch and not from Britain. So I guess they might as well have done it even without having Britain at that point.

Do I believe it is more beneficial to attack UK first rather than taking Moscow, Rostov and beelining for Baku. Not really, but I am curious about pros and cons.

There are pros and cons, but this is quite complicated and up to debate.



Other than all these, I think I would also propose a more conventional southern, Dover style approach as suggested by Uhu. I think that one has more benefits, like having air support from early on etc. etc.

[PeteMitchell]

Personally, I think a late Sealion is more difficult.

Plus, I have the impression getting oil as fast as possible became also more important in version 2.4.

[Uhu]

I started it always in the winter of 41-42. It is good to rid of the swarms of Allied bombers and fighters as soon as possible.
No, Rudel is needed to destroy the Malta fortress.
Tactical bombers are partly needed elsewhere - and they would be anyway slaughtered despite fighter protection. Although the Ju88's are needed to weaken the British capital ships and/or the destroyers. After that the survivors should be moved to weakener aerial theaters.
The best defense is to bring several AA units (at least 3) to England as they cannot be slaughtered by the British fighters. Only the JG 52 boys with the lot of heroes have some chance but if the AI decides so, they can also be destroyed.

I tend to agree. Would you propose to do this in 41 already?

This will require Rudel and other tactical bombers?

[Uhu]

Both true.

Personally, I think a late Sealion is more difficult.

Plus, I have the impression getting oil as fast as possible became also more important in version 2.4.

[Uhu]

No there is no "Everybody attack!" wave from the Brits. They defend the key cities.

Yes, correct, some of their units are set to stay where they are, others, like the above mentioned, are set to counter attack the invaders. Now I do no not remember, but there may also be such a trigger that all remaining units start to counter attack at some point, if they are about to lose, but do not take this for granted.

[Uhu]

Theoretically all three operations are possible at the same time. (Plus taking Tobruk and advancing to Egypt.) In 1941 you have the force for that.
OK, the Caucasus takes more times.
I'm doing this right now with the Kursk save: advancing to the Caucasus, Sealion'44, Holding out at Kursk and before Moscow, and trying desperately to fend off the Sicily invasion.
(Reopen simultaneously the North African front is possible too but it drew so much resources away what was needed for the above mentioned actions that I postponed it for later - meaning: I started the save from turn 51 again. )

But I play with dice chess and with tons of reloads so that is more a theoretical gameplay.

Do I believe it is more beneficial to attack UK first rather than taking Moscow, Rostov and beelining for Baku. Not really, but I am curious about pros and cons.

There are pros and cons, but this is quite complicated and up to debate.

[Uhu]

I was sure that somehow the Brits anticipated my Invasion:
Their fleet from Scapa Flow was already at the Leeds-Sheffield line when my troops just set their feet on English soil!
Now I understand why and how. Interestingly there are those two "holes" 52:42 and 53:41 which are no 24-zones. Well, well, well...I will use that information.

The blue "24" zone markers show the are which is being monitored by the game. If more than 2 Axis ground units are within this area then the British reaction is triggered. Which means the Home Fleet is scrambled to move down south from Scapa (where it stays inactive otherwise for the duration of the war) trying to interdict any Axis invasion fleet in both the east and west coast of Britain.

It also means that a few more British units are spawned in that case , above the ones that can be seen on your screenshots.

It also worth mentioning that not only Axis ground units actually on the ground are counted within this area, but also ground units in the air so yes, it also means paratroopers in the air over this area. And of course ground units in sea transports near the coast, but still within this zone.

[PeteMitchell]

This requires a lot of practice

[PeteMitchell]

Both true.

Personally, I think a late Sealion is more difficult.

Plus, I have the impression getting oil as fast as possible became also more important in version 2.4.

Do you fight the US convoys with subs when playing from 41?