Locarnus Addon 2025-08, for Battlefield Europe, Afrika Korps and Grand Campaign East

[eskuche]

Unfortunately it looks like these values are hard-coded. Otherwise, a "fix" for lopsided experience gain would be to increase the minimum DefBonus and decrease the maximum AttBonus (perhaps by changing the 6 to an 8 for the former and to a 3-4 for the latter).

Looking at gamerules, another "make interesting choices" point may be messing with initiative boni, either by giving 25% bonus per initiative point overage and/or changing the surround bonus to 1.4-1.5 initiative. This would 1. reward player positioning for decreasing points of attack while defending and 2. reward player planning and positioning by rewarding effective surrounds. 1.4 initiative/additional attacker would make 3 additional attackers give 4 initiative; 1.5 giving 2 additional attackers 3 initiative. As it stands, the game for the player is extremely focused on damage by combined arms and not as much by position. This change would also make recon units much more valuable, allowing them to give bonuses to multiple attacks per turn (however still requiring strategic repositioning to not be vulnerable at turn's end). In PC2 recons give flat + /star bonus on ROF which is a bit too strong, but maybe these initiative changes could be something to think about

[goose_2]

Quick Update!
Finished Belgorod this morning before I went to work. No spoilers, but the results will speak for themselves when I send you the saved game.

I wanted to send this morning, but my computer was being a jerk, so it will have to wait until tonight.

Now I see what you are saying about Marder 2 and 3, they have those nice arty upgrades, it is too bad that means blast really has a useless hero for now. Initiative does essentially nothing for arty, but maybe this is a temporary unit change.

The greater concern is the prestige situation. I need to just let go of the idea of ever seeing 10000 in prestige again. I need to buckle up as I believe I will need to dig deep for the various Kursk battles which all need to be DV's in order to get to the bonus scenario, well at least the first 2.

So based on that believe I need to settle into seeing somewhere around 5k in prestige being the new hard stop and hope for garnering more in prestige in 44 when I have all those units piling up for surrender prestige.

I believe that leaving Kei as the 6 range arty makes sense for now as the extra range really came in handy to have an effect on their back field AA. Plus with his extra 1 shot with increased rof .6 instead of ,5...this means I can increase his anemic experience gathering capabilities. My hope is I can get him to 4 stars sometime in Kursk battles to os him to 14 str and increase his shot capacity by 1 more. It is really really expensive to do this but I believe it is worth the effort.

Anyway that is what I have for right now for thoughts.

[goose_2]

Edit for more balance things:
Unclear what the Bf-109 G series is doing. F-4 is better than all of them overall?
Recon is still very difficult to use efficiently, even moreso with the movement calculations. I've stuck with one 223+ (4 spot) with spotting for almost the entire game.
Still waiting for my bonus unit transports...

Incoming '42 end core..

The G-4 is already superior to the F-4, when fighting the La-5 on equal terms.
But very good crews (experience, heroes, typical for the grand campaign) will still be able to get better results from the F-4 than the G-4.


Interesting that recons are seen so differently.
Goose_2 can't get enough of them, even if they are rather squishy now.

Sorry about those bonus SE transports.
If I remember correctly, I removed them when I introduced more inf nations and unit classes for the bonus SE lineup (like towed AT, tank destroyers and now even recon and SPAA).

It always stuns me. I seem to be the only player that really utilizes recons to their fullest extent. They are so, so versatile. Yeah they cannot take a punch but put in the right hands they offer a critical role for the 3 S's. Surround, suppress, surrender. They are the key to the first s.

I am loving the use of them in the mod, and encourage any player to experiment with them especially now that there are so many for se use, and they gather exp pretty quickly. IMHO

Thanks for giving me so many to play with Locarnus, really looking forward to my new 5cm upgrade option coming for me. By the by did you know that my favorite World War 2 tank has been the Panzer 2. I know it is not the favorite of most anyone I know of, in fact I might be the only one that considers that tank as their favorite, but I love early war tanks and love the attempt by the German army to utilize them throughout the war despite their obvious obsolescence.

Like making an old dog do new tricks.

[eskuche]

It always stuns me. I seem to be the only player that really utilizes recons to their fullest extent. They are so, so versatile. Yeah they cannot take a punch but put in the right hands they offer a critical role for the 3 S's. Surround, suppress, surrender. They are the key to the first s.

I am loving the use of them in the mod, and encourage any player to experiment with them especially now that there are so many for se use, and they gather exp pretty quickly. IMHO

Thanks for giving me so many to play with Locarnus, really looking forward to my new 5cm upgrade option coming for me. By the by did you know that my favorite World War 2 tank has been the Panzer 2. I know it is not the favorite of most anyone I know of, in fact I might be the only one that considers that tank as their favorite, but I love early war tanks and love the attempt by the German army to utilize them throughout the war despite their obvious obsolescence.

Like making an old dog do new tricks.

Don’t get me wrong I used to run 3 recon when they had 8 tracked move, but having 7 tracked with some terrain costing 1.1-1.4 move points makes them very difficult to use effectively. You can usually push around enemy units to set up a perfect surrender but it’s very difficult with the current recon/terrain lineup.

[thejf]

Ah maybe the more kills for inf are found here, my artillery, for the most part, have much greater kills than yours appear to have. I think that will benefit me later as arty will get fewer and fewer kills as their units get stronger, while the infantry tears them up in close terrain, so hoping my infantry catches up then. But we will see.

I too am struggling greatly getting kills for my air force. My Bombers are higher than my Fighters, but the grind for fighters is crazy hard. I do not think I have a single fighter with 500 kills, and that is not good for either of us.

This is correct. I've barely switched up any of my towed arty's and have only done limited farming with them, so they are indeed lagging behind the rest of my core. You've definitely done a better job in this regard!
Fortunately at this stage there are a lot of options to move units between towed/SP arty's and other classes, so I'm planning to use those options to hopefully level things out somewhere in '44.

Indeed the air force situation is going to be rough. I'm just going to try to keep a bunch of 4-star overstrenght fighters going and go toe-to-toe with the VVS. This should speed up the kill count and hopefully gain me at least a few second hero's.

[Locarnus]

[...]
Edit 2: going REALLY hard on the math. Here is an estimated experience per indirect attack assuming ROF of 10 . Δ means AttackerAttack - DefenderDefense. Miss/Suppress/Kills from the damage formula. The best returns of experience is between 0 and 9 (aka target has 9 more defense than your attack). The best damage per xp gained is at exact parity between attack and defense, so something like a 7.5 cm fK ROF11 (soft attack 7 + exp.) against non-conscript soviet infantry with GD 7 + 2/entrenchment level. The pure experience farming against a reliable target (that doesn't die), then, would be something like 3 artillery hitting one of these infantry in an entrenching position. [...]

Thank you very much for the detailed experience breakdown!

I think the Katyusha farming thing is a focus for the normal game without Addon, where there are far fewer (and only unidirectional) bridges between some classes.
Thus arty class can't be used for training infantry there. So the "enemy attack danger" part of the equation is active when training infantry, which gets a massive boost from the high attack stat of the Katyusha. But contrary to attacking direct fire units, the Katyusha counterfire attack value is mostly converted to suppression instead of kills.

After doing some limited testing, I have to say that I can observe some advantages from attacking Katyushas (and some serious risks).
But I also have trouble when comparing expected results from the formula to the observed results.
If the formula is still correct, then it seems that I'm not applying it correctly...

Looking at gamerules, another "make interesting choices" point may be messing with initiative boni, either by giving 25% bonus per initiative point overage and/or changing the surround bonus to 1.4-1.5 initiative.

Yep, unfortunately so much hardcoded stuff. Some time ago I thought about the initiative bonus as well, since it is one of the few things that can be adjusted. Though it would mess with multiple systems (including therrain ini cap), so I'm hesitant to touch it after burning my fingers on similar balancing adventures.

Finished Belgorod this morning before I went to work. No spoilers, but the results will speak for themselves when I send you the saved game.
[...]
So based on that believe I need to settle into seeing somewhere around 5k in prestige being the new hard stop and hope for garnering more in prestige in 44 when I have all those units piling up for surrender prestige.

Looking forward to your unit core after Belgorod!

Yeah, the two Kursk scenarios requiring a DV will need some spending.
At least you get prestige after finishing Orel 43e3, even with 0.25 prestige multiplier (1500 for marginal, 1750 for DV after multiplier). But that is probably going towards core changes, especially for expensive and heavy units.
Not many new unit types after 43e4 though, until late 43 when the new Panther type becomes availalbe.

[Locarnus]

Thanks for giving me so many to play with Locarnus, really looking forward to my new 5cm upgrade option coming for me. By the by did you know that my favorite World War 2 tank has been the Panzer 2. I know it is not the favorite of most anyone I know of, in fact I might be the only one that considers that tank as their favorite, but I love early war tanks and love the attempt by the German army to utilize them throughout the war despite their obvious obsolescence.

Like making an old dog do new tricks.

The Panzer II is a great little machine!
I was very surprised when I learned that they did not even supply it with HE ammo at the start of WW2.
Imho those oddities have a special charm.
This video has quite a few of those lesser known vehicles/projects in them (Panzer II H with 5cm gun, He 112, late Hs 129 with tank cannon):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzLRheO_W6A
The Panzer II H 5cm idea was pretty close to the Panzer II L 5cm concept, just using an older chassis.



quick edit: You probably want to wait for the next update, if you have the time!

This is my first draft of the core and upgrade options.
Many have question marks, because there is so much potential for change.
I probably missed something, but wanted to get this out so the discussion can start.

I have no idea what unit to best make into the Panther!
I'm also not sure about the second Tiger P hull you wanted.
For both the question is, if one of those overstrength 430-440 experience arties should be converted, but then those will be missing for Kursk. And I'm not sure it is enough to reach 5 stars at some point anyway when they are Tiger P and Panther.
Or if it is better to eg train as much as possible in 43e3 and then convert ElBaron to Tiger P+ in 43e4?
Pierre could also be an option for Tiger P+ with the two heroes, but that would cost os again.
Is movement necessary on second Tiger P chassis?

Which brings me to two other units not in the list at the moment, the
8.8cm towed Pak and the Nashorn.
Both could be of tremendous help for the Kursk battles, but not sure what units should convert to those?
Imho Gigiduru with his great heroes needs some training as an arty and this AT branch can not cross over to the 8.8 due to Battlefield Europe considerations.



GC 1943e3 start core unit roster recommendations
7325 prestige, after elite replacements to full strength for all understrength units and selling excess captured units.

red marker for a) no heroes, b) <500 kills, c) <300 experience
blue marker for a) r1 or 2nd heroes, b) >=1000 kills, c) >= 400 experience

UnitType ....... transport ... Hero ... SubscriberName ... KillCounter ... Experience with elite replacements


45 Ground units

6+2+1 non-hero bonus SE units
Std Kav 42 ...................... a3s1 ... Brodrick ............. 1054 ... 313
Standard Inf 42 ................... d1 ... PatrickLee ........... 747 ... 315
Marder I ............................ i1 ... Dimitri ................ 565 ... 315 ... ==> Marder III in 43e4
7.62 Pak 36(r) /RSO ............. m1 ... PaulWilde ............ 391 ... 268 ... ==> 42M Toldi IIa in 43e4 ?
Semovente 47/32 ............. m1a3 ... Makorin .............. 901 ... 368 ... ==> 7.62 Pak40 /RSO in 43e4 ?
42M Toldi II ......................... ?? ... Eskuche ................ 51 .... 72 ... ==> 7.5cm FK 16 nA /Horse (arty) ?
plus 2 non-hero bonus SE units for the current 43 and the later 44 &45 grand campaign years

6 Infantry
Pioniere 42 .......... L3000 ..... m1 ... Soljaism .............. 661 ... 278
Grenadiere 42 ...... Sd250/1 ... d2 ... RichardMartin ....... 665 ... 300
Jäger 42 ............................ d2 ... Artemis .............. 509 ... 275
Fallschirmjäger 42 .............. i1a2 ... Pullig ................. 758 ... 297
Kradschützen 42 ................... a1 ... PeteMitchell ........ 584 ... 304
Bersaglieri 42 ...................... a2 ... Kostia ................ 473 ... 250 ... ==> Sahariana ?

1 Towed AT (plus any bonus SE towed AT guns)
7.5 Pak 40 /Sd 11 ............. m1a2 ... Gigiduru .............. 604 ... 314 ... ==> 5 Pak38 in Sd 10 ==> self prop arty ?

2 Recon
Panzer II L+ ........................ d2 ... Goose .................. 727 ... 327 ... ==> Pz II Luchs 5cm in 43e4
SdKfz 233 r9 ..................... s1s1 ... DanielS ................ 629 ... 334 ... ==> SdKfz 233+ r9 in 43e4

10 Tanks
Tiger I H r9s8 ....................... d2 ... Temis .................. 523 ... 409 ... ==> Tiger I H in 43e4
Tiger P r9s8 ........................ m1 ... Gooseboy ............. 561 ... 326 ... ==> Tiger P+ s8 ==> Ferdinand s8 in 43e4
Marder II /131 ...................... i1 ... Blast ................... 611 ... 313 ... ==> Wespe ?
Marder III H ........................ m1 ... PanzerVorwärts ...... 663 ... 316 ... ==> Grille r8
Panzer III M ......................... a2 ... NightPhoenix ......... 703 ... 341 ... ==> StuH 42 ==> StuH 42+ in 43e4 ?
StuG III G ........................... m1 ... DoktorG ............... 803 ... 346 ... ==> StuG III G+ in 43e4
Panzer IV G+ ........................ s1 ... Rimski ................. 779 ... 277 ... ==> Panzer IV H in 43e4 ?
Panzer IV G ......................... s1 ... Soren ................... 587 ... 235 ... ==> Brummbär r8 in 43e4
T-34/43(r) r9 ....................... a3 ... 7Bowls ................. 652 ... 259
KV-1C(r) ............................. d2 ... Paramecium .......... 688 ... 275

7 Mobile Arty
StuIG 33B r8 ..................... a2a2 ... Locarnus .............. 564 ... 344 ... ==> Flammpanzer III ?
Bison II (SturmPz II) r7 ............ d1 ... Festival ............... 600 ... 378 ... ==> Lorraine GW ?
StuG III E+ r11 ...................... r1 ... RayCaster ............. 542 ... 429 ... ==> StuIG 33B r8 ?
10.5 leFH auf B2(f) ............ m1a2 ... Pierre .................. 605 ... 391
Semovente 75/18 .................. d2 ... RightSide ............. 478 ... 354 ... ==> Semovente 75/34
Wurfrahmen 40 r8 .................. r1 ... Dneos ................. 705 ... 430 ... ==> Wurfrahmen 43 in 43e4
SU-122(r) r8 .......................... ?? ... Kapl ................... 126 ... 235

7 Towed Arty
10.5cm Polish arty ... Blitz ...... a3 ... MichalGolaszewski ... 790 ... 438
10.5cm leFH 18M .... Horse ..... m1 ... Raunosavolainen ..... 641 ... 435
10.5cm sK 18 r9 ...... Horse ..... a1 ... ForestLaw ............. 637 ... 404 ... ==> Hummel r8 in 43e4 ?
15cm sFH r8 ........... Sd7 ........ r1 ... Raduku ................ 395 ... 396
17cm K 18 r6 .......... Sd8 ....... m1 ... Kei ..................... 650 ... 364
21cm NblWf 42 ........ Horse .... m1 ... ElBaron ................ 491 ... 383 ... ==> Tiger P+ in 43e4 ?
15cm NblWf 41 r11 ... Horse ..... a3 ... Singer .................. 509 ... 276 ... ==> Panzerwerfer in 43e4

4 Anti-Air
8.8cm Flak 36 ........ Sd7 ....... m1 ... Jemhadar .............. 721 ... 313 ... ==> 8.8cm Flak 41 ?
Cannone 90/53 r8 ... TP40 ....... a2 ... Zyavoo ................. 462 ... 274 ... ==> Lancia da 90/53 r7 ?
Flakpanzer I r12 ................... m1 ... Reoguru ................ 413 ... 305 ... ==> Bison I r8 ?
SdKfz 7/1 r13..................... a3a1 ... MalcolmRichardson ... 603 ... 329 ... ==> SdKfz 7/1+ r13 in 43e4 ?


15 Airforce

6+2 Single engine Fighters & Fighter Bomber
Bf 109 G-4 .......................... d3 ... vonThüringen ......... 453 ... 325 ... ==> Bf 109 G-6
Bf 109 F-4 ........................... d3 ... CouchOffiziell ........ 408 ... 311 ... ==> Bf 109 F-4+
Fw 190 F-2 .......................... a2 ... MafujKhan ............ 372 ... 303 ... ==> Fw 190 F-3 in 43e4
Fw 190 A-5 .......................... d2 ... Alvarez ................ 280 ... 277 ... ==> Fw 190 G-2 ==> Fw 190 A-5 in 43e4 ?
Re.2002 .............................. a3 ... Noxush ................ 440 ... 350 ... ==> Re.2005 in 43e4
MC.205 ............................... a2 ... BlackVulture ......... 302 ... 316 ... ==> MC.205+ in 43e4
+ 2x bonus SE hero fighters in 1945

2 Multi engine Fighter Bomber
Bf 110 G-2 ........................... d1 ... FighterAce ............ 632 ... 317 ... ==> Bf 110 G-4 ?
Ju 88 C-6+ ........................... i1 ... Slender1870 ........... 545 ... 343 ... ==> Ju 88 A-4 ?

2 Dedicated Tac Bomber
Hs 129 B-2 r11 ...................... a3 ... AratoBela .............. 717 ... 346 ... ==> Hs 129 B-2+ or BK in 43e4
Ju 87 D-3 ............................ a1 ... cmbbfan ............... 672 ... 320 ... ==> Ju 87 D-5 or G-1 r9 in 43e4

1 Tac/Strat Bomber
Ju 88 A-4 ............................ a1 ... AI181 ................... 438 ... 437 ... ==> Ju 188 E-1 in 43e4 ?

2 Dedicated Strat Bomber
Do 217 K ............................ d1 ... Richard ................. 307 ... 434
He 111 H-16 ........................ a1 ... RMA901 ................. 384 ... 432

[Locarnus]

I split quote myself and write in green within the quote, to make it easier to reply and answer in normal font color.
Just remove the outer quote when replying.

6+2+1 non-hero bonus SE units
Std Kav 42 ...................... a3s1 ... Brodrick ............. 1054 ... 313
Standard Inf 42 ................... d1 ... PatrickLee ........... 747 ... 315
Marder I ............................ i1 ... Dimitri ................ 565 ... 315 ... ==> Marder III in 43e4
7.62 Pak 36(r) /RSO ............. m1 ... PaulWilde ............ 391 ... 268 ... ==> 42M Toldi IIa in 43e4 ?
Semovente 47/32 ............. m1a3 ... Makorin .............. 901 ... 368 ... ==> 7.62 Pak40 /RSO in 43e4 ?
42M Toldi II ......................... ?? ... Eskuche ................ 51 .... 72 ... ==> 7.5cm FK 16 nA /Horse (arty) ?
plus 2 non-hero bonus SE units for the current 43 and the later 44 &45 grand campaign years

I plan to introduce the old 7.5cm FK 16 nA /Horse drawn arty for bonus SE in the next patch, to at least help new bonus SE units a little bit with experience catch up. This could free up the Toldi recon. Depending on your AT needs, Makorin with this bonus attack might be the better Pak than Paul Wilde?

6 Infantry
Pioniere 42 .......... L3000 ..... m1 ... Soljaism .............. 661 ... 278
Grenadiere 42 ...... Sd250/1 ... d2 ... RichardMartin ....... 665 ... 300
Jäger 42 ............................ d2 ... Artemis .............. 509 ... 275
Fallschirmjäger 42 .............. i1a2 ... Pullig ................. 758 ... 297
Kradschützen 42 ................... a1 ... PeteMitchell ........ 584 ... 304
Bersaglieri 42 ...................... a2 ... Kostia ................ 473 ... 250 ... ==> Sahariana ?

1 Towed AT (plus any bonus SE towed AT guns)
7.5 Pak 40 /Sd 11 ............. m1a2 ... Gigiduru .............. 604 ... 314 ... ==> 5 Pak38 in Sd 10 ==> self prop arty ?

Not much going on with infantry, they need experience. Pioniere can train on minefields around Kursk.
Gigiduru has great heroes, but for BE balancing reasons, this AT line does not continue to the big 8.8cm Pak. The 5 Pak 38 in Sd10 is an in family crossover to the tank class, from there Gigiduru could become any self propelled arty to train up his experience (but that would be an out of family upgrade).
edit: Gigiduru could use the route 5 Pak38 in Sd10 => switch to tank class => SdKfz 10/5 and then in 2cm AA mode even back to Flakpanzer I if you really really want to keep a Flakpanzer I around, this way it would have +2 attack compared to Reoguru but it would probably not be worth the effort. Imho Gigiduru should train as an arty instead.

2 Recon
Panzer II L+ ........................ d2 ... Goose .................. 727 ... 327 ... ==> Pz II Luchs 5cm in 43e4
SdKfz 233 r9 ..................... s1s1 ... DanielS ................ 629 ... 334 ... ==> SdKfz 233+ r9 in 43e4

10 Tanks
Tiger I H r9s8 ....................... d2 ... Temis .................. 523 ... 409 ... ==> Tiger I H in 43e4
Tiger P r9s8 ........................ m1 ... Gooseboy ............. 561 ... 326 ... ==> Tiger P+ s8 ==> Ferdinand s8 in 43e4
Marder II /131 ...................... i1 ... Blast ................... 611 ... 313 ... ==> Wespe ?
Marder III H ........................ m1 ... PanzerVorwärts ...... 663 ... 316 ... ==> Grille r8
Panzer III M ......................... a2 ... NightPhoenix ......... 703 ... 341 ... ==> StuH 42 ==> StuH 42+ in 43e4 ?
StuG III G ........................... m1 ... DoktorG ............... 803 ... 346 ... ==> StuG III G+ in 43e4
Panzer IV G+ ........................ s1 ... Rimski ................. 779 ... 277 ... ==> Panzer IV H in 43e4 ?
Panzer IV G ......................... s1 ... Soren ................... 587 ... 235 ... ==> Brummbär r8 in 43e4
T-34/43(r) r9 ....................... a3 ... 7Bowls ................. 652 ... 259
KV-1C(r) ............................. d2 ... Paramecium .......... 688 ... 275

Temis and Gooseboy get their planned upgrades. Many others should become self propelled arties for training.
You could perhaps keep one Panzer IV for "historical roleplaying", though 277 experience is still bad. Soren would have a frontline role with the well armored Brummbär, combining his spotting hero with arty experience training.

7 Mobile Arty
StuIG 33B r8 ..................... a2a2 ... Locarnus .............. 564 ... 344 ... ==> Flammpanzer III ?
Bison II (SturmPz II) r7 ............ d1 ... Festival ............... 600 ... 378 ... ==> Lorraine GW ?
StuG III E+ r11 ...................... r1 ... RayCaster ............. 542 ... 429 ... ==> StuIG 33B r8 ?
10.5 leFH auf B2(f) ............ m1a2 ... Pierre .................. 605 ... 391
Semovente 75/18 .................. d2 ... RightSide ............. 478 ... 354 ... ==> Semovente 75/34
Wurfrahmen 40 r8 .................. r1 ... Dneos ................. 705 ... 430 ... ==> Wurfrahmen 43 in 43e4
SU-122(r) r8 .......................... ?? ... Kapl ................... 126 ... 235

While enemy tanks might be the biggest problems, there are also lots of soft targets in fortifications around Kursk. The Flammpanzer III has 12 rof, military engineer and fortkiller traits. Might be worth a consideration with that +4 attack from heroes.
Festival Lorraine GW instead of Bison II, trading movement for better rof?
RayCaster with his range hero could take over the StuIG 33B, if Locarnus becomes a Flammpanzer, trading rof for damage, fortkiller and minekiller traits and armor?

7 Towed Arty
10.5cm Polish arty ... Blitz ...... a3 ... MichalGolaszewski ... 790 ... 438
10.5cm leFH 18M .... Horse ..... m1 ... Raunosavolainen ..... 641 ... 435
10.5cm sK 18 r9 ...... Horse ..... a1 ... ForestLaw ............. 637 ... 404 ... ==> Hummel r8 in 43e4 ?
15cm sFH r8 ........... Sd7 ........ r1 ... Raduku ................ 395 ... 396
17cm K 18 r6 .......... Sd8 ....... m1 ... Kei ..................... 650 ... 364
21cm NblWf 42 ........ Horse .... m1 ... ElBaron ................ 491 ... 383 ... ==> Tiger P+ in 43e4 ?
15cm NblWf 41 r11 ... Horse ..... a3 ... Singer .................. 509 ... 276 ... ==> Panzerwerfer in 43e4

The big question marks are here. What should become a Panther and a Tiger P, with Gooseboy upgrading to the Ferdinand?
Is a movement hero on the Tiger P+ worth it or would another hero be more beneficial? Trainig ElBaron in Orel and then making him the Tiger P+ in Ponyri would at least save some overstrength now, but then 5 stars would probably be forever out of reach. And both Tiger I H and Tiger P+ will not fare well against enemy IS-2 without considerable experience and hero advantage.
Hummel could be an option for range 3 arty moving with the tanks, but it is expensive and has limited ammo. Hummel is a bridge between those 15cm sFH / 10.5cm sK and Panzer IV chassis, while Nashorn is a bridge between Panzer IV chassis and 8.8cm upgrade family in AT mode.
Imho you could well use at least one more long 8.8cm gun, preferably with camo ability, either on Nashorn or towed as 8.8 Pak 41...

4 Anti-Air
8.8cm Flak 36 ........ Sd7 ....... m1 ... Jemhadar .............. 721 ... 313 ... ==> 8.8cm Flak 41 ?
Cannone 90/53 r8 ... TP40 ....... a2 ... Zyavoo ................. 462 ... 274 ... ==> Lancia da 90/53 r7 ?
Flakpanzer I r12 ................... m1 ... Reoguru ................ 413 ... 305 ... ==> Bison I => Brummbär in 43e4 => Nashorn ?
SdKfz 7/1 r13..................... a3a1 ... MalcolmRichardson ... 603 ... 329 ... ==> SdKfz 7/1+ r13 in 43e4 ?

I know you like that recon movement, but perhaps the Flakpanzer I is a bit underwhelming now? Just noticed that there is a viable in-family path from Flakpanzer I to Nashorn (325 prestige cost with the path due to now more expensive Brummbär) and then even back down to 8.8cm Pak. If you can hold off Soren becoming a Brummbär at the start of 43e4.
Though 4 AA would sure be useful in the coming scenarios...

15 Airforce

6+2 Single engine Fighters & Fighter Bomber
Bf 109 G-4 .......................... d3 ... vonThüringen ......... 453 ... 325 ... ==> Bf 109 G-6
Bf 109 F-4 ........................... d3 ... CouchOffiziell ........ 408 ... 311 ... ==> Bf 109 F-4+
Fw 190 F-2 .......................... a2 ... MafujKhan ............ 372 ... 303 ... ==> Fw 190 F-3 in 43e4
Fw 190 A-5 .......................... d2 ... Alvarez ................ 280 ... 277 ... ==> Fw 190 G-2 ==> Fw 190 A-5 in 43e4 ?
Re.2002 .............................. a3 ... Noxush ................ 440 ... 350 ... ==> Re.2005 in 43e4
MC.205 ............................... a2 ... BlackVulture ......... 302 ... 316 ... ==> MC.205+ in 43e4
+ 2x bonus SE hero fighters in 1945

Hm, Alvarez could become a Fw 190 G-2 for Orel 43e3 only, that might provide him with the experience to reach 3 stars for Kursk? The prestige cost of such a training stint is negligible at the moment.
With better Bf 109 and especially Italian fighters becoming available, those can probably take the lead against the flying enemy hordes.

2 Multi engine Fighter Bomber
Bf 110 G-2 ........................... d1 ... FighterAce ............ 632 ... 317 ... ==> Bf 110 G-4 ?
Ju 88 C-6+ ........................... i1 ... Slender1870 ........... 545 ... 343 ... ==> Ju 88 A-4 ?

2 Dedicated Tac Bomber
Hs 129 B-2 r11 ...................... a3 ... AratoBela .............. 717 ... 346 ... ==> Hs 129 B-2+ or BK in 43e4
Ju 87 D-3 ............................ a1 ... cmbbfan ............... 672 ... 320 ... ==> Ju 87 D-5 or G-1 r9 in 43e4

1 Tac/Strat Bomber
Ju 88 A-4 ............................ a1 ... AI181 ................... 438 ... 437 ... ==> Ju 188 E-1 in 43e4 ?

2 Dedicated Strat Bomber
Do 217 K ............................ d1 ... Richard ................. 307 ... 434
He 111 H-16 ........................ a1 ... RMA901 ................. 384 ... 432

Hs 129 and Ju 87 have generally better options from Ponyri 43e4, including the gun pods on the Ju 87.
With the improved single engine fighters and Fw 190 ground attackers available and the dedicated tac bombers probably using guns, perhaps Slender1870 could be converted to Ju 88 A-4 for experience training?
FighterAce could take a look at the Bf 110 G-4, if you need a bit more aircraft spotting at Ponyri.

[goose_2]

There is so much here, I do not even no where to begin. I have so many thoughts and no time to type them all up, so I will probably save for Sunday, but I am doing some serious rethinking on who gets P Tiger and Panther update, based on certain unit heroes, and exp, and needed kills for my remaining units...so much to consider.

10.5cm Polish arty ... Blitz ...... a3 ... MichalGolaszewski ... 790 ... 438
just makes so much sense as an arty, I am not sure he will ever change

[Locarnus]

There is so much here, I do not even no where to begin. I have so many thoughts and no time to type them all up, so I will probably save for Sunday, but I am doing some serious rethinking on who gets P Tiger and Panther update, based on certain unit heroes, and exp, and needed kills for my remaining units...so much to consider.

10.5cm Polish arty ... Blitz ...... a3 ... MichalGolaszewski ... 790 ... 438
just makes so much sense as an arty, I am not sure he will ever change

Yep, but imho Panther and Tiger P should be at or very close to 4 stars for Kursk.
Especially the first two scenarios where you will need a DV require your A team.
Not many units matching that AND having good heroes, particularly for the Panther.

Some more thoughts on other areas:
Bonus SE: Brodrick could simply get the Toldi IIa tank, it would have nice synergy with the spotting hero. PaulWilde stays as 7.62 Pak, while Makorin upgrades to Flakpanzer I instead (with his m1a3 heroes). Thus you would have 4 more potent AA, despite Reoguru in current Flakpanzer I becoming something else.
AT: I could make the Soviet switchable arty/AT gun available for the Grand Campaign, but not BE. That would give Gigiduru a good, high rof, in family arty training option. They were historically used when captured anyway and it would not affect BE balancing.

6+2+1 non-hero bonus SE units
Std Kav 42 ...................... a3s1 ... Brodrick ............. 1054 ... 313 ... ==> 42M Toldi IIa in 43e4 ?
Standard Inf 42 ................... d1 ... PatrickLee ........... 747 ... 315
Marder I ............................ i1 ... Dimitri ................ 565 ... 315 ... ==> Marder III in 43e4
7.62 Pak 36(r) /RSO ............. m1 ... PaulWilde ............ 391 ... 268 ... ==> 7.62 Pak40 /RSO in 43e4
Semovente 47/32 ............. m1a3 ... Makorin .............. 901 ... 368 ... ==> Flakpanzer I ?
42M Toldi II ......................... ?? ... Eskuche ................ 51 .... 72 ... ==> 7.5cm FK 16 nA /Horse (arty) ?
plus 2 non-hero bonus SE units for the current 43 and the later 44 &45 grand campaign years

I plan to introduce the old 7.5cm FK 16 nA /Horse drawn arty for bonus SE in the next patch, to at least help new bonus SE units a little bit with experience catch up.
new: Brodrick then gets the new Toldi. And Makorin takes the Flakpanzer I, while Reoguru becomes something else.

[goose_2]

6+2+1 non-hero bonus SE units
Std Kav 42 ...................... a3s1 ... Brodrick ............. 1054 ... 313 ... ==> 42M Toldi IIa in 43e4 ?
Standard Inf 42 ................... d1 ... PatrickLee ........... 747 ... 315
Marder I ............................ i1 ... Dimitri ................ 565 ... 315 ... ==> Marder III in 43e4
7.62 Pak 36(r) /RSO ............. m1 ... PaulWilde ............ 391 ... 268 ... ==> 7.62 Pak40 /RSO in 43e4
Semovente 47/32 ............. m1a3 ... Makorin .............. 901 ... 368 ... ==> Flakpanzer I ?
42M Toldi II ......................... ?? ... Eskuche ................ 51 .... 72 ... ==> 7.5cm FK 16 nA /Horse (arty) ?
plus 2 non-hero bonus SE units for the current 43 and the later 44 &45 grand campaign years

I plan to introduce the old 7.5cm FK 16 nA /Horse drawn arty for bonus SE in the next patch, to at least help new bonus SE units a little bit with experience catch up.
new: Brodrick then gets the new Toldi. And Makorin takes the Flakpanzer I, while Reoguru becomes something else.

I love this idea

[goose_2]

6 Infantry
Pioniere 42 .......... L3000 ..... m1 ... Soljaism .............. 661 ... 278
Grenadiere 42 ...... Sd250/1 ... d2 ... RichardMartin ....... 665 ... 300
Jäger 42 ............................ d2 ... Artemis .............. 509 ... 275
Fallschirmjäger 42 .............. i1a2 ... Pullig ................. 758 ... 297
Kradschützen 42 ................... a1 ... PeteMitchell ........ 584 ... 304
Bersaglieri 42 ...................... a2 ... Kostia ................ 473 ... 250 ... ==> Sahariana ?

Based on my playthrough and Soren's playthrough I see myself needing to bring all inf into Orel, except maybe Pullig, but they all, read all, need more kills and exp to prepare for what is to come, so using all would be a good idea.

[eskuche]

I don't see many good locations for infantry to participate in Orel unless you plan on farming the partisans (low xp). Once you let the soviets hold the top city they will shift to the central/southern sectors.

[goose_2]

1 Towed AT (plus any bonus SE towed AT guns)
7.5 Pak 40 /Sd 11 ............. m1a2 ... Gigiduru .............. 604 ... 314 ... ==> 5 Pak38 in Sd 10 ==> self prop arty ?

Not much going on with infantry, they need experience. Pioniere can train on minefields around Kursk.
Gigiduru has great heroes, but for BE balancing reasons, this AT line does not continue to the big 8.8cm Pak. The 5 Pak 38 in Sd10 is an in family crossover to the tank class, from there Gigiduru could become any self propelled arty to train up his experience (but that would be an out of family upgrade).
edit: Gigiduru could use the route 5 Pak38 in Sd10 => switch to tank class => SdKfz 10/5 and then in 2cm AA mode even back to Flakpanzer I if you really really want to keep a Flakpanzer I around, this way it would have +2 attack compared to Reoguru but it would probably not be worth the effort. Imho Gigiduru should train as an arty instead.

Not sure what to do about Gigiduru, as I intended to use Pak's, but find myself using them more as SE units. Still thinking about this one.

2 Recon
Panzer II L+ ........................ d2 ... Goose .................. 727 ... 327 ... ==> Pz II Luchs 5cm in 43e4
SdKfz 233 r9 ..................... s1s1 ... DanielS ................ 629 ... 334 ... ==> SdKfz 233+ r9 in 43e4



10 Tanks
Tiger I H r9s8 ....................... d2 ... Temis .................. 523 ... 409 ... ==> Tiger I H in 43e4
Tiger P r9s8 ........................ m1 ... Gooseboy ............. 561 ... 326 ... ==> Tiger P+ s8 ==> Ferdinand s8 in 43e4
Marder II /131 ...................... i1 ... Blast ................... 611 ... 313 ... ==> Wespe ?
Marder III H ........................ m1 ... PanzerVorwärts ...... 663 ... 316 ... ==> Grille r8
Panzer III M ......................... a2 ... NightPhoenix ......... 703 ... 341 ... ==> StuH 42 ==> StuH 42+ in 43e4 ?
StuG III G ........................... m1 ... DoktorG ............... 803 ... 346 ... ==> StuG III G+ in 43e4
Panzer IV G+ ........................ s1 ... Rimski ................. 779 ... 277 ... ==> Panzer IV H in 43e4 ?
Panzer IV G ......................... s1 ... Soren ................... 587 ... 235 ... ==> Brummbär r8 in 43e4
T-34/43(r) r9 ....................... a3 ... 7Bowls ................. 652 ... 259
KV-1C(r) ............................. d2 ... Paramecium .......... 688 ... 275

Temis and Gooseboy get their planned upgrades. Many others should become self propelled arties for training.
You could perhaps keep one Panzer IV for "historical roleplaying", though 277 experience is still bad. Soren would have a frontline role with the well armored Brummbär, combining his spotting hero with arty experience training.

recons are so much better in the mod then they are in the regular game, I am so pleased with giving them more of a shine, especially all the fun I continue to have fun in my Pz2 recon. (This is the best I have seen recons ever get utilized in a game.)

7 Mobile Arty
StuIG 33B r8 ..................... a2a2 ... Locarnus .............. 564 ... 344 ... ==> Flammpanzer III ?
Bison II (SturmPz II) r7 ............ d1 ... Festival ............... 600 ... 378 ... ==> Lorraine GW ?
StuG III E+ r11 ...................... r1 ... RayCaster ............. 542 ... 429 ... ==> StuIG 33B r8 ?
10.5 leFH auf B2(f) ............ m1a2 ... Pierre .................. 605 ... 391
Semovente 75/18 .................. d2 ... RightSide ............. 478 ... 354 ... ==> Semovente 75/34
Wurfrahmen 40 r8 .................. r1 ... Dneos ................. 705 ... 430 ... ==> Wurfrahmen 43 in 43e4
SU-122(r) r8 .......................... ?? ... Kapl ................... 126 ... 235

Mobile arty does not garner as much in exp as their towed counterparts, because they are limited by ammo count and rof and as such just are not as versatile as their towed counterparts.
Festival is the one I am seriously considering for the Panther upgrade since he is super close to 4 stars, while even though I have used him since the beginning he is lacking in kills. Thoughts?
Pierre will always remain in his mobile arty phase, as his 3 range and ability to punch when I need him is the ace in the hole I need more and more in this playthrough. No way am I changing a 3 range mobile arty.
Ideas for you, A4 capabilities should be garnering more kills than he is acquiring, he is struggling in exp for an arty, but is also struggling in kills, so I am open to change, just not sure Flamm is the best play.
RayCaster has exp, but struggling in kills, do you think the StuIG 33B is the right choice, if so why would it be better than the StuG III E+?
Dneos is dominating as the Wurfrahmen. So glad I have that in my pocket for fast moving rocket destruction, just super low on ammo count, does the 43 upgrade have more ammo?
Rightside nothing much to say about him as he is what he is, but once I get 4 stars should I consider the Glass Cannon Semovante?
Kapl will struggle, but he is strong defensive unit that has many uses, I am hoping for a Defensive hero to lean into his defensive capabilities.

That is it for now as better get some work done.

[goose_2]

I don't see many good locations for infantry to participate in Orel unless you plan on farming the partisans (low xp). Once you let the soviets hold the top city they will shift to the central/southern sectors.

For good use of inf, I would watch my playthrough on Ultimate which I brought 7 of them to help hold defensive positions.

[Locarnus]

1 Towed AT (plus any bonus SE towed AT guns)
7.5 Pak 40 /Sd 11 ............. m1a2 ... Gigiduru .............. 604 ... 314 ... ==> new 7.62 FK 288(r) (ZiS-3)

Not sure what to do about Gigiduru, as I intended to use Pak's, but find myself using them more as SE units. Still thinking about this one.
I'll make the Soviet towed ZiS-3 available for GC and AK, which is switchable between AT and Arty mode. Thus Gigiduru can upgrade in family to it and train up in its 11 rof arty mode. A big towed 8.8cm Pak would be nice to take over the AT duties in the meantime.

I highly recommend using Ctrl + Shift + Alt + C and then "endscn 0" to get a better idea about all the upgrade options available for Ponyri. There are so many of them. And then retroactively plan for Orel.

10 Tanks
Tiger I H r9s8 ....................... d2 ... Temis .................. 523 ... 409 ... ==> Tiger I H in 43e4
Tiger P r9s8 ........................ m1 ... Gooseboy ............. 561 ... 326 ... ==> Tiger P+ s8 ==> Ferdinand s8 in 43e4
Marder II /131 ...................... i1 ... Blast ................... 611 ... 313 ... ==> Wespe ?
Marder III H ........................ m1 ... PanzerVorwärts ...... 663 ... 316 ... ==> Grille r8
Panzer III M ......................... a2 ... NightPhoenix ......... 703 ... 341 ... ==> Flammpanzer III ?
StuG III G ........................... m1 ... DoktorG ............... 803 ... 346 ... ==> StuG III G+ in 43e4
Panzer IV G+ ........................ s1 ... Rimski ................. 779 ... 277 ... ==> Panzer IV H in 43e4 ?
Panzer IV G ......................... s1 ... Soren ................... 587 ... 235 ... ==> Brummbär r8 in 43e4
T-34/43(r) r9 ....................... a3 ... 7Bowls ................. 652 ... 259
KV-1C(r) ............................. d2 ... Paramecium .......... 688 ... 275

7 Mobile Arty
StuIG 33B r8 ..................... a2a2 ... Locarnus .............. 564 ... 344 ... ==> StuH 42 ==> StuH 42+ in 43e4 ?
Bison II (SturmPz II) r7 ............ d1 ... Festival ............... 600 ... 378 ... ==> Lorraine GW ?
StuG III E+ r11 ...................... r1 ... RayCaster ............. 542 ... 429 ... ==> StuIG 33B r8 ?
10.5 leFH auf B2(f) ............ m1a2 ... Pierre .................. 605 ... 391
Semovente 75/18 .................. d2 ... RightSide ............. 478 ... 354 ... ==> Semovente 75/34
Wurfrahmen 40 r8 .................. r1 ... Dneos ................. 705 ... 430 ... ==> Wurfrahmen 43 in 43e4
SU-122(r) r8 .......................... ?? ... Kapl ................... 126 ... 235

Mobile arty does not garner as much in exp as their towed counterparts, because they are limited by ammo count and rof and as such just are not as versatile as their towed counterparts.
Yep, but they are often directly available and not much different in prestige costs compared to the tanks with their much better upgrade families due to switching.

Festival is the one I am seriously considering for the Panther upgrade since he is super close to 4 stars, while even though I have used him since the beginning he is lacking in kills. Thoughts?
Imho the Panther needs both stars and good heroes against the hordes of superior IS-2 in the grand campaign.
Panther A ..... 11 ini, 18 HA, 19 GD
IS-2 (1943) .... 12 ini, 20 HA, 20 GD
Panther G ..... 11 ini, 18 HA, 20 GD
IS-2 (1944) .... 13 ini, 20 HA, 22 GD (and a defensive AA MG against air attackers)
The normal Tiger I is even worse than the Panther vs the IS-2 and the Tiger P+ lacks the strength numbers.
The only aspect holding the IS-2 back is its abysmal 7 rate of fire.
But even with that low rof, the IS-2 will be a major problem, since the low production Tiger II will be an 8 strength unit until very late 1944 and can't be everywhere anyway. Leaving only your tank destroyers to hold the line.
Eskuche and thejf can at least throw prestige at them in terms of overstrength and elite reinforcements.
==> edit: Problem is that I do not see a good alternative at the moment, except for MichalGolaszewski...


Pierre will always remain in his mobile arty phase, as his 3 range and ability to punch when I need him is the ace in the hole I need more and more in this playthrough. No way am I changing a 3 range mobile arty.
I understand his usefulness as an arty, but someone has to stop the enemy IS-2 at the frontline as well.

Ideas for you, A4 capabilities should be garnering more kills than he is acquiring, he is struggling in exp for an arty, but is also struggling in kills, so I am open to change, just not sure Flamm is the best play.
Hm, the Flamm might be better for NightPhoenix, since he still needs a second hero. Then Locarnus could take the StuH 42 instead. I just changed that in the table above.
Flamm with attack hero is absolutely great in the coming scenarios, especially for getting lots of kills from soft targets in fortifications.

RayCaster has exp, but struggling in kills, do you think the StuIG 33B is the right choice, if so why would it be better than the StuG III E+?
Higher damage should translate to more kills, despite lower rof. And the StuIG 33B has better armor and can situationally switch to tank mode with decent ini and attack values, for even more kills.

Dneos is dominating as the Wurfrahmen. So glad I have that in my pocket for fast moving rocket destruction, just super low on ammo count, does the 43 upgrade have more ammo?
All german self propelled rocket launchers have 3 ammo (except technically that special Sturmtiger).
Wurfrahmen 43 has 1 better range and damage than Wurfrahmen 40, so it will be a killer.
Panzerwerfer is much worse in most situations, but its 12 rate of fire makes it fantastic for experience farming. If you eg use it with a good attack hero like Singer (a3) and a bit of overstrength against soft targets, it can propel him to 4 stars like nothing else.

Rightside nothing much to say about him as he is what he is, but once I get 4 stars should I consider the Glass Cannon Semovante?
I would stay away from the Semovente 90/53, too slow and squishy for the Eastern Front. Especially compared to the Nashorn with the long 8.8, which can actually be deadly in ambushes, with defensive arty help.

Kapl will struggle, but he is strong defensive unit that has many uses, I am hoping for a Defensive hero to lean into his defensive capabilities.
Another ground defense nerf incoming for the SU-122 (and most other armored soviet tank destroyers).
SU-122 is struggling with kills due to being late to the party and can't keep up in terms of defense values compared to the big soviet tanks. A defense hero won't significantly change any of that, but a +2 or +3 attack hero can help a lot. I would certainly not accept anything other than a2 or a3 hero for him!

[Locarnus]

I'm trying to finish the next 2024-04 Addon update.
If there are any last minute requests?

[eskuche]

I'm trying to finish the next 2024-04 Addon update.
If there are any last minute requests?

Just in time! No requests from me, except faster
Here's a snapshot of Kremenchug. No need to eliminate all enemy units. Most of the singular points of damage has been from artillery, actually. The +6defense KV-85 took a hit from the enemy lieutenant and lost two strength this subsequent turn, but otherwise it has been smooth sailing. Two fighter heroes who transitioned to strat bombers are also 5 star at this point, with one transitioned back. FM Rommel ~48k prestige with some lavish spending on cross class upgrades, e.g., moving my morser with 3 defense onto Brummbar.



Note the farming operation in the amphibious landing zone. Allenberger and Sutkus are ~380-390 experience on the GebGeschutz. A initiative hero arty (originally a StuG) is almost at 5 stars ready to debut as maybe a Jagdpanther. The 7.5 fK also has almost 5 stars and no hero yet. As mentioned a couple posts back, firing with 11-12 attack artillery after experience bonus is very very optimal against 2 star enemy '43 infantry in a city, since they will have around 13-14 defense, just enough to give maximum experience per attack.

Full roster after I finish Kiev.

[goose_2]

Full roster after I finish Kiev.

Oh shoot!

Look at all that os you gave yourself. No way can I fford that kind of coin. Was that necessary or is that always how you play with a fully loaded force?

I plan on doing that sort of for Kursk, within reason, but this is full bore all out spending on a level I just never do.

Thanks for the update and insight.

[Locarnus]

[...]
Note the farming operation in the amphibious landing zone. Allenberger and Sutkus are ~380-390 experience on the GebGeschutz. A initiative hero arty (originally a StuG) is almost at 5 stars ready to debut as maybe a Jagdpanther. The 7.5 fK also has almost 5 stars and no hero yet. As mentioned a couple posts back, firing with 11-12 attack artillery after experience bonus is very very optimal against 2 star enemy '43 infantry in a city, since they will have around 13-14 defense, just enough to give maximum experience per attack.

Full roster after I finish Kiev.

Looks like a formidable force you are fielding, with some third heroes and plenty os as goose_2 mentioned.
Your training regime is really paying off now, lots of higher rof units in your farming area.

Nice screenshot with that 14 str 3 hero Panther vs that enemy 13 str IS-2 (1943).
I see neither Tiger P nor an Elefant, but instead an overstrength Nashorn! Did the Nashorn work ok for you?
The Jagdpanther is tough to balance, Germany should have produced many more of those. Probably the best allrounder TD of WW2.
I also like the Jagdpanzer IV /70. It is practically a better Panther against enemy tanks in the open, except for the mobility issues. And it has camo AT mode, something the Jagdpanther lacks.