Locarnus Addon 2025-08, for Battlefield Europe, Afrika Korps and Grand Campaign East

[eskuche]

Sevastopol and Stalingrad will be much more manageable with your very experienced infantry and heroes like Oleh Dir.
I like your inclusion of that railway arty, though I would recommend against a Gustav. Just too little rof and ammo for the GrandCampaign as a core unit. And Sevastopol provides you with heavily overstrengthed Gustav to compensate at least somewhat.

Changed my mind on the Gustav. The kills converted to suppression mechanic is pretty good. Sometimes you don't need to kill a KV-xx, just have it repair for a turn, and besides usually my fronts are saturated with units, so the 7 range gives an extra oomph. Also helps knock out sole AA.

[thejf]

This is in the game files on your computer in each individual DLC named campaign.pzdat (not exactly sure on the extension). Notably in 1942 a lot of the losses are worth the same as a decisive victory. Given that SE units no longer are a money tree and depending on your pride and bonus hidden units, it might actually be worth just farming the first half of some maps and taking the L, although I haven't done this per se yet.

Thanks eskuche, found the info. Looks like in '43 every mission where you're allowed a loss pays just as much for a loss as for a DV (and Belgorod even pays more for a loss!). Not planning on taking any L's in '43 but may well have to do so in '44 in some of those tough defensive missions.

[eskuche]

Some feedback:
Movement is growing less and less on me. The decimals make it really really hard to calculate things, and IMHO it's not intuitive. I think vanilla with a flat equivalent modifier on roads and maybe a similar small round number buff for wide-tracked would make things much easier to keep track of (20-25%, so 1 extra MP every 4-5 MP). Not to take away from all the thought that's gone into it, but it is I think getting to the point of detail overriding gameplay.

I think the reduced ROF on soviet armor is an underrated nerf. If you leave their units at 1 after kills/suppression and initiative calculations, any ROF < 10 unit gets 0 shots, so it's almost like adding another damage to all your rolls.

The air game with +1 AA attack per level has made it quite annoying and perhaps realistic to deal with, even with setting up traps. Perhaps I just need more AA, as they do double as conscript eliminators. A couple of turns of bad weather and you end up with multiple waves of enemy planes stacking together in the winter months, oof.

The lack of good german armor up to late '42 has been a major challenge thus far, since I haven't been heavily invested in getting heroes transferred 8.8 cms. I think I am just averse to using them because they get eaten by SP artillery for breakfast. The super heroes does perhaps make it a bit too easy once you get them running. I may eat my words in the coming years.

Edit for more balance things:
Unclear what the Bf-109 G series is doing. F-4 is better than all of them overall?
Recon is still very difficult to use efficiently, even moreso with the movement calculations. I've stuck with one 223+ (4 spot) with spotting for almost the entire game.
Still waiting for my bonus unit transports...

Incoming '42 end core..

[eskuche]

The payoff is finally here for all that artillery grinding. It has lessened a bunch this year, but I've grinded some conscript kills to great effect. I have probably 50% more than expected +3 attack or defense heroes, including a 6 defense hero sitting on the KV, so I am really happy about that, but only 1 range hero. Again, I don't think range matters as much compared to vanilla here. The main issue is that it's really hard to grind for heroes on artillery, as everyone knows, although the switchable Geb geschutze actually really help out with that against conscripts. However, my raw amount of experience on my units I'm very happy with, with just four 2 star units left.

Infantry: Some thoughts. Initiative cap in cities and forests is 1 and 2. In the end-game, infantry will get +3 experience initiative, so your basic infantry will have 6, better infantry 7, and elite infantry (paratroops '43-44 I think is the only base 5?) initiative not counting heroes. With the possible +2 initiative differential roll, it is still probably a good idea to stack 1-3 initiative heroes onto infantry. Unfortunately, I have rolled literally only one initiative hero (currently leveling up as a StuG). Note that close terrain initiative is capped AFTER surrounding bonuses, so it might actually be the most important stat to have on infantry. I still only have my 4 bonus infantry + Oleh Dir. Two italian infantry are sacrificial air transports. I an converting that one initiative StuG to infantry once it hits 475 experience in '43 and hopefully at least one more infantry after that. I think using Wirnsberger/Kerscher/Rondorf with +2 initiative along with other stats on infantry is overkill and not necessary. I will probably just grab a grenadier in '43 and maybe a paratroop if I get an defense + initiative infantry.

Tanks: I have surprisingly made do with a very sparse front line. Towed AT partially cover this role as I will describe later but do lack in experience gain since they don't always spring their ambushes. The mainstay is my two named hero StuG III Fs and Kerscher on the strongest Pz IV. The + 6 defense KV-1C was kind of a joke but still has only lost one strength point in about 4 maps with no overstrength, definitely super value for funneling enemy units. The T-34 has underperformed. I try to have 2 fronts with one MBT and surrounding hexes baited with the StuGs and the towed AT.

AT: I gave up on marders. Any lucky roll decimates them and even at their cheap prestige it (mentally) wasn't worth it. Plus they will take more and more SP artillery fire in the coing years. The towed AT at least skips the initial artillery strike phase in the AI turn, and they are holding up very well against 1-2 star enemy infantry for now. They get to take care of the T-70s + other recon as well at the BT-7s with no support and the T34s with 1-2 artillery support. Unsure what I am moving to SP AT in '43 and onwards. However, the towed slots are diminishing extremely fast. I took a peek and I think the 8.8 PaK is the only one worth grabbing moving forward, and of course SP ART vulnerability is always an issue.

Artillery: Still comprises almost half the core (28 units), but most of them can pinch hit to smash conscripts or enemy artillery. The mainstays of Gustav (see above post on efficiency) and the K5 and the Morsers are doing work suppressing KVs for sure. The innate high range over vanilla PC allows them to stay out of enemy SP ARTfire in the coming years. The StuGs are mainly there to ensure that they are able to fire every single turn possible in order to grab the most experience. Moving forward, the Char/StuIG are my needartillerydeterrantmobile force, while everything else an inch up. The wuhrframen has been great occasionally but very hard to use in defense. Artillery recon is extremely underwhelming, as it doesn't have recon move in that mode. I am not sure the Su-122 was a great idea. It has only 8 ROF but does have 15 armor for protected advances. I am not sure when I get to upgrade into it myself....I think I will toss it.

AA: I desperately lack a 4th anti-air. It may be an 88 in the backfield if any of my 4 star artillery in training get a bad hero. The italian truck has been great so far, but again, SP ART bait coming up, and I'm not so sure high end level bombers won't straight up attack it.

Air: I've relegated the gift fighter heroes to level bombers. I think the goal is to bump them up at 475 experience as soon as possible, playing defensively, and convert to the newest fighters. Since I've only gotten defense heroes mainly, I don't know how much I want to invest in the air force. Full experience strats I feel are probably enough, especially given the decreased ROF of IS-1/2s. Rudel on the Ju-88 fighter has been a mixed bag. He can fighter trap VERY well still in that role but cannot attack with his initiative, so he's still relegated to bombing in fighter mode anyway. I think I should suck up the 500 and swap to a high initiative fighter. Recon rudel has been surprisingly useful. Three recon units -- Kerscher, safe to advance with 4 spotting, 5 spotting 223+ for the roads, and recon rudel along known safe passages, e.g., next to a river, to avoid enemy AA, has generally been enough. I can't stress enough that fully knowing the maps is a really big advantage and allows you that extra space without recon.

'43 plans: fish for first heroes on the few remaining artillery and start building up 4-7 more front line units, equivalent to the number of SE units you'd have in vanilla.

[thejf]

Great update eskuche and nice timing as I was just about to post my core on starting GC43e3. Next post will detail my situation, for now some comments on your findings:

Air game: this is the reason why I decided to go big on fighters. If you don't eliminate a significant part of each air wave the remainder will just come back with the next wave. Next thing you know 10+ Soviet aircraft are strafing everything in sight. So far in the first missions of '43 I barely lost any strenght points on my fighters, so costs have been low, but the big question will be if this is maintainable long run.

Armour: I've found 3 star towed AT and infantry to be remarkably effective as open ground defenders against enemy armour, provided there is no enemy SPAG around. Even a 13 str T34 will not deal more then 3-4 damage to them. This is equal to Pz IV's and far less then Marders. Agree on those, they cannot be safely put on the front line. I do find them useful as tank finishers and in AT (ambush) mode. SPAG's are an issue though, especially with the SU76 now being a range 3 unit. They have been hiting my low defense SPAG's (Bison, Lorraine) so I think front line artillery support will have to be high defense going forward. Which makes it essential to find more range heroes.

[thejf]

Starting core for GC43e3 at 41k prestige. @Locarnus: I've been using the German unit class library extensively, but in preparing for the current mission I found some errors. The StuH 42 is labeled as class-based artillery, but instead it is in the leFH group. Also the artillery mode of the SdKfz 233 is not mentioned and the 10.5 sK 18 is missing from the sFH group.

Class........Unit...............Transport.......Hero.......Kills.....XP......Upgrade
SE.........Standard Infantry.......................1D-1I.......1111...413
SE...........7.62 Pak 36 (r)..........RSO...........1M.........602....403
SE...........Kavallerie 42..........................1A-1S........800....393
SE..............Marder I...............................1D.........273....335
SE...........SdKfz 10/4+.............................1A..........402....394
SE...........7.62 FK 36 (r)...........UE (f).......................30.....105

The bruckenpioniere was no longer competitive as an infantry but has been great as a towed AT. Flak is OK but needs attack heroes. Decided to make the latest SE unit an AT, so far it has been useful cannon fodder in open ground.

INF............Grenadiere.........SdKfz 250/1...1A-1A........830.....378
INF..............Pioniere..............L3000........1I-1M........898.....372
INF..........Wehrmacht '42..........L3000.........3D..........775......402
INF.......Fallschirmjager '42.......................1A-1A.......768......401
INF.........Gebirgsjager '42 ..........................1S.........679......409
INF..............Jager '42............................3D-2D........662.....403
INF.........Kradschutzen '42........................1S-1S........767.....416

Really pleased so far with their ability to soak up damage but we'll see how they hold up against higher SA tanks. No major plans with them other then getting them all to 4 star 2 heroes

TA.............Pz III M................................3D-1D........786.....373 -> Panther in '44?
TA.............Pz IV F2.................................1I...........557.....347 -> Remain in Pz IV?
TA.............Pz IV G+................................1M..........834.....395 -> 10.5 sK 18 via Hummel?
TA.............StuG III G................................2D..........596.....380
TA.............Tiger P..................................1M...........507.....354 -> Elefant
TA.............T34-43 (r)..............................3A...........759.....364 -> ?
TA.............Tiger I.................................3A-2D.........554....388
TA.............KV 1C (r)................................1A...........796.....367 -> ?
TA.............Marder 3H...............................1I...........717.....374 -> ?
TA.............StuG III F/8..............................2A..........975.....376 -> StuH 42
TA.............BuFla.....................................3D..........734.....384 -> Panther
TA.............7.5 Pak 40...............RSO...........1M...........566.....378 -> 8.8 Pak 43

One of the big question categories. The T34 has been immune to Soviet attacks thanks to that 3A hero, so think I will leave him and the KV be to see what second hero they get. The StuG III F/8 and Pz IV G+ will be switched to try to farm range heroes. All high DEF heroes will become Panthers to try and make those proper frontline units.
The Tiger 1 was formerly a Flakpanzer 1, it just received that 3A hero.

REC...........SdKfz 233................................1S............420.....429
REC..........Pz II Luchs+...............................1S............399.....423
AA............Flakpanzer 1.............................2A-1S........831.....341
AA.............SdKfz 7/2................................2A............444.....381
AA.............SdKfz 7/1................................1D............602.....405 -> Tank?
AA.............8.8 Flak 36..............................1A-1M........955.....362 -> 8.8 Flak 41

Grouped these together as their setup is pretty much final. The Flak 1 was upgraded from a B2 Flamm and the 8.8 from a Pz IV.

ART.............15 sFH 18.............SdKfz 7..........1M...........394.....431
ART..............17 K 18...............SdKfz 8..........1S............344.....416
ART............21 Nblwf 42...........Maultier..........1R...........357......443
ART...........105mm mle 1913 (f)..Opel Blitz........1A...........469......447
ART..............10.5 sK 18............SdKfz 7..........1S...........304......439 -> Pz IV G+ via Hummel?
ART.............10.5 GebH 40........Kettenkrad.......1A...........306.....443
ART.............10.5 leFH 18M.......Maultier...........1M...........581.....436
ART..............StuG 3E..................................1R............455.....425 -> sIG33 assault gun
ART..............Bison 2...................................2A............618.....375 -> Wespe?
ART...........10.5 leFH B2 (f)..........................................211......421 -> StuG III F/8 via StuH42
ART..............Lorraine GW..............................1I...........356......389 -> Tank?
ART..............SU 122 (r)..............................................112......297

The second big question category. Lots of transfer option, I think a lot will depend on the second heroes farmed in the next few missions.

FIG..............Bf 109 G-2................................3A...........438......369 -> Bf 109 G-6
FIG..............Bf 109 G-4................................1A...........421......354
FIG..............Bf 109 F-2.................................1A...........380......376
FIG..............Bf 109 F-4+................................1A...........402......377
FIG..............Fw 190 A-5................................1A...........385......349
FIG..............Fw 190 A-3................................1A...........346......333
TAC..............HS 129 B-2................................1A...........517......418
TAC..............JU 87 D-3.................................2D...........247.......345
TAC..............Bf 110 G-2................................1D...........462.......406
TAC..............Bf 110 F-2.................................1S...........318.......337
TAC..............JU 88 C-6+................................1A...........431.......406
STR...............Do 217 E-2.............................................144.......361
STR..............He 111 H-16...............................1D..........207.......425
STR...............JU 88 A-4...............................................201.......450

Not much to say here with such a one-sided hero pool. Just working to get to 4 stars and second hero's.

[Locarnus]

Some feedback:
Movement is growing less and less on me. The decimals make it really really hard to calculate things, and IMHO it's not intuitive. I think vanilla with a flat equivalent modifier on roads and maybe a similar small round number buff for wide-tracked would make things much easier to keep track of (20-25%, so 1 extra MP every 4-5 MP). Not to take away from all the thought that's gone into it, but it is I think getting to the point of detail overriding gameplay.

I agree that the movement system is rather bad.
It is a dilemma between comprehensibility, unit class & terrain balancing, and PzC 1 hero system.
Only 2 of those 3 can be satisfied.
Imho unmodded PzC 1 mostly went with the first, which allows counting hexes to eg anticipate enemy movement.
I tried to go for 2nd and 3rd. Imho not easily being able to count enemy movement was really annoying at first, but it also made the game less puzzle like for me. Similar to going back to full rng after some time of playing on reduced rng.

After your request a while back, I'm slowly but surely working on a proper library entry for the movement, and trimming some values and categories while doing so. Will be ready for the planned early April update.
Though since the movement file is only loaded when starting a new campaign, it won't affect an ongoing campaign (but every chapter of the GC counts as a new campaign).
I'm also hesitant on making drastic changes, but I will see what I can do to make it a bit more manageable.

I think the reduced ROF on soviet armor is an underrated nerf. If you leave their units at 1 after kills/suppression and initiative calculations, any ROF < 10 unit gets 0 shots, so it's almost like adding another damage to all your rolls.

Yep, all rof <10 disproportionately affect units the lower their strength is.
Low rof combined with high attack values also has a tendency to produce more varying results for the same expected outcome.
Like 3d6 and 1d20 both have an expected value of 10.5, but the first produces results between 3-18 on a bell curve shaped distribution.

The air game with +1 AA attack per level has made it quite annoying and perhaps realistic to deal with, even with setting up traps. Perhaps I just need more AA, as they do double as conscript eliminators. A couple of turns of bad weather and you end up with multiple waves of enemy planes stacking together in the winter months, oof.

Imho you need at least one towed 8.8cm Flak.
The SdKfz 7/1 with the quad 2cm mount is a decent dual purpose unit due to its high rof. Combined with a good attack hero and overstrength, it can still do quite some damage.
I'll write more on the aircraft in the next post.

The lack of good german armor up to late '42 has been a major challenge thus far, since I haven't been heavily invested in getting heroes transferred 8.8 cms. I think I am just averse to using them because they get eaten by SP artillery for breakfast. The super heroes does perhaps make it a bit too easy once you get them running. I may eat my words in the coming years.

Yep, 41 and 42 are the times of the armor struggle for Germany.
The 8.8cm Flak and then HEAT and long 7.5cm guns had to hold out.

Edit for more balance things:
Unclear what the Bf-109 G series is doing. F-4 is better than all of them overall?
Recon is still very difficult to use efficiently, even moreso with the movement calculations. I've stuck with one 223+ (4 spot) with spotting for almost the entire game.
Still waiting for my bonus unit transports...

Incoming '42 end core..

On equal experience terms (eg 2 stars for all aircraft involved), the Bf 109 F-4 and the Bf 109 G-2 produce the same results versus a Soviet La-5.
But their stats lead to different results when combined with asymmetrical boni (or mali).

Eg when a 3 star Bf 109 F-4 fights a 2 star La-5, it takes less damage than a 3 star Bf 109 G-2 would.
But when a 1 star Bf 109 F-4 fights a 2 star La-5, it takes more damage than a 1 star Bf 109 G-2 would.
The F-4 is better if you have an experience advantage, the G-2 is better when the enemy has an experience advantage (which is more relevant for Battlefield Europe).

The G-4 is already superior to the F-4, when fighting the La-5 on equal terms.
But very good crews (experience, heroes, typical for the grand campaign) will still be able to get better results from the F-4 than the G-4.


Interesting that recons are seen so differently.
Goose_2 can't get enough of them, even if they are rather squishy now.

Sorry about those bonus SE transports.
If I remember correctly, I removed them when I introduced more inf nations and unit classes for the bonus SE lineup (like towed AT, tank destroyers and now even recon and SPAA).

[Locarnus]

Again, I don't think range matters as much compared to vanilla here.

I find the range heroes really useful, especially to make those range 1 units more bearable. Especially the thin skinned Wurfrahmen becomes really good with range 2, either with a range hero or with the improved 43 version.
And as thejf said below, the the SU-76M has range 3 as well.

I really like that you bring some rarely seen campaign units into play.
Like the railway guns, Gustav and 28cm K5, as well as a pure scout plane!
Or the italian infs for sacrificial air transports. So much more gameplay variety compared to unmodded PzC1 grand campaign playthroughs.

Infantry: [...]
I will probably just grab a grenadier in '43 and maybe a paratroop if I get an defense + initiative infantry.

A Grenadier with SdKfz 250 fast halftrack would be great. Richard Martin and Soren found those infantry halftracks with guns also great for farming, eg enemy Katyushas (in the unmodded game, but should work out here as well).
Not as powerful as anything with Oleh Dir, but the high defense value on the Grenadier makes it a very resilient soft target, even in oper terrain (since enemy soft attack does not improve as much as hard attack).

The paratrooper can be a real monster unit for city fights, due to infantry class initiative not being affected by the close terrain ini cap. They are balanced by the problematic ground defense value and the frequent resupplies (due to the low ammo count).

Tanks: [...]
The + 6 defense KV-1C was kind of a joke but still has only lost one strength point in about 4 maps with no overstrength, definitely super value for funneling enemy units. The T-34 has underperformed.

Yep, having high defense "cornerstones" for ground control makes the enemy hordes so much more bearable.
And a +6 defense on a KV-1 can carry such a corner beyond 43 (with the final KV-85 update in autumn 43), even though the line is past its prime time. Might even be enough of a bonus to consider the usually underwhelming KV-1S (with normal KV-1 turret on captured german version).
Also agree on the T-34. 6 wide-track movement points are nice for specific scenarios, but otherwise the design works more for horde tactics, rather than elite cores. The 44 update to T-34-85 makes it decent (better gun, and 3 man turret removes the rof penalty), but also comes rather late.
I still like to keep those 3 captured Soviet units for flavor.

No Tiger P from the last gc 42 east scenario onwards?

AT: I gave up on marders.
[...]
Unsure what I am moving to SP AT in '43 and onwards. However, the towed slots are diminishing extremely fast. I took a peek and I think the 8.8 PaK is the only one worth grabbing moving forward, and of course SP ART vulnerability is always an issue.

Understandable. Marders are glass cannons and thus hit and miss. They have their place as a stop-gap measure, especially for Battlefield Europe and very tight prestige runs like Goose_2 is doing.
Imho having one as a bonus SE unit is ok as well (especially if you have a surplus of bonus SE movement heroes), but there are now better alternatives for the normal core units.

Similarly for the towed AT guns. A roughly 7.5cm towed AT gun makes sense for bonus SE with movement hero.
While the long 8.8cm guns are such a major capability increase for the normal core units.
I would recommend the 8.8cm Pak, as well as the 8.8cm Flak 41 (unfortunately that has no fitting graphic, but it has the long 8.8 stats).

Artillery: [...]
The wuhrframen has been great occasionally but very hard to use in defense. Artillery recon is extremely underwhelming, as it doesn't have recon move in that mode. I am not sure the Su-122 was a great idea. It has only 8 ROF but does have 15 armor for protected advances. I am not sure when I get to upgrade into it myself....I think I will toss it.

The presence of railway arties sure change the requirements for the other arties.
Imho the early Wurfrahmen becomes much more useful with a range hero. But in 43 the improved rockets are available for the Wurfrahmen anyway (range 2). Though a late Wurfrahmen with range hero (resulting in range 3) might be enough to keep it safer from enemy attacks, since it is still the most squishy german self propelled arty.
Often overlooked is the Panzerwerfer. Yeah, the attack stats are not great, but it has high rate of fire, thus being able to really multiplay the usefulness of high attack heroes. Not the best for kills, but surprisingly good at suppression. And the armor is ok, when the relatively low price is taken into account.

AA: I desperately lack a 4th anti-air. It may be an 88 in the backfield if any of my 4 star artillery in training get a bad hero. The italian truck has been great so far, but again, SP ART bait coming up, and I'm not so sure high end level bombers won't straight up attack it.

Yep, towed 8.8cm Flak is necessary. With the upcoming 8.8cm Flak 41, it also is a really good dual purpose unit again, even vs improved Soviet tanks.
With some of the unit ID switcheroos for the soviet airforce, I think enemy strat bombers are even more rare than they were before. But of course the AA experience normalization and the Battlefield Europe AA rebalancing on top of that did limit your Flak power a lot. At least the long 8.8cm Flak 41 is now useful in the ground attack role until the end (especially with movement hero), to compensate those AA issues a bit.

Air: I've relegated the gift fighter heroes to level bombers. I think the goal is to bump them up at 475 experience as soon as possible, playing defensively, and convert to the newest fighters. Since I've only gotten defense heroes mainly, I don't know how much I want to invest in the air force. Full experience strats I feel are probably enough, especially given the decreased ROF of IS-1/2s. Rudel on the Ju-88 fighter has been a mixed bag. He can fighter trap VERY well still in that role but cannot attack with his initiative, so he's still relegated to bombing in fighter mode anyway. I think I should suck up the 500 and swap to a high initiative fighter. Recon rudel has been surprisingly useful. Three recon units -- Kerscher, safe to advance with 4 spotting, 5 spotting 223+ for the roads, and recon rudel along known safe passages, e.g., next to a river, to avoid enemy AA, has generally been enough. I can't stress enough that fully knowing the maps is a really big advantage and allows you that extra space without recon.

Imho with those named campaign superheroes, there are some really great but costly options for your aircraft.
1. Lent with his massive ini bonus would fit very well for a FockeWulf 190 A-5 fighter. It would turn their ini weakness into a strength while still benefiting from their much better air attack values compared to the Bf 109s.
2. Yep, Rudel is the big decision. For directly attacking enemy fighters, he would have to convert to the highest available initiative, like currently Bf 109 F-4 and then F-4+. But that would reduce his usefulness as a ground attacker against those Soviet armor hordes.
Or go full ground attack and purchase him the Hs 129, since its unique 11 rof on aircraft is the best multiplier for those absurd attack boni.
The fighter bomber line of the Fw 190 would be a jack of all, master of none until the late 1944 Fw 190 Ds with their good initiative.
3. Nowotny and Kittel face similar issues with their defense debuffs. Imho they need the Bf 109 ini advantage to protect themselves when performing fighter duty.
4. While Bar can also make the Fw 190 F or G fighter bomber work.
5. I like the scout plane for Recon Rudel due to it being rarely seen in the Grand Campaign.
Though if you are willing to give up 1 spotting in return for considerable damage output, I can recommend the Ju 88 fighter bomber variants (since those have 3 base spotting now). Their advantage over the Bf 110 is, that you can cheaply upgrade to a tac/strat bomber variant, if you want to farm some experience in between. Or just need another strat bomber for a specific scenario.

[Locarnus]

Starting core for GC43e3 at 41k prestige. @Locarnus: I've been using the German unit class library extensively, but in preparing for the current mission I found some errors. The StuH 42 is labeled as class-based artillery, but instead it is in the leFH group. Also the artillery mode of the SdKfz 233 is not mentioned and the 10.5 sK 18 is missing from the sFH group.

Thank you, I'll fix those for the next update!
The library had been falling a bit to the side at some point, but I'll try to bring it up to an ok level now that I know it is being used.
It might be more manageable for the movement table than the equipment file, simply because movement is much less worked on.
Perhaps I can publish the equipment file already in libre office (open source) table format with some basic settings. Though I would not be able to update such a file for every Addon update.

Class........Unit...............Transport.......Hero.......Kills.....XP......Upgrade
SE.........Standard Infantry.......................1D-1I.......1111...413
SE...........7.62 Pak 36 (r)..........RSO...........1M.........602....403
SE...........Kavallerie 42..........................1A-1S........800....393
SE..............Marder I...............................1D.........273....335
SE...........SdKfz 10/4+.............................1A..........402....394
SE...........7.62 FK 36 (r)...........UE (f).......................30.....105

The bruckenpioniere was no longer competitive as an infantry but has been great as a towed AT. Flak is OK but needs attack heroes. Decided to make the latest SE unit an AT, so far it has been useful cannon fodder in open ground.

Goose_2 likes to use the Flakpanzer I and the Semovente 47/32 due to their recon move when in ground attack mode, though thats not everyones cup of tea. That small Semovente also has 2 movement in camo mode, but of course has otherwise very low stats.
Bonus SE are just very limited in their capability with Addon.

INF............Grenadiere.........SdKfz 250/1...1A-1A........830.....378
INF..............Pioniere..............L3000........1I-1M........898.....372
INF..........Wehrmacht '42..........L3000.........3D..........775......402
INF.......Fallschirmjager '42.......................1A-1A.......768......401
INF.........Gebirgsjager '42 ..........................1S.........679......409
INF..............Jager '42............................3D-2D........662.....403
INF.........Kradschutzen '42........................1S-1S........767.....416

Really pleased so far with their ability to soak up damage but we'll see how they hold up against higher SA tanks. No major plans with them other then getting them all to 4 star 2 heroes

Looks like a well rounded inf lineup for this time.
The Kettenkrad can be a really decent transport eg for Jäger and Gebirgsjäger, since it has alpine movement type with 5 movement points and even the para trait (though due to PzC game engine limitations, the Fallschirmjäger do not get an air start when they have the Kettenkrad). Of course Jäger and Gebirgsjäger are already quite mobile, so I would perhaps only consider it on one of them.

TA.............Pz III M................................3D-1D........786.....373 -> Panther in '44?
TA.............Pz IV F2.................................1I...........557.....347 -> Remain in Pz IV?
TA.............Pz IV G+................................1M..........834.....395 -> 10.5 sK 18 via Hummel?
TA.............StuG III G................................2D..........596.....380
TA.............Tiger P..................................1M...........507.....354 -> Elefant
TA.............T34-43 (r)..............................3A...........759.....364 -> ?
TA.............Tiger I.................................3A-2D.........554....388
TA.............KV 1C (r)................................1A...........796.....367 -> ?
TA.............Marder 3H...............................1I...........717.....374 -> ?
TA.............StuG III F/8..............................2A..........975.....376 -> StuH 42
TA.............BuFla.....................................3D..........734.....384 -> Panther
TA.............7.5 Pak 40...............RSO...........1M...........566.....378 -> 8.8 Pak 43

One of the big question categories. The T34 has been immune to Soviet attacks thanks to that 3A hero, so think I will leave him and the KV be to see what second hero they get. The StuG III F/8 and Pz IV G+ will be switched to try to farm range heroes. All high DEF heroes will become Panthers to try and make those proper frontline units.
The Tiger 1 was formerly a Flakpanzer 1, it just received that 3A hero.

Hm, Pz III M could be interesting as a Pz III Flammpanzer, at least for an experimental few scenarios.
Since the tank class is ini capped in close terrain, those def heroes would protect it from the enemy infantry first strike, and then it could mop them up with its high rof and military engineer trait.
Of course enemy infantry might not be your main problem at this time, but you can always make it a Panther later on when more Panthers are available.

I like to keep the 3 Soviet captured unit lines around for flavor. KV, T-34 and SU, not great not terrible.
All three still have upgrade options later on (KV-85, T-34-85, as well as underwhelming SU-85 and decent SU-100).

Marder III can be cheaply upgraded to Grille and is then in sIG arty upgrade family, if you want to train that unit up in terms of experience.

BuFla is in the special 8.8cm upgrade family, with the Nashorn being an upgrade bridge to the Panzer IV chassis.
Unfortunately the Nashorn itself is like an upgunned Marder (or an improved, full strength BuFla), so rather situational for that price tag. Thus I guess the Panther is the better choice.

REC...........SdKfz 233................................1S............420.....429
REC..........Pz II Luchs+...............................1S............399.....423
AA............Flakpanzer 1.............................2A-1S........831.....341
AA.............SdKfz 7/2................................2A............444.....381
AA.............SdKfz 7/1................................1D............602.....405 -> Tank?
AA.............8.8 Flak 36..............................1A-1M........955.....362 -> 8.8 Flak 41

Grouped these together as their setup is pretty much final. The Flak 1 was upgraded from a B2 Flamm and the 8.8 from a Pz IV.

SdKfz 7/1 could also use the BuFla -> Nashorn (Panzer IV chassis) route if you want to trade time for prestige saved. Though I'm also not sure where it would go. Second hero might decide where it would fit best.

ART.............15 sFH 18.............SdKfz 7..........1M...........394.....431
ART..............17 K 18...............SdKfz 8..........1S............344.....416
ART............21 Nblwf 42...........Maultier..........1R...........357......443
ART...........105mm mle 1913 (f)..Opel Blitz........1A...........469......447
ART..............10.5 sK 18............SdKfz 7..........1S...........304......439 -> Pz IV G+ via Hummel?
ART.............10.5 GebH 40........Kettenkrad.......1A...........306.....443
ART.............10.5 leFH 18M.......Maultier...........1M...........581.....436
ART..............StuG 3E..................................1R............455.....425 -> sIG33 assault gun
ART..............Bison 2...................................2A............618.....375 -> Wespe?
ART...........10.5 leFH B2 (f)..........................................211......421 -> StuG III F/8 via StuH42
ART..............Lorraine GW..............................1I...........356......389 -> Tank?
ART..............SU 122 (r)..............................................112......297

The second big question category. Lots of transfer option, I think a lot will depend on the second heroes farmed in the next few missions.

ART..............10.5 sK 18............SdKfz 7..........1S...........304......439 -> Pz IV G+ via Hummel?
That could be a good route for that spotting hero, since there is a final, early 1944 Pz IV model with 3 spotting but only 9 rof.

As I wrote in the post above for eskuche lineup, the Panzerwerfer is an often overlooked option for arty class.
The Lorraine GW could become a Brummbär for some time (from 43e4 onwards, both are in sIG arty upgrade family). Brummbär is a surprisingly versatile frontline dual purpose unit, due to its heavy armor and good firepower.

FIG..............Bf 109 G-2................................3A...........438......369 -> Bf 109 G-6
FIG..............Bf 109 G-4................................1A...........421......354
FIG..............Bf 109 F-2.................................1A...........380......376
FIG..............Bf 109 F-4+................................1A...........402......377
FIG..............Fw 190 A-5................................1A...........385......349
FIG..............Fw 190 A-3................................1A...........346......333
TAC..............HS 129 B-2................................1A...........517......418
TAC..............JU 87 D-3.................................2D...........247.......345
TAC..............Bf 110 G-2................................1D...........462.......406
TAC..............Bf 110 F-2.................................1S...........318.......337
TAC..............JU 88 C-6+................................1A...........431.......406
STR...............Do 217 E-2.............................................144.......361
STR..............He 111 H-16...............................1D..........207.......425
STR...............JU 88 A-4...............................................201.......450

Not much to say here with such a one-sided hero pool. Just working to get to 4 stars and second hero's.

I guess you are playing the aircraft aspect on very hard mode!

No named campaign super heroes.
Truely terrifying random hero rng.
No Italians to step into the 43/44 capability gap.

That looks really rough. I have no sweeping ideas to deal with that, only some minor options.

The Bf 110 with spotting hero could cheaply upgrade to the night fighter line (Bf 110 F-4 and then G-4), to synergize with their higher base spotting value of 3.

Your second Fw 190 is able to cheaply upgrade to the Fw 190 F and G fighter bomber line. Where it can better bomb ground targets while still having ok stats in fighter mode.

Maybe cheaply switch your Ju 88 A-4 with your Ju 88 C-6 when they are both in tac bomber mode, once the A-4 hits the 475 experience cap for 43. So that it can get some kills and hopefully a decent hero.

Do 217 E-2 can be upgraded to Do 217 K.

Seems like the air war is going to get really hard with that hero rng!

[Locarnus]

Oh, I forgot:
I often use the "Ctrl + Alt + Shift + C" console and then the "endscn 0" cheat to get that neat new units window for the upgrade options of the scenario after the current one.

And another thing I forgot:
Goose_2 plans with 4 big "cornerstone" tank units for the first Kursk scenario (43e4).
1 Tiger H
1 Tiger P
1 Ferdinand
1 Panther

Both the Tiger P and the Ferdinand only have 8 normal strength, but they both have good defense values already.
And giving those normally understrength units a bit of overstrength can be unusually cost efficient.
Because the first overstrength point makes the unit 1/8th better instead of only 1/10 like on normal 10 strength units.


@Eskuche has less of a problem in that regard due to having a KV-1 with super defenisve hero boni.

[eskuche]

Thanks for the line by line. I surely don't have the patience to truncate quotes like that
A few thoughts from the bottom up...
1. In an old old playthrough I had a 7 defense artillery that was an 11-12 strength brummbar that lasted until Berlin redux, so it can definitely function as such.
2. Oof on the air there thejs though I am playing sparse air most missions as well. As the game becomes more defensive, the less important aircraft become, and besides, their cost doesn't increase too much (relatively versus tanks).
3. Playstyle might be different re: how much frontline is needed. I tend to scatter just a few in strategic positions then fill in the gaps with low defense mobile artillery, surrender the enemy front line, then move up to re-establish a front line. This mitigates somewhat the need for range heroes specifically converting 1 range things to 2 range, as I will almost try to guarantee that they will not be frontline after the turn is over.
4. I saw also somewhere else that one of those persons really likes farming katyushas with 1 defense. I don't quite understand why that's better than conscripts (since overstrength units will risk killing it in one shot and also much more likely to take return fire damage, no?).
5. I caved and converted one movement towed AT to an 8.8. They were just taking too much damage from KVs straight attacking, though that may be a Tatsinskaya 3-star special case. I don't like tigers on snow maps, especially defensive ones where they may randomly take damage in either case 1) where they are parked next to an enemy unit that doesn't see my defensive artillery or 2) during "ambushes" where initiative is irrelevant in snow.

[goose_2]

I love all this discussion on this great mod. I look forward to reading through it over the course of this week in office.

I am popping on to give Locarnus a quick update on the playthrough I attempted after the broadcast yesterday.

I tried another 2nd recording for the middle part of Belgorod, and am super glad I did.

No hero for Black Vulture yet, but he is so ready to pop.
No overstrength damage on any of my units this time, and much, much better positioning going into the final part of the map.

Confident that I will be able to acquire DV and bonus unit.

Do not get me wrong however, I have taken damage on various units, just not overstrength and I am ok with taking damage on units that are getting good exercise. It will make for a fun show.

Thanks for pushing me to try again, it made all of the difference.

I should be able to send you the results before the next Sunday broadcast.

[goose_2]

Tanks: I have surprisingly made do with a very sparse front line. Towed AT partially cover this role as I will describe later but do lack in experience gain since they don't always spring their ambushes. The mainstay is my two named hero StuG III Fs and Kerscher on the strongest Pz IV. The + 6 defense KV-1C was kind of a joke but still has only lost one strength point in about 4 maps with no overstrength, definitely super value for funneling enemy units. The T-34 has underperformed. I try to have 2 fronts with one MBT and surrounding hexes baited with the StuGs and the towed AT.

I am here in my catching up and find this part fascinating to hear as I am having a heck of a time training my tanks, but switching from a 4 starred arty is wise, but It has to be that +6 def hero on your KV, because I have +2 def on my Kv, 275 exp, but they still will blast him as of Kharkov 43, as you will see on Sunday and Friday next week.

[goose_2]

AT: I gave up on marders. Any lucky roll decimates them and even at their cheap prestige it (mentally) wasn't worth it. Plus they will take more and more SP artillery fire in the coing years. The towed AT at least skips the initial artillery strike phase in the AI turn, and they are holding up very well against 1-2 star enemy infantry for now. They get to take care of the T-70s + other recon as well at the BT-7s with no support and the T34s with 1-2 artillery support. Unsure what I am moving to SP AT in '43 and onwards. However, the towed slots are diminishing extremely fast. I took a peek and I think the 8.8 PaK is the only one worth grabbing moving forward, and of course SP ART vulnerability is always an issue.

Interesting to see this as I am still attempting to make them work, but you see in Kharkov how they reach their limits as the enemy is just not afraid of them even if they are os,ed with arty behind them. I am thinking that since they have 3 stars they might make sense for my new Panther and Elephant upgrades coming in Kursk, not sure though.

[eskuche]

I am here in my catching up and find this part fascinating to hear as I am having a heck of a time training my tanks, but switching from a 4 starred arty is wise, but It has to be that +6 def hero on your KV, because I have +2 def on my Kv, 275 exp, but they still will blast him as of Kharkov 43, as you will see on Sunday and Friday next week.

I generally try to avoid getting attacked by enemy tanks as much as humanly possible. The ways I do this are to recon in and out on a victory hex, baiting tanks to run around to try to flank an artillery that's actually protected, and, worst case scenario, park a very strong defensive unit up front to hold in place until I can get art/bombers on them.

Edit: and my favorite, having an aux or green infantry sitting in close terrain to bite off 2-4 strength points in return for 25 prestige repair cost.

[thejf]

I generally try to avoid getting attacked by enemy tanks as much as humanly possible. The ways I do this are to recon in and out on a victory hex, baiting tanks to run around to try to flank an artillery that's actually protected, and, worst case scenario, park a very strong defensive unit up front to hold in place until I can get art/bombers on them.

Edit: and my favorite, having an aux or green infantry sitting in close terrain to bite off 2-4 strength points in return for 25 prestige repair cost.

I'd like to add one of my favorite tactics here: setting up traps with camo AT's. The StuG's are my favorite. Set some up on your front line, switch to AT mode, ambush some tanks, eliminate all units touching your AT's next turn to camo your AT's again and watch the AI run into the same ambush again and again. In Belgorod I think I ambushed something like 10 units near the central bridge this way.

1. In an old old playthrough I had a 7 defense artillery that was an 11-12 strength brummbar that lasted until Berlin redux, so it can definitely function as such.
2. Oof on the air there thejs though I am playing sparse air most missions as well. As the game becomes more defensive, the less important aircraft become, and besides, their cost doesn't increase too much (relatively versus tanks).
3. Playstyle might be different re: how much frontline is needed. I tend to scatter just a few in strategic positions then fill in the gaps with low defense mobile artillery, surrender the enemy front line, then move up to re-establish a front line. This mitigates somewhat the need for range heroes specifically converting 1 range things to 2 range, as I will almost try to guarantee that they will not be frontline after the turn is over.
4. I saw also somewhere else that one of those persons really likes farming katyushas with 1 defense. I don't quite understand why that's better than conscripts (since overstrength units will risk killing it in one shot and also much more likely to take return fire damage, no?).
5. I caved and converted one movement towed AT to an 8.8. They were just taking too much damage from KVs straight attacking, though that may be a Tatsinskaya 3-star special case. I don't like tigers on snow maps, especially defensive ones where they may randomly take damage in either case 1) where they are parked next to an enemy unit that doesn't see my defensive artillery or 2) during "ambushes" where initiative is irrelevant in snow.

Thankfully the RNG gods have shown some mercy on me and provided me with a +3D hero on my JU88-A4
Which compensates the useless +1D hero on my KV
Good point on front line setup, I've not done this enough. Have now seen the massive list of new units in 43e4 (I only use the library, don't check the equipment file) and it looks like only the sIG33 is range 1. So that gives another reason why less range heroes are needed then I originally thought.
I am one of those people who like to farm Katyusha's, but mostly as cheap kills for my air force
Those attacks on AT's are a Tatsinskaya thing, 7,5 cm AT's are still holding up for me as the number of KV's encountered has been limited.

Oh, I forgot:
I often use the "Ctrl + Alt + Shift + C" console and then the "endscn 0" cheat to get that neat new units window for the upgrade options of the scenario after the current one.

And another thing I forgot:
Goose_2 plans with 4 big "cornerstone" tank units for the first Kursk scenario (43e4).
1 Tiger H
1 Tiger P
1 Ferdinand
1 Panther

Great point on popping up the unit window again, especially now in 43e4!
I've made the (foolish?) decision not to allow myself 2 versions of the Tiger P for historical reasons. Based on the stats I'm probably going to stick with the Tiger P, the Ferdinand looks like it will need constant artillery cover with that pitiful SA.

And thanks for the quick and detailed review of my core. Good to know that more upgrades of the capturables are incoming, makes it useful to keep them. The Nashorn's defence is better then I expected, but I still decided to go for the Panther. Artillery is a real tough one now that I have seen the full lineup. Will defintely use the Brummbar and am considering the Panzerwerfer. Not liking the low ammo count though.

Regarding the library: I find it to be a great tool to plan ahead for upgrades!
BTW, have another small finding: the Wespe unit does not change its gun elevation between Tank and Artillery mode. I've gotten so used to using that for visual reference of artillery switch units that I messed this one up badly a few times...

[goose_2]

INF............Grenadiere.........SdKfz 250/1...1A-1A........830.....378
INF..............Pioniere..............L3000........1I-1M........898.....372
INF..........Wehrmacht '42..........L3000.........3D..........775......402
INF.......Fallschirmjager '42.......................1A-1A.......768......401
INF.........Gebirgsjager '42 ..........................1S.........679......409
INF..............Jager '42............................3D-2D........662.....403
INF.........Kradschutzen '42........................1S-1S........767.....416
Really pleased so far with their ability to soak up damage but we'll see how they hold up against higher SA tanks. No major plans with them other then getting them all to 4 star 2 heroes

How are you grinding your inf so well? I have not gotten near the number of kills for my various infantry units. I am jealous, and envious. Share your secrets

[goose_2]

ART.............15 sFH 18.............SdKfz 7..........1M...........394.....431
ART..............17 K 18...............SdKfz 8..........1S............344.....416
ART............21 Nblwf 42...........Maultier..........1R...........357......443
ART...........105mm mle 1913 (f)..Opel Blitz........1A...........469......447
ART..............10.5 sK 18............SdKfz 7..........1S...........304......439 -> Pz IV G+ via Hummel?
ART.............10.5 GebH 40........Kettenkrad.......1A...........306.....443
ART.............10.5 leFH 18M.......Maultier...........1M...........581.....436
ART..............StuG 3E..................................1R............455.....425 -> sIG33 assault gun
ART..............Bison 2...................................2A............618.....375 -> Wespe?
ART...........10.5 leFH B2 (f)..........................................211......421 -> StuG III F/8 via StuH42
ART..............Lorraine GW..............................1I...........356......389 -> Tank?
ART..............SU 122 (r)..............................................112......297

The second big question category. Lots of transfer option, I think a lot will depend on the second heroes farmed in the next few missions.

FIG..............Bf 109 G-2................................3A...........438......369 -> Bf 109 G-6
FIG..............Bf 109 G-4................................1A...........421......354
FIG..............Bf 109 F-2.................................1A...........380......376
FIG..............Bf 109 F-4+................................1A...........402......377
FIG..............Fw 190 A-5................................1A...........385......349
FIG..............Fw 190 A-3................................1A...........346......333
TAC..............HS 129 B-2................................1A...........517......418
TAC..............JU 87 D-3.................................2D...........247.......345
TAC..............Bf 110 G-2................................1D...........462.......406
TAC..............Bf 110 F-2.................................1S...........318.......337
TAC..............JU 88 C-6+................................1A...........431.......406
STR...............Do 217 E-2.............................................144.......361
STR..............He 111 H-16...............................1D..........207.......425
STR...............JU 88 A-4...............................................201.......450

Not much to say here with such a one-sided hero pool. Just working to get to 4 stars and second hero's.

Ah maybe the more kills for inf are found here, my artillery, for the most part, have much greater kills than yours appear to have. I think that will benefit me later as arty will get fewer and fewer kills as their units get stronger, while the infantry tears them up in close terrain, so hoping my infantry catches up then. But we will see.

I too am struggling greatly getting kills for my air force. My Bombers are higher than my Fighters, but the grind for fighters is crazy hard. I do not think I have a single fighter with 500 kills, and that is not good for either of us.

[Locarnus]

4. I saw also somewhere else that one of those persons really likes farming katyushas with 1 defense. I don't quite understand why that's better than conscripts (since overstrength units will risk killing it in one shot and also much more likely to take return fire damage, no?).

Katyushas have high attack values (that they can't use when suppressed or out of ammo), but low defense values (making them easy to kill).
Both combined are great for the experience gain formula:
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewto ... 06#p606706

Do not get me wrong however, I have taken damage on various units, just not overstrength and I am ok with taking damage on units that are getting good exercise. It will make for a fun show.

Great to hear!
Yep, overstrength damage is the main cost driver, avoiding that makes all the difference.

Interesting to see this as I am still attempting to make them work, but you see in Kharkov how they reach their limits as the enemy is just not afraid of them even if they are os,ed with arty behind them. I am thinking that since they have 3 stars they might make sense for my new Panther and Elephant upgrades coming in Kursk, not sure though.

Imho every experience level counts now for the big cornerstone units, since they won't earn much of experience anymore. Especially with your 25% player experience setting.
Imho 4 star arties are required for conversion and the other units need to train up as arty before they can be considered for "final" big tank stations.

Thankfully the RNG gods have shown some mercy on me and provided me with a +3D hero on my JU88-A4
Which compensates the useless +1D hero on my KV
Good point on front line setup, I've not done this enough. Have now seen the massive list of new units in 43e4 (I only use the library, don't check the equipment file) and it looks like only the sIG33 is range 1. So that gives another reason why less range heroes are needed then I originally thought.

Good to see a good hero for your airforce, you will need those.
Yep, the StuIG on Panzer III chassis had limited gun elevation, so limited range. At least they managed to convert those within 2 weeks or so, thus being one of the few vehicle lessons learned from Stalingrad, that actually managed to still participate in Stalingrad.

Great point on popping up the unit window again, especially now in 43e4!
I've made the (foolish?) decision not to allow myself 2 versions of the Tiger P for historical reasons. Based on the stats I'm probably going to stick with the Tiger P, the Ferdinand looks like it will need constant artillery cover with that pitiful SA.

And thanks for the quick and detailed review of my core. Good to know that more upgrades of the capturables are incoming, makes it useful to keep them. The Nashorn's defence is better then I expected, but I still decided to go for the Panther. Artillery is a real tough one now that I have seen the full lineup. Will defintely use the Brummbar and am considering the Panzerwerfer. Not liking the low ammo count though.

A Soviet Guards 43 unit with 2 stars and 12 strength is expected to have 9 shots with a 5% kill chance each, when attacking a Ferdinand with 3 stars and 8 strength in terrain without ini cap.
So 9*5% = 0.45 which just barely shows up as 0 expected kills (iirc 0.5 is the threshold for showing 1 expted kill).
Thus as long as the Ferdi can avoid being attacked in close terrain, it should be mostly ok.
And the Ferdi is so much better than the Tiger P+ against enemy tanks in the open.
I recommend giving it a try, since it costs very little to go back to the Tiger P if the Ferdi is not to your liking.

The Panzerwerfer is probably more situational than the Wurfrahmen for attacking, but becomes much better with eg +2 or +3 attack hero bonus.

Regarding the library: I find it to be a great tool to plan ahead for upgrades!
BTW, have another small finding: the Wespe unit does not change its gun elevation between Tank and Artillery mode. I've gotten so used to using that for visual reference of artillery switch units that I messed this one up badly a few times...

Ah, yeah, some units still have not the proper graphics.
I'll try to find a Wespe icon set that has the gun in both positions.

I'm working on bringing the library up to date. Several upgrade options missing there.
Also doing a library page for the bonus SE units.
The dates are for the next 2025-04 update, there were some minor changes.

A major change will be the inclusion of the Kübelwagen cross class upgrade option.
Another major addition will be that horse drawn 7.5cm arty from 1943 onwards, so that late additions to the bonus SE pool can gain at least some experience.

[eskuche]

This is interesting but I think you have it misinterpreted partially. Katyushas have a very low defense value (defenderdefense) so that means they are an easy target to hit, so the AttBonus is lower. I did not know there was a danger factor to the attack, however. That does mean the DefBonus value will be very good for soft targets attacking the katyusha if they have enough initiative to avoid return fire.

Also interesting in that this means that air units will almost always have a poor DefBonus number, since DefenderAttack is (should be, unless you risk damage) zero. Also extends the super important value of initative -- if you have medium favorability attacks but high enough initiative to prevent damage, you can get the most value here.

Overall though, in the mod with class switching, farming experience on artillery with high ROF (11-12) against things with ~4-6 more defense than attack is I think the most optimal, e.g., infantry entrenched in close terrain. Kills are best against conscripts.

edit going hard into the math: the GebG line look great for this purpose actually, and may explain why they level up so quickly for me. 4 soft attack and 4 soft defense means they're getting 14 bonus from DefBonus when attacking in AT form against a full strength katyusha and 2 bonus from AttBonus to max out at 16 and 15 being the limit. The trick now that I see the formulas is that hitting suppressed points takes away the danger aspect of DefBonus, so something pretty optimal might be turn 1 attack for 8-9 strength points in anti-tank mode. Turn 2, the katyusha repairs with 9 suppressed points. You then switch to artillery mode to attack and get suppression XP (artillery does not get DefBonus anyway, so the suppression is irrelevant). You move out of sight to 3 range and let them repair 1-2 points and rinse and repeat. Alternative method with 2 units: turn 2 poke the highly suppressed repaired unit with a very low strength unit (2-3 strength recon or something) to remove suppression, then repeat the AT attack.

This means that very ideally getting 6 (or so) x 15 xp = 120 raw XP a turn with a GebG is very very doable with the katyushas. Attacking conscripts will instead give kills x 7 xp so almost comparable efficiency with experience, and there are more strength points to hit. The rub is that you lose 2 xp points per strength point per additional attacker star unless, I suppose, you abuse close defense against infantry targets.

Going into the amount of experience needed per star based on multipliers, it looks like 100, 200, 400, ~800, ~1700, so if you can get a very high star katyusha and follow the method above, you would theoretically be able to grind out possibly half of the 4-to-5 stars level in a map.

Edit 2: going REALLY hard on the math. Here is an estimated experience per indirect attack assuming ROF of 10 . Δ means AttackerAttack - DefenderDefense. Miss/Suppress/Kills from the damage formula. The best returns of experience is between 0 and 9 (aka target has 9 more defense than your attack). The best damage per xp gained is at exact parity between attack and defense, so something like a 7.5 cm fK ROF11 (soft attack 7 + exp.) against non-conscript soviet infantry with GD 7 + 2/entrenchment level. The pure experience farming against a reliable target (that doesn't die), then, would be something like 3 artillery hitting one of these infantry in an entrenching position.

Code: Select all

XP	Δ	Miss/Sup/Kill	XP Bonus (6-Δ)
9	24	10	51	39	1
9	23	10	52	38	1
9	22	10	53	37	1
9	21	10	54	36	1
9	20	10	54	36	1
9	19	10	55	35	1
9	18	10	56	34	1
9	17	10	57	33	1
9	16	10	58	32	1
9	15	10	59	31	1
9	14	10	60	30	1
8.8	13	12	59	29	1
8.6	12	14	59	27	1
8.4	11	16	58	26	1
8.2	10	18	58	24	1
8	9	20	57	23	1
7.8	8	22	57	21	1
7.6	7	24	56	20	1
7.4	6	26	55	19	1
7.2	5	28	54	18	1
14	4	30	54	16	2
19.5	3	35	51	14	3
24	2	40	47	13	4
27.5	1	45	44	11	5
30	0	50	40	10	6
31.5	-1	55	37	8	7
32	-2	60	33	7	8
31.5	-3	65	30	5	9
30	-4	70	26	4	10
30.8	-5	72	24	4	11
31.2	-6	74	23	3	12
31.2	-7	76	21	3	13
30.8	-8	78	20	2	14
30	-9	80	18	2	15
27	-10	82	17	1	15
24	-11	84	15	1	15
21	-12	86	13	1	15
18	-13	88	11	1	15
15	-14	90	9	1	15
15	-15	90	9	1	15