Anarchy charges poll . . .

[stockwellpete]

Just a very basic poll to see if it is worthwhile pursuing the idea of anarchy charges for a mod.

This was the approach used by FOG1 that did have anarchy charges . . .

Anarchy
Battle groups with the anarchy image on them may have charged without orders, may have refused to charge, or may have refused to move at all.

Shock Troops
Shock troops are all mounted lancers, heavy chariots, scythed chariots, pikemen, offensive spearmen, and impact foot. At the start of every player turn, if any of these troops types are in charge range of an enemy battle group, they have to take a complex move test if any of the following apply:
• They are also mounted shock troops and the nearest enemy battle group is in open/clear terrain.
• They are also heavy foot shock troops and the nearest enemy battle group is also foot.
• They are medium foot shock troops in open/clear terrain and the nearest enemy battle group is also foot.
If they fail the complex move test then they charge the nearest enemy battle group without orders. See hex icons and troop types for more information.

Shock troops have a bright border around their image in the 'cursor over' display to the lower left of the screen.
Player tip: The only good way to avoid lots of uncontrolled charges is to avoid moving your shock troops within charge range of the enemy until you are ready to charge the enemy.

Refusing to charge
• Light Foot need to pass a complex move test to charge any enemy other than other Light Foot.
• Light Horse need to pass a complex move test to charge any enemy other than other Light Horse and Light Foot.
• Disrupted troops need to pass a complex move test to charge.
A battle group that refuses to charge suffers anarchy and not only does it not charge, it refuses to move for the remainder of the player turn.

Out of command
Not everyone always obeys orders. Battle groups with the hand image on them are outside the range of a friendly commander, and are especially prone not to obey orders as outlined above.

And the details of the Complex Move Test are here . . .

Complex Move Test
A battle group is given a score from the virtual roll of two six sided dice and these are added together to get a base complex move test score. Then this score is modified as follows:

Test Modifier Description

+2 The battle group is within command range of an inspired commander.

+1 The battle group is within command range of a field or troop commander.

+1 The battle group is adjacent to a commander.

-2 The battle group is currently fragmented or severely disordered.

-1 The battle group is currently disrupted or disordered

[TheGrayMouser]

Hey Pete, I’m for anarchy but the way you are describing it is not exactly how it was in Fog1.

First, a unit only tested not to anarchy if you tried to move it in a way that wasn’t charging an enemy, then it would test. At the end of the turn it would then test any unit that you didn’t move.

Non shock troop needed to test to charge if they were disordered. No test needed for shock troops.

Troops with no impact weapon always needed to test, even for rear charges.

[stockwellpete]

Hey Pete, I’m for anarchy but the way you are describing it is not exactly how it was in Fog1.

First, a unit only tested not to anarchy if you tried to move it in a way that wasn’t charging an enemy, then it would test. At the end of the turn it would then test any unit that you didn’t move.

Non shock troop needed to test to charge if they were disordered. No test needed for shock troops.

Troops with no impact weapon always needed to test, even for rear charges.

I have just lifted the text from the FOG1 game files without any alteration of it on my part. It is just meant to give an indication of how the issue was handled in the game back then.

[FrenchDude]

This mod would be absolutely fantastic, it would be my dream mod ! I like anything that brings the game closer to realism, I only play SP (for now) using both FOG2 campaigns and exported FOGE battles, a mod using these new rules would bring the immersion to a whole new level

[rbodleyscott]

This mod would be absolutely fantastic, it would be my dream mod ! I like anything that brings the game closer to realism, I only play SP (for now) using both FOG2 campaigns and exported FOGE battles, a mod using these new rules would bring the immersion to a whole new level

On a completely off topic subject: Has your taste of smell/taste come back yet? (I ask out of professional interest, as an ex-medic).

[FrenchDude]

On a completely off topic subject: Has your taste of smell/taste come back yet? (I ask out of professional interest, as an ex-medic).

Hello Richard ! Thanks for asking ! Well, I think I have recovered most of my sense of taste, but for the smell that’s another story. It has improved, but it certainly isn’t as it used to be, I think it’ll take some time.
During the first days, I couldn’t smell anything, now I’m one month and a half from the first symptoms and I can smell many different things (coffee, different sorts of spices, red wine, etc...) but I have to be focused on it and the scent is kinda weak, but it is there. Some odours still haven’t returned though (burnt food, cheese, and body odours do not exist anymore, it has advantages and inconveniences ).

The friends of mine and colleagues from the hospital who have been infected and suffer from a loss of smell/taste still haven’t entirely recovered either. The smell seems to take a longer time to recover than the taste, however, a friend recovered his smell almost entirely but has a lot of troubles tasting things, he has been infected in early April. We are both doing some sort of homemade “re-education” , following the advice of on of our senior medics.
The data and reports we have seem to show that patients affected by the coronavirus and experiencing anosmia seem to be recovering faster than patients losing their smell due to other viral diseases (such as the flu), so I hope i’ll Fully recover soon, I’d like to feel the real taste of red wine again !

[rbodleyscott]

I’d like to feel the real taste of red wine again !

Yes. That is top priority. (And I am not joking).

[stockwellpete]

I’d like to feel the real taste of red wine again !

As the WHO keeps saying, "Test, test and test". You may not have the same taste yet, but the warm fuzzy feeling will be unaffected.

[TheGrayMouser]

Hey Pete, I’m for anarchy but the way you are describing it is not exactly how it was in Fog1.

First, a unit only tested not to anarchy if you tried to move it in a way that wasn’t charging an enemy, then it would test. At the end of the turn it would then test any unit that you didn’t move.

Non shock troop needed to test to charge if they were disordered. No test needed for shock troops.

Troops with no impact weapon always needed to test, even for rear charges.

I have just lifted the text from the FOG1 game files without any alteration of it on my part. It is just meant to give an indication of how the issue was handled in the game back then.

Sure, but we all know manuals are seldom updated after patches. I just bring it up because many players hated ( especially TT players) the original rules in Fog 1 where units tested at the start of your turn without a chance to charge on your own accord... this was changed to what I noted in one of the first patches....

[TomoeGozen]

I love the sound of the anarchy rules. Adds some 'realism' I think and would make sp games more interesting and unpredictable. However I suspect it will make some armies disappear from the 'competitive' mp scene.

[TheGrayMouser]

I love the sound of the anarchy rules. Adds some 'realism' I think and would make sp games more interesting and unpredictable. However I suspect it will make some armies disappear from the 'competitive' mp scene.

Naw, no one can resist the types of troops deemed "shock troops" ie impact foot, lancers, offensive spears and pikes...

[TomoeGozen]

[Latro]

Are there no modifiers pertaining to the level of discipline? Drilled vs undrilled troops, for instance.

[TheGrayMouser]

Are there no modifiers pertaining to the level of discipline? Drilled vs undrilled troops, for instance.

In Fog1 yes, drilled or skirmishers passed a "complex move test" rolling a "6" or higher ( 2 six-siders rolled), other troops needed a "7"

[TheGrayMouser]

Are there no modifiers pertaining to the level of discipline? Drilled vs undrilled troops, for instance.

In Fog1 yes, drilled or skirmishers passed a "complex move test" rolling a "6" or higher ( 2 six-siders rolled), other troops needed a "7"

One thing not noted as well is that troops that charge without orders could burst thru friends in their way of reaching the enemy, there by disordering them (the troops burst thru not the charger)
So knights behind defensive spears or crossbowmen, not a good idea

[ianiow]

Never was a fan of the anarchy rules, most of the time it just seems idiotic and frustrating and made me enjoy the game less.

If this must happen, why not go the whole hog and give entire commands over to the AI and just pick one command for the player to control.

[stockwellpete]

Never was a fan of the anarchy rules, most of the time it just seems idiotic and frustrating and made me enjoy the game less.

If this must happen, why not go the whole hog and give entire commands over to the AI and just pick one command for the player to control.

This is for a mod only.

[Schweetness101]

Never was a fan of the anarchy rules, most of the time it just seems idiotic and frustrating and made me enjoy the game less.

If this must happen, why not go the whole hog and give entire commands over to the AI and just pick one command for the player to control.

you might be sort of joking/sarcastic, but while testing this mod I was thinking it would be interesting to create an even more anarchic/realistic mod where you can only move your forces forward as a group for the first few turns, and once they are within charging distance the ai takes over and you just kind of watch, with the exception of whatever units you kept in reserve (not close enough to be made to auto charge). In such a scenario the battle tactics would revolve around getting your army into the right position generally in the first place, and deploying what reserves you can afford at the right moment later, but the rest is not micromanaged.

might be terrible, might be great, but it would be interesting to try.

[stockwellpete]

One thing not noted as well is that troops that charge without orders could burst thru friends in their way of reaching the enemy, there by disordering them (the troops burst thru not the charger)
So knights behind defensive spears or crossbowmen, not a good idea

I am not sure that we would necessarily want to reproduce that aspect for FOG2. It was a bit ludicrous at times. Bursting through your own skirmishers and disordering them maybe?

[Schweetness101]

First, a unit only tested not to anarchy if you tried to move it in a way that wasn’t charging an enemy, then it would test. At the end of the turn it would then test any unit that you didn’t move.

oh so it was something that happened during your move turn? on units you ordered to move, but not with a charge move, while within charge range of an enemy? or right after during the auto resolving for units you did not move at all?

that is quite different from what I have been implementing, which involves rolling for anarchy charges in the pre-turn stage after existing melees have resolved for units within charge range of an enemy.