Upgrade-refill - Work around for Green Army

[zekius]

There is a work around for Green Army.
You are restricted to 3 uses of Elite Replacements per mission, but this is worth 3 points on the traits table.

Of course this works better with power 4 + trophy. Because this runs on prestige.

By doing this, you will actually END any use of elite replacements on the battle field.
But, you will get to keep all of the XP at the end of the mission.
This is really the only place you make a hard call. and decide if you want to do this.
In general, keeping all your XP at the end of the mission should over time averages out to more XP saved, after about 2~3 missions.
So we are playing averages and percentages.

Now... once your survive the mission, you are in the clear.
The way you work around Green Army is to "upgrade" your army.

For example, if I want to preserve 1377 XP on my pioniere, I will first "upgrade" it to a Wehr Inf. Make the choice and purchase. Back on the deployment screen, the unit is back to full health, and retains its 1377 XP, and I get refunded some prestige.
Then, since what I really want is my XP AND my Pioniere I am going to update that Wehr Inf back to a Pioniere.
And thus, you have refilled that Pioniere at the expense of prestige, but lost no XP.
This basically functions as elite replacements even though the actual Elite Replacement button is already grayed out from the unit command bar, so you can use it more than 3 times.
The more money you have of course, the more negligible this XP exchange will be.

other notables:

• By doing this, the first 3 times actually are still using your Elite Replacements allocation. But this just allow you to upgrade-refill your units beyond the 3 time limit.

• The 3 Elite Replacement you use are from the current mission. This means you will have no battlefield Elites to use.

• Since you only have one fighter type until the pick for Africa/Bararossa, prior to that you should use the Elite Replacements on fighters. Because there is no alternative to upgrade to. Do this first.

• You need a unit different than what you are currently fielding to upgrade to in order for this to work.

• You always get a refund when downshifting into an inferior unit, and pay a price when shifting back into the unit you actually use.

• You will need to double check the vehicle assignment on tow arty and AA, because the vehicle compatibility is different for a lot of them.

And there you have it. The riskiest outcome is to have Pionieres/fighter/Arty hurt in the field and need green replacements. In that case the XP is irrevocably lost. Though, you will be hard pressed to get more than 20 units worth out of your 3 Elite Replaces anyway. Upgrade-refill your units at a rate of 2 per unit, and you are breaking even with the Elite Replacements. Assuming you have to top off front line units twice during battle and support units once, burning through your Elites at the deploy screen is not that big a deal because the strength your refill is going to outpace what you can possibly get with [+*] in the field. So your army will accumulate XP, you just can't predict which unit gets to keep their XP in the upcoming mission.

[Horseman]

I don't see much point in having a work around for a negative trait. The only thing you gain is 3 more perk points... .

You can set how many perk points you get when you start a campaign, so what are you actually gaining?

Save yourself the hassle of upgrading all your forces every scenario (twice!) And just give your self 3 extra perk choices when you start the campaign.

[Duedman]

You can set how many perk points you get when you start a campaign, so what are you actually gaining?

Save yourself the hassle of upgrading all your forces every scenario (twice!) And just give your self 3 extra perk choices when you start the campaign.

Thats what I thought

But there is something in the human nature, that keeps at least the competitive people from just taking more Perk Points.
You can never tell anybody of your achievements, cuz they didnt take more points! So we game the games.

Just for the sake of this "comparability" this exploit is a good find. Since its probably easy to fix.

[Horseman]

You can set how many perk points you get when you start a campaign, so what are you actually gaining?

Save yourself the hassle of upgrading all your forces every scenario (twice!) And just give your self 3 extra perk choices when you start the campaign.

Thats what I thought

But there is something in the human nature, that keeps at least the competitive people from just taking more Perk Points.
You can never tell anybody of your achievements, cuz they didnt take more points! So we game the games.

Just for the sake of this "comparability" this exploit is a good find. Since its probably easy to fix.

Competitive or not it's pretty pointless.

Is it really anymore a brag to say "I did it by taking a negative perk but using an exploit to negate it" than it is to say "I did it but had 5 free perk points "?

I could probably mod the game to make normal replacements not impact XP for the same effect. Or edit the starting scenario to have tons of artillery and take denied artillery. And plenty of other ways of "cheating"

In single player? To be honest do whatever you enjoy, it's your game. You want bragging rights? Then do it without cheating.

[Duedman]

Competitive or not it's pretty pointless.

I agree.

In single player? To be honest do whatever you enjoy, it's your game. You want bragging rights? Then do it without cheating.

I really do think that there are a great many people who brag while having cheated because they somehow need the recognition from others. But that goes into "kitchen table psychology" (if thats something in english lol)

If u want to play "competitive single player" in this game, you need to enact house rules anyway.
With the right combinations of heroes even people without knowing base mechanics can win on Generalissimus.

[zekius]

I really do think that there are a great many people who brag while having cheated because they somehow need the recognition from others.

That is really projecting. The purpose isn't to brag, the purpose is to just put the information out there.

I am just trying to add what I can to make PC2 a "solved" game -- I don't think Civ subreddit for example, ever turns down information, even though clearly part of the audience has already come to play it as a series of doctrinal plays. You can look at the those players with pity that they have destroyed any poetic/storytelling sensibility from the game and is on a grim march to win every civ in diety, that doesn't mean they are wrong.
There will be a segment of the players that want to leverage every play to the hilt while staying within "the letter of the law" of the game.
This is for anyone who wants to stay exactly within the Traits point system and the achievement hunters, maybe they get some use out of it.

[Horseman]

I really do think that there are a great many people who brag while having cheated because they somehow need the recognition from others.

That is really projecting. The purpose isn't to brag, the purpose is to just put the information out there.

I am just trying to add what I can to make PC2 a "solved" game -- I don't think Civ subreddit for example, ever turns down information, even though clearly part of the audience has already come to play it as a series of doctrinal plays. You can look at the those players with pity that they have destroyed any poetic/storytelling sensibility from the game and is on a grim march to win every civ in diety, that doesn't mean they are wrong.
There will be a segment of the players that want to leverage every play to the hilt while staying within "the letter of the law" of the game.
This is for anyone who wants to stay exactly within the Traits point system and the achievement hunters, maybe they get some use out of it.

The thing is, it's not solving anything. You can achieve the exact same thing by giving yourself 3 extra trait points at campaign start. Also saves upgrading your entire roster every mission and then upgrading them back.

That does not stop achievements by the way. It's a game option.

[nexusno2000]

There is a work around for Green Army.
You are restricted to 3 uses of Elite Replacements per mission, but this is worth 3 points on the traits table.

Of course this works better with power 4 + trophy. Because this runs on prestige.

By doing this, you will actually END any use of elite replacements on the battle field.
But, you will get to keep all of the XP at the end of the mission.
This is really the only place you make a hard call. and decide if you want to do this.
In general, keeping all your XP at the end of the mission should over time averages out to more XP saved, after about 2~3 missions.
So we are playing averages and percentages.

Now... once your survive the mission, you are in the clear.
The way you work around Green Army is to "upgrade" your army.

For example, if I want to preserve 1377 XP on my pioniere, I will first "upgrade" it to a Wehr Inf. Make the choice and purchase. Back on the deployment screen, the unit is back to full health, and retains its 1377 XP, and I get refunded some prestige.
Then, since what I really want is my XP AND my Pioniere I am going to update that Wehr Inf back to a Pioniere.
And thus, you have refilled that Pioniere at the expense of prestige, but lost no XP.
This basically functions as elite replacements even though the actual Elite Replacement button is already grayed out from the unit command bar, so you can use it more than 3 times.
The more money you have of course, the more negligible this XP exchange will be.

other notables:

• By doing this, the first 3 times actually are still using your Elite Replacements allocation. But this just allow you to upgrade-refill your units beyond the 3 time limit.

• The 3 Elite Replacement you use are from the current mission. This means you will have no battlefield Elites to use.

• Since you only have one fighter type until the pick for Africa/Bararossa, prior to that you should use the Elite Replacements on fighters. Because there is no alternative to upgrade to. Do this first.

• You need a unit different than what you are currently fielding to upgrade to in order for this to work.

• You always get a refund when downshifting into an inferior unit, and pay a price when shifting back into the unit you actually use.

• You will need to double check the vehicle assignment on tow arty and AA, because the vehicle compatibility is different for a lot of them.

And there you have it. The riskiest outcome is to have Pionieres/fighter/Arty hurt in the field and need green replacements. In that case the XP is irrevocably lost. Though, you will be hard pressed to get more than 20 units worth out of your 3 Elite Replaces anyway. Upgrade-refill your units at a rate of 2 per unit, and you are breaking even with the Elite Replacements. Assuming you have to top off front line units twice during battle and support units once, burning through your Elites at the deploy screen is not that big a deal because the strength your refill is going to outpace what you can possibly get with [+*] in the field. So your army will accumulate XP, you just can't predict which unit gets to keep their XP in the upcoming mission.

Pretty sure this is a bug and will be crushed accordingly.

If not it's incredibly gamey.

Game isn't THAT hard.

[ErissN6]

to leverage every play to the hilt while staying within "the letter of the law" of the game.
This is for anyone who wants to stay exactly within the Traits point system and the achievement hunters, maybe they get some use out of it.

That's it. Thanks for your sharing.
With traits and mainly with heoes, this game is full of gamey possibilities, this has to be balanced as it brakes the beautifull balance of units in PC2.

[Blade0]

It is even easier than that - with the Upgrade action you can do elite replacements anywhere you can do an upgrade action. You just need to change strength to a different value and back, if the unit is not an infantry. But, this counts against the 3*elite replacements limit, so effectively you can only reinforce your troops on supply hexes, or during deployment.
I have picked this as a challenge - I hate to rely on reinforcements on the field, and consider "elite replacements" a bit unrealistic anyway.
I think this trait is not viable as it was intended - a green army would surely lose on later scenarios as "stars" give priceless benefits no equipment can offset. Not to mention that good equipment is also seriously limited by the "slots" they occupy.
I would maybe reduce the points to 2, and fix so you can do 3 "elite replacements" on top of any "upgrade" actions. But whatever.

What I see as OP is the trait "Perimeter Control". I used it so many times to walk through enemy fronts one tank a time, and attacked vulnerable support units in the back, then did 3-4-5 "Overrun" attacks with my lead munchkin prototype tank to destroy the whole formation in the same round that I am almost feeling guilty. I think this one just changes the game mechanics a bit too much.

By the way, I think "Operational Initiative" just doesn't work at all. I tried equal initiative units against each other, on the first round, with the enemy having 1 more star, and they always struck first. Is it just me?

[Horseman]

It is even easier than that - with the Upgrade action you can do elite replacements anywhere you can do an upgrade action. You just need to change strength to a different value and back, if the unit is not an infantry. But, this counts against the 3*elite replacements limit, so effectively you can only reinforce your troops on supply hexes, or during deployment.
I have picked this as a challenge - I hate to rely on reinforcements on the field, and consider "elite replacements" a bit unrealistic anyway.
I think this trait is not viable as it was intended - a green army would surely lose on later scenarios as "stars" give priceless benefits no equipment can offset. Not to mention that good equipment is also seriously limited by the "slots" they occupy.
I would maybe reduce the points to 2, and fix so you can do 3 "elite replacements" on top of any "upgrade" actions. But whatever.

What I see as OP is the trait "Perimeter Control". I used it so many times to walk through enemy fronts one tank a time, and attacked vulnerable support units in the back, then did 3-4-5 "Overrun" attacks with my lead munchkin prototype tank to destroy the whole formation in the same round that I am almost feeling guilty. I think this one just changes the game mechanics a bit too much.

By the way, I think "Operational Initiative" just doesn't work at all. I tried equal initiative units against each other, on the first round, with the enemy having 1 more star, and they always struck first. Is it just me?

Thats actually a fairly interesting challenge - only allowing yourself to reinforce at supply hexes in urban areas. After regressing back to the "reinforce all the time" mindset when I started the campaign I finished it by attempting to use no replacements at all during a mission - though that was more me trying to save prestige!

As to operational initiative. I just fired up the game quickly and tested - seemed to work fine. Can see the effect in the combat log and it definitely was applied. (attacked with several units to be sure)

XP does not apply to initiative, only accuracy AFAIK (it doesn't show in combat logs as having an impact)

The only other thing I can think of is if you were attacking into terrain that had an initiative cap? If you press L after the combat it'll bring up the log and show you exactly whats happening - including how the sides respective initiative scores are worked out.

[Blade0]

The only other thing I can think of is if you were attacking into terrain that had an initiative cap? If you press L after the combat it'll bring up the log and show you exactly whats happening - including how the sides respective initiative scores are worked out.

Oh, there is a combat log! Thank you for mentioning, now I can test it out!

[Horseman]

The only other thing I can think of is if you were attacking into terrain that had an initiative cap? If you press L after the combat it'll bring up the log and show you exactly whats happening - including how the sides respective initiative scores are worked out.

Oh, there is a combat log! Thank you for mentioning, now I can test it out!

[Demetrios_of_Messene]

I am currently playing a game with green army. Although I do not intend to use the OP's guidelines, I appreciate him sharing. Every information nicely laid out is welcome and then it is up to the players to use it or not (and the developers to update the game if they so wish).

On the matter of the green army, I am finding it not so worrisome as I originally thought it would be. I am on the non-historical path on the gates of Moscow (max difficulty with +2 points for general's traits). I am focusing my elite replacements on 2 over-strength tank units which are on 4 stars. The rest of my panzers, all my infantry, both my anti-tank units and both my fighter "squadrons" are less than 1 full star, but this is Ok. My artillery, bombers and AAs are building up experience fine on their own with an average of about 3 stars each unit, which is great.

What I found strangely welcome is that with a green army I do not so much get stressed over lost units or excessive casualties. A paratrooper gets in trouble and is wiped out? No big deal, I purchase another unit with almost similar experience. I want to accelerate the outcome of an encounter? Fine, let's exchange some shots with my half-star panzers. Next turn I can cheaply replace the losses. And the next turn the same and the next one, if I need to, no big deal.

PS: This is my 4th campaign with the game and the one with the worst heroes. I already have 2 liberator and 2 famous heroes... and I cannot even spend the excess prestige on elite replacements... come on game, don't be so cruel to my green army!

[Blade0]

PS: This is my 4th campaign with the game and the one with the worst heroes. I already have 2 liberator and 2 famous heroes... and I cannot even spend the excess prestige on elite replacements... come on game, don't be so cruel to my green army!

I thought the heroes you are getting at the beginning of scenarios are fixed. I never got the same twice, and reloading the last round and finishing again gave me the same hero. Not that I played with it excessively, so I may be wrong.

[Horseman]

PS: This is my 4th campaign with the game and the one with the worst heroes. I already have 2 liberator and 2 famous heroes... and I cannot even spend the excess prestige on elite replacements... come on game, don't be so cruel to my green army!

I thought the heroes you are getting at the beginning of scenarios are fixed. I never got the same twice, and reloading the last round and finishing again gave me the same hero. Not that I played with it excessively, so I may be wrong.

Heroes are randomised every play through.

However they are "locked in" at campaign start. So save/reload will not change what you get.

That is why I think Killer team is a bit of a gamble (but still a solid choice IMO). Even restarting over and over to get 3 good heroes won't help you if you then get a slew of rubbish heroes in a row.

Plus really you would have got those three heroes after the first three scenarios. The "extra" ones you get are really the last three!

[Demetrios_of_Messene]

PS: This is my 4th campaign with the game and the one with the worst heroes. I already have 2 liberator and 2 famous heroes... and I cannot even spend the excess prestige on elite replacements... come on game, don't be so cruel to my green army!

I thought the heroes you are getting at the beginning of scenarios are fixed. I never got the same twice, and reloading the last round and finishing again gave me the same hero. Not that I played with it excessively, so I may be wrong.

I find it frequent to be awarded with heroes of same trait. I would prefer it if there was a check in the game to minimize this from occurring. In the same campaign I also have 2 lethal attack heroes (which are quite useful for my artillery).

In my previous campaign I had 2 overrun heroes (little to no use for me).

In another campaign I had 2 "ignore entrenchment" heroes (That was very generous from the game! One such hero combined with a vigilant one created a ruthless city-cleansing Panzer)

[nexusno2000]

Heroes are indeed locked in at game start.

Duplicate heroes are semi-common; they are randomly assigned, and there is NO duplicate check.

This playthrough I have 2 Cheap Replacements (meh) and 2 Shock Tactics (good).

Last time I got 2 of the fast rebase hero - in a row IIRC. I wanted to scream... but it was actually pretty good lol.

[Horseman]

Heroes are indeed locked in at game start.

Duplicate heroes are semi-common; they are randomly assigned, and there is a duplicate check.

This playthrough I have 2 Cheap Replacements (meh) and 2 Shock Tactics (good).

Last time I got 2 of the fast rebase hero - in a row IIRC. I wanted to scream... but it was actually pretty good lol.

I could have done with some fast rebase heroes in Pacific in reach after I lost all my forward airbases!

[Blade0]

OK, I have found something else.
In the directory steamapps\common\Panzer Corps 2\PanzerCorps2\Content\Data\ there is a units.csv file.
All unit data is there. You can change stats, slots, whatever, as you see fit. Then start a new game (it is not read again for an old one, I checked).
I set all recons as tanks. I set all light/medium/heavy/super heavy tanks to the same cost respectively. Works like a charm. Probably you can also create new units as long as you are using the old resources, haven't tried.
Actually, I have found the same file for PC1, but I had no reason to modify it. For PC2, I have a problem with the slot system. Now I can solve it.
Image resources are probably packed as unreal 4 resources, so probably we can also modify them.