Question for the Experts

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eddieballgame
2nd Lieutenant - Panzer IVF/2
2nd Lieutenant - Panzer IVF/2
Posts: 651
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:53 am

Question for the Experts

Post by eddieballgame »

Ok, now that this game has been out for a short while, I would like to pick the brains of the experts.
I realize on the toughest settings certain 'TRAITS' are the favorites.
What I would like to see is how the 'experts' ( & you know who you are :) ) would rate the 'TRAITS' on 'Colonel' & 'General', where the rest of us play.

In other words; if you were going to adjust the pluses & minuses of all the 'TRAITs', what would your list look like.
Should there be some plus 3, 4s, or 5s combined with the same adjustments for the negatives?
Or is what the game has assigned numerically for the 'TRAITS' the best?
Thanks for any responses.
Edmon
Slitherine
Slitherine
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Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:50 pm

Re: Question for the Experts

Post by Edmon »

While there is a lot of personal perference in what traits the "Top" players pick.

Everyone agrees that killer team is the best pick of the positive ones. Heroes are crazy OP and Killer Team usually gives you at least 1, if not more, of the most powerful types.

After that, I would say that traits that support capture (Flex, Grip, Prem Control) are probably the most powerful picks simply because capturing is uber OP and leads to the ability to print prestige. You might as well be playing on the easiest difficulty if you are going to farm captures from every mission using Flex&Grip. Trophies is not even needed, since "simple" captures is more than enough money.

In terms of negatives, the absolute worst is "poor ground control". I have yet to meet the player who will touch it with a 10ft pole. It makes the suicidal A.I. vastly harder to deal with, as it will just run into your ranks and go after your artillery/AA. Speaking of artillery, denied artillery is probably the second worst trait to deal with. Aircraft you can live without, as long as you take AA veteran, as artillery can be used to do more or less whatever you'd use dive/level bombers for.

Those are my current thoughts.
eddieballgame
2nd Lieutenant - Panzer IVF/2
2nd Lieutenant - Panzer IVF/2
Posts: 651
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:53 am

Re: Question for the Experts

Post by eddieballgame »

Thank you 'Edmon', & here I was thinking that 'Green Army' was the worst trait.
So, you have changed your view on Flexible Command.
What is your thoughts on the loss of 'exp' per capturing vs killing units?

btw, what do you think of this;

Liberator = +3 ( was +2 )
Killerteam = +4 ( was +2 )
AntiAirVeteran = +3 ( was +2 )
FlexibleCommand = +3 ( was +1 )
Green Army = -5 ( was -3 )

All Negative values have INCREASED -1: Minimum = -2
example: "NoAirForce": -4 ( was -3 )
Last edited by eddieballgame on Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
colberki
Corporal - Strongpoint
Corporal - Strongpoint
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 1:56 am

Re: Question for the Experts

Post by colberki »

So, you think no need to select “Liberator” trait for Colonel or General level difficulty? FYI Moscow, Stalingrad used up a lot of prestige. I was unable to get the 5000 prestige rail gun at Sevastopol, and barely able to pay for the alternate path option of Volga River. Due to lack of prestige, I was defeated by the Soviet’s massive forces turning back on to intercept my attempt to drive N along the Volga River.
Edmon
Slitherine
Slitherine
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Re: Question for the Experts

Post by Edmon »

colberki wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:30 am So, you think no need to select “Liberator” trait for Colonel or General level difficulty? FYI Moscow, Stalingrad used up a lot of prestige. I was unable to get the 5000 prestige rail gun at Sevastopol, and barely able to pay for the alternate path option of Volga River. Due to lack of prestige, I was defeated by the Soviet’s massive forces turning back on to intercept my attempt to drive N along the Volga River.
Liberator is an easy way to get a fixed amount of extra prestige, I wouldn't say it is bad at all.

Capturing allows you to farm vast amounts of prestige, the tools that make it easy can lead to overwhelming advantage if you really maximize your farm early.

There is some level of skill required in knowing what you can get away with, with capture. It is however, quite hard to capture normally. Flex/Grip/PremCon make it vastly easier to pull off.
Matyna
Corporal - Strongpoint
Corporal - Strongpoint
Posts: 72
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Re: Question for the Experts

Post by Matyna »

I would more recomend to get 2x more captured equipment, it give you so much money, you can have like 30k at end of campaign, and some enemy units are better than your own, especialy Soviet ones, as T-34 and KV-1 are better than German tanks until you get Long barreled Pz IV. And theyr SU-6 AA is better than any mobile German AA until mobile 88 that you get only at almost end of campaign.
SineMora
Sergeant Major - SdKfz 234/2 8Rad
Sergeant Major - SdKfz 234/2 8Rad
Posts: 641
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:20 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Question for the Experts

Post by SineMora »

colberki wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:30 am So, you think no need to select “Liberator” trait for Colonel or General level difficulty? FYI Moscow, Stalingrad used up a lot of prestige. I was unable to get the 5000 prestige rail gun at Sevastopol, and barely able to pay for the alternate path option of Volga River. Due to lack of prestige, I was defeated by the Soviet’s massive forces turning back on to intercept my attempt to drive N along the Volga River.
Quoting myself from the other thread on traits, Liberator is still a great pick if you're finding yourself constrained by prestige, as it's the most straightforward way to improve it (requiring nothing more than capturing victory locations, which you'll be doing anyway). If anything it's going to be more valuable on lower difficulty settings because players are more likely to find themselves short on prestige -- on Generalissimus I'd expect a player to know how to exploit captures to render prestige a non-issue, though, which is why the trait offers no utility at all there.

How much of a relative increase this would be I don't know, though -- I've no idea how much passive prestige you generate on General.
Matyna wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:09 am I would more recomend to get 2x more captured equipment, it give you so much money, you can have like 30k at end of campaign, and some enemy units are better than your own, especialy Soviet ones, as T-34 and KV-1 are better than German tanks until you get Long barreled Pz IV. And theyr SU-6 AA is better than any mobile German AA until mobile 88 that you get only at almost end of campaign.
Is it better than Liberator? If you know how to play to capture, but if you do then you'd probably be better of just going with Flexible Command and Perimeter Control, the 2 strongest traits (Killer Team excluded). The problem is that you pay 2 points for something that offers very limited utility -- you'll have more prestige than you need even w/o it, and if you want to field Soviet armour you'll have more T-34s (and at least one KV-1) after Kiev than you know what to do with. There is a substantial opportunity cost here. Admittedly Trophies appears to be very popular, especially on Steam, among General players, so perhaps I'm overestimating how easy it is to use Perimeter Control and Flexible Command.

There's an exploit that effectively makes Green Army a freebie, but it's rather cheap using that. I largely agree with Edmon, with the caveat that I'd rank Liberator (and possibly Trophies) as more valuable to General players, because they're more likely to run into problems with prestige. Looking at it another way, by picking Perimeter Control you are effectively forcing Poor Ground Control on the AI, and if this is a weakness you'd never, ever want to pick, well...
Mildly pretentious Swede. Goes by Path on most platforms, including Steam.
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=596&t=98034 -- Generalissimus AAR (no Trophies / Heroes)
Matyna
Corporal - Strongpoint
Corporal - Strongpoint
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:03 am

Re: Question for the Experts

Post by Matyna »

SineMora wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:18 pm
Is it better than Liberator? If you know how to play to capture, but if you do then you'd probably be better of just going with Flexible Command and Perimeter Control, the 2 strongest traits (Killer Team excluded). The problem is that you pay 2 points for something that offers very limited utility -- you'll have more prestige than you need even w/o it, and if you want to field Soviet armour you'll have more T-34s (and at least one KV-1) after Kiev than you know what to do with. There is a substantial opportunity cost here. Admittedly Trophies appears to be very popular, especially on Steam, among General players, so perhaps I'm overestimating how easy it is to use Perimeter Control and Flexible Command.

There's an exploit that effectively makes Green Army a freebie, but it's rather cheap using that. I largely agree with Edmon, with the caveat that I'd rank Liberator (and possibly Trophies) as more valuable to General players, because they're more likely to run into problems with prestige. Looking at it another way, by picking Perimeter Control you are effectively forcing Poor Ground Control on the AI, and if this is a weakness you'd never, ever want to pick, well...
Idk tbh, i didnt used Liberator. And for some Captured vehicles they appear rarely, that is for example that SU-6, they are rare, and it is good to have 2x more of it with equipment trait. Same goes for example for Panhard, they are better then German ones until Sd.Kfz 234/1. Or B1bis is really good, but you see like 2-3 of them in western Europe campaign 1940. And also you can use Su-100Y and that is in only one scenario in Moscow, i could use it until Stalingrad then, without trait i coudnt. I really like that trait tbh, i use captured vehicles extensively and it is one of my favorite trait. Together with death grasp it can be really good for capturing in short time.
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