Overlaps

[Bugle999]

Situation as follows:

.............CvCv
.............CvCv
.............EL.EL
........Ch.Ch.Ch.
.............Ch......

Cv are friendly facing down page and have hit El in rear.
Ch are friendly Heavy Chariots facing up the page.
El are enemy Elephants, the El to the left is facing down the page (fighting Ch), the one to the right is facing up the page (fighting Cv).
The impact phase has been completed.
Question: can the Ch expand the rear rank Chariot to act as an overlap to the right. This would actually be in the overlap position against the El facing UP the page.

Hopefully this makes sense.

MTIA

[marioslaz]

Situation as follows:

.............CvCv
.............CvCv
.............EL.EL
........Ch.Ch.Ch.
.............Ch......

Cv are friendly facing down page and have hit El in rear.
Ch are friendly Heavy Chariots facing up the page.
El are enemy Elephants, the El to the left is facing down the page (fighting Ch), the one to the right is facing up the page (fighting Cv).
The impact phase has been completed.
Question: can the Ch expand the rear rank Chariot to act as an overlap to the right. This would actually be in the overlap position against the El facing UP the page.

Hopefully this makes sense.

MTIA

I think yes, because Ch rear rank base doesn't contribute to melee, either with POA, or with dice.

[Bugle999]

Marioslav, Thanks for input - I understand that Ch only fight 1 rank an dtherefore can expand if allowed to do so. The main issue I was tring to clarify was whether it was legal to expand to the right against teh Ekl that was facing the wrong way UP the page. I thought it might be argued that you can only have an overlap on either side of the El facing you (Down the page), which there already is...

[SirGarnet]

See p75 explaining Overlap position and p92 explaining who counts in Melee.

The Chariots in front edge contact with enemy fight the enemy whose front they contact. Starting out, only the Chariot on the left is in overlap and there is room for the spare Chariot to move into overlap on the right.

[marioslaz]

Marioslav, Thanks for input - I understand that Ch only fight 1 rank an dtherefore can expand if allowed to do so. The main issue I was tring to clarify was whether it was legal to expand to the right against teh Ekl that was facing the wrong way UP the page. I thought it might be argued that you can only have an overlap on either side of the El facing you (Down the page), which there already is...

I understood what you mean and I suppose this is not a problem. You can overlap enemy who you are fighting on flank, or rear. In overlap definition the facing of enemy is not a problem. Your base to overlap must be in side edge contact with another base in front edge contact with enemy. If the Ch base in rear rank expands to right it will be in side edge contact with a friend base in front contact with enemy; so the requirements to entitle as overlap are fulfilled.

[Bugle999]

Thank you for replies..

In Summary it matters not the facing of the enemy - in this situation if the Ch was to expand the dice will be as follows:

Cv 4 dice (-1 for Disorder) = 3
Ch 8 dice (-2 for disorder) = 6
El 2 dice versus both Cav and Ch.

Correct......plse confirm?

Actually in the battle the El were disrupted by the rear charge (2 dice and 1 dice only), fragged in the impact phase (1 dice against each opponent) and broke in the melee phase.

As an aside if the Cv had been on the Right flank instead of the rear then thh Ch would not be able to expand and count as an overlap...correct...plse confirm?

[lawrenceg]

Thank you for replies..

In Summary it matters not the facing of the enemy - in this situation if the Ch was to expand the dice will be as follows:

Cv 4 dice (-1 for Disorder) = 3
Ch 8 dice (-2 for disorder) = 6
El 2 dice versus both Cav and Ch.

Correct......plse confirm?

yes

Actually in the battle the El were disrupted by the rear charge (2 dice and 1 dice only), fragged in the impact phase (1 dice against each opponent) and broke in the melee phase.

As an aside if the Cv had been on the Right flank instead of the rear then thh Ch would not be able to expand and count as an overlap...correct...plse confirm?

wrong, it would still count as an overlap. I can't find anything in the rules to say it iwouldn't.

[SirGarnet]

As an aside if the Cv had been on the Right flank instead of the rear then thh Ch would not be able to expand and count as an overlap...correct...plse confirm?

Yes, per p86 the El can't be overlapped on the corner between 2 contacted edges. Since the Chariot can't contribute to the fight it can't feed in there.

[marioslaz]

As an aside if the Cv had been on the Right flank instead of the rear then thh Ch would not be able to expand and count as an overlap...correct...plse confirm?

wrong, it would still count as an overlap. I can't find anything in the rules to say it iwouldn't.

And instead you (Bugle999) are correct. See p. 86. If I understood your example, the BG of El has a corner contacted on each edge, and in this corner it cannot be overlapped (like DBM, but shhhh! I don't know if I can say this )

[lawrenceg]

As an aside if the Cv had been on the Right flank instead of the rear then thh Ch would not be able to expand and count as an overlap...correct...plse confirm?

wrong, it would still count as an overlap. I can't find anything in the rules to say it iwouldn't.

And instead you (Bugle999) are correct. See p. 86. If I understood your example, the BG of El has a corner contacted on each edge, and in this corner it cannot be overlapped (like DBM, but shhhh! I don't know if I can say this )

I'm glad someone could find it.