[Text Bug] Submarine Loading Tip [New]

[Thales99]

The loading tip shown below claims that surfaced submarines can be detected by adjacent aircraft, but aircraft have no ability whatsoever to detect submarines in the current version of the game (no matter whether surfaced or submerged).

Besides adjacent ships (and ships attempting to move into or through the submarine's hex), surfaced submarines can only be detected by Sonar Sweep or by adjacent land units in coastal hexes.

On a related note, the AI seems to be prevented from trying to move into a surfaced or submerged submarine's hex. This means that the human player will never be able to "ambush" the AI with a surfaced submarine, but at the same time never has to fear an opportunity attack by a ship that attempts to move into a submerged submarine's hex. I assume that this is not a bug, but an intentional feature to avoid problems with the AI.

[GabeKnight]

On a related note, the AI seems to be prevented from trying to move into a surfaced or submerged submarine's hex. This means that the human player will never be able to "ambush" the AI with a surfaced submarine, but at the same time never has to fear an opportunity attack by a ship that attempts to move into a submerged submarine's hex. I assume that this is not a bug, but an intentional feature to avoid problems with the AI.

Sorry if it seems that all I'm doing lately is correcting others, but although your first statement about the misleading tooltip is accurate (it was reported multiple times already and should've been fixed a long time ago), the second one isn't.

I think that (perhaps) some AI units, that can not attack submerged subs (e.g. transports), may be indeed prevented to enter a submerged subs hex, but AI warships are not. I've almost finished the Kriegsmarine DLC (replayed it after you mentioned a bug in the first scen) and ran into both situations you've described. And it's not the first time either that I've had enemy ships move into my submerged sub's hex. The "ambush" situation was a first, though - but it's not surprising as I usually try to keep my subs out of harm's way.

[Thales99]

I think that (perhaps) some AI units, that can not attack submerged subs (e.g. transports), may be indeed prevented to enter a submerged subs hex, but AI warships are not. I've almost finished the Kriegsmarine DLC (replayed it after you mentioned a bug in the first scen) and ran into both situations you've described. And it's not the first time either that I've had enemy ships move into my submerged sub's hex. The "ambush" situation was a first, though - but it's not surprising as I usually try to keep my subs out of harm's way.

Thank you for adding your experiences, GabeKnight. The AI behavior described by me may not be as consistent as I thought.

At least in some situations it seems to be reproducible: I did another test in the Narvik scenario by immediately moving a submarine from the closest deployment hex towards the approaching battlecruisers. As shown in the image below, if I stay out of the way of the first battlecruiser it will always expend its full movement allowance of 4 hexes. If I move into its path instead, it will always stop one hex short and fire on my submarine.

[GabeKnight]

Please don't get me wrong, I'm fully aware that the AI does NOT play by the same rules as the player. It's definitely aware of some units and it does not have the same FOW mechanic. Horst wrote many threads/posts about the "AI cheating"...

Take air combat for example: You must have noticed that the AI uses something like the "radar" mechanic for the whole map, always knowing where your planes are.
And there's something similar going on with "concealed" units, like commandos. Although the AI can not "see" and attack them directly, it's aware of their presence and it's using a very effective encirclement method to trap, find and finally destroy my hidden unit.

I'm not sure whether some AI behaviour is dependent on the AI team orders (move to hex, S&D, ...) or if there's some random element involved. But I guess the AI needs some additional info to work properly/efficiently against a human adversary.

[Thales99]

But I guess the AI needs some additional info to work properly/efficiently against a human adversary.

I fully agree, and I don't consider it as "cheating" that the AI receives a little help with concealed units. It would indeed be too easy for the human player to confuse or exploit the AI.