Most Important Star of Experience

[goose_2]

I wish I knew how to create a vote button thingy.

But I do not.

So, I am playing a huge longterm map in multiplayer. 1939 which is extremely fun but very time consuming.

Along with my many single player games I am playing it had me contemplating this question.

What do you think the most difficult/important star of experience it is to acquire in the game?

In multiplayer it is extremely important to get that 1st star of experience and can make the difference in your success in the game. It makes spending that extra prestige to maintain that star of experience sometimes very crucial, as such I have planes with 2 stars of experience that are devastating that I want to maintain that crucial initiative attack bonuses for my airforce.

But does that make the 1st star the most important or the 2nd star? As the 2nd star gets you the +1 in Initiative, and it is much more difficult to get that 2nd star rather than the 1st star which is much easier to acquire?

For me, I find the true game changing star of experience to get, keep, and maintain has to be the 4th star of experience. For AT's it gives you +2 in Initiative and +8 in Hard attack that is truly devastating.

It is so difficult to get up to that 4th star of experience, especially on the Field Marshall difficulty.

But what are your thoughts?

[dalfrede]

What do you think the most difficult/important star of experience it is to acquire in the game?

That's two questions.
The most important is the first star, because it means the unit is no longer green.
AT, AA, and Fighter the stars are very important. +2 attack each per star.
I have found for Fighters Init is the most important trait. Shooting first for fighters is a big deal.
So the even stars are big deals.

The difficult stars are any on recon or AA because these units don't get many kills.
Recons are fragile, which makes their surviving long enough to get many stars difficult.
Willy's Jeep is the exception which shows the rule.
Which brings up a question I will ask on the PzC2 forum.

For reference from exp.pzdat

Exp.jpg (83.66 KiB) Viewed 4153 times

[huckc]

IIRC the game rounds up those 0.5x experience bonuses to the nearest integer which means it's the odd levels of experience that actually have higher effective gains, levels 1, 3, and 5. The more 0.5x a unit type has the bigger the effect, for units with no 0.5x bonuses like strategic bombers then it's not a factor.

So given the above and since each experience level bonus results in diminishing returns as a percentage of its previous stats then I'd say it's definitely the first star that's most important math-wise.

Intangibly? Hard to say

[RVallant]

In the GC I felt 3 stars was when I could reliably start using infantry to defend against the big boys in close terrain. Anything below three stars just got chewed up and below 2 were flat out decimated.

Everything else seems to do alright once they're at 2 stars, but then again, it really depends on the foes you're facing imo, if you're up against 5 star experienced troops then urgh.

[PeteMitchell]

While I agree with what was said above, wouldn't it also be that every single star of experience is vital/critical as you progress in the GC over time, i.e. year by year to be able to keep up with the enemy (at least until including 4 stars)?

[captainjack]

I think it is probably the first one in most cases. The dumb but true reason is that you have to get the first star before the rest. More constructively, the first star is often the most difficult to earn, especially beyond about 1940, as the difference between 2 and 3 star enemy and your green unit makes you very vulnerable. Even 1* lifts combat odds quite a bit so you will be targetted a lot before you get your first star.
But this is a generalisation and for AA fighters and AT it is probably 3rd or 4th, while strat bombers probably 3*for overall effectiveness or maybe 5* because bomber efficiency can exceed 100%. For bridgies and recon stars may be almost an irrelevance. And it will also vary accordibg to who and when you are fighting.

[demyansk]

Even if you have 3 or 4 stars and a strength of 10 you still get the advantages? You don't have to be overstretched?

[goose_2]

This, of course, was a trick question.

What is the most important star? The next one of course. That is what is so great about this game, is the game is like an rpg war game, that you start off with 0 Experience 0 level characters that if you baby and finesse just right you can get up to the 5th level of exp.

I am currently playing Soviet Corps at an insane Double Field Marshall level that makes every single point of experience important.

I think it is having a good effect on my playstyle, where as before on Double Rommel I was concerned about every single amount of prestige, now it is very important how I build up and maintain my force. So certain units get lost because they are extremely vulnerable, like some tanks and recons, and planes, but it is ok because I have plenty of prestige to replace them.

Getting that 1st star is still relatively easy, even at this insane level, but 2 stars is about the extent of my experience for most of my infantry and tanks. I have 2 planes with 2 stars, and 3 or 4 artillery with 3 stars of experience.

Even my Strategic Bombers are struggling to get the needed experience. That is all for now.

[faos333]

I think the most difficult star is the AA because these units don't get lot of action, even if you deploy as ground units

[goose_2]

Ok I am bringing up this fun topic out of the graveyard as in my Ultimate difficulty playthrough the answer to this question has become crystal clear.

The 4th star is the most important star of experience. Once your unit reaches the 4th star of experience it becomes a beast.

Infantry begins tearing everything out of its holes, and artillery does better at suppressing/killing. Bombers hit harder. Tanks become nearly impregnable. Planes become one shot beasts.

I do not have any AA or AT's at 4 stars yet, but they should be beasts at that mode.

Recons will never be beasts but I do have one that does fine despite his limitations.

The issue is getting units their on Ultimate difficulty is extremely time consuming and costly, but once there it is a game changer.

4 starred Fallschijaeger is awesome.
4 starred Tiger is devastating
4 starred Oleh Dir rips into everything.

I am looking forward to figuring out how to break each map in 43. I do not know if it is possible, but I will try.

[captainjack]

On 4*,
Strat bombers. 4* allows 84% efficiency at 14 strength and 78% at 13 strength so you have a very good chance of neutralisation which can remove spawn sites or force enemy units to move to reclaim targets (good for Grenadieren vs IS2) and can strip most heavy units to 1 ammo in a single attack. 3* is nice but just that bit less effective, and 5 is better still.
My 4* AT and AA are pretty effective. I now start as an 88 to get 3* and then convert to the 7/1 as experience gain is awful for pure AA as you get reduced or no exp for attacking uniits that can't fire back, so defensive fire is fine, but attacking isn't good for experience. As with strat bombers, 3* is useful but 4* is a step up (of course 5 is better).
Fighters. I have the special from sedan (Bar?) at 14 strength (rest are mainly 12). He's been doing a lot of 1 shot kills on 10 strength units (even a few 3* yak7) and even the occasional 13str pe2. Couldn't do that at 3*.
So definitely some good results and probably not a coincidence that these are the +2/* units.

[faos333]

Hi Goose what is the fourth star and which units get it in terms of kills?

[goose_2]

Hi Goose what is the fourth star and which units get it in terms of kills?

The units you fight with in a campaign earn experience. Since I am playing on Ultimate they earn 50% experience instead of the 100% of the normal experience.

I have started 43 Grand Campaign East with a few units with 4 stars which are beasts in their effectiveness, versus a majority with 3 stars of experience. 3 stars are better than none, but not near as good as 4.

4 seems to be a real game changer

Units earn experience as they fight and over the course of Campaigns they can can earn up to 5 stars of experience. 5 is very difficult to reach with units except for Strat Bombers and artillery which gain experience quickly.

[PeteMitchell]

So would you say the impact gap between 3* and 4* is the biggest (compared to 0-1, 1-2, 2-3, 4-5)?

[goose_2]

So would you say the impact gap between 3* and 4* is the biggest (compared to 0-1, 1-2, 2-3, 4-5)?

The impact is felt very keenly on Ultimate difficulty.

For example: You see the difference and impact a 4 star Fallschimjaeger has on a unit versus a 3 star Fallschimjaeger on some of my latest postings in Stalingrad.

By the by did you see my latest post for BE I hope you enjoy and I look forward to hearing your thoughts. Especially how to crack Rostov or El Alamein

[PeteMitchell]

So would you say the impact gap between 3* and 4* is the biggest (compared to 0-1, 1-2, 2-3, 4-5)?

The impact is felt very keenly on Ultimate difficulty.

For example: You see the difference and impact a 4 star Fallschimjaeger has on a unit versus a 3 star Fallschimjaeger on some of my latest postings in Stalingrad.

By the by did you see my latest post for BE I hope you enjoy and I look forward to hearing your thoughts. Especially how to crack Rostov or El Alamein

Yes, I just watched it, very nice that you played 1.5 turns and you made good (historical) progress! I just replied to your questions on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=innB_Z47iOI