100 Years War English

[HenryTheFifth]

My first post with some starter questions;

My friend and I have just purchased the rules and are doing the 100 years war in 28mm together. I'm playing the English good guys, and he is playing the bad guys (the much despised French! Boo Hiss! Spittle!) Looking over the list I see that I'll be playing a predominantly heavy foot list, very immobile, with lots of archers, against his knights, mixed foot, and crossbows.

Could you more experienced generals point me in the right direction as far as standard formations and deployments go? That Is; Do I deploy my longbowmen out front? Behind my main line on a hill? In a second rank to fire in impact? Off to the sides of my line? In a single rank or two ranks?

I am totally inexperienced in ancients...please...help me butcher the Frenchies...they have it coming after all.

Thanks!

[shall]

lbw to the fore with small 4s of billmen as rear support.

make sure you get all shots in.

lbw in 8s and put a general in when charged - the rerolls on extra dice make the difference. If kn are disred by shooting you should win the impact with 12 dice vs 6. iIf not decent chance to bounce them. decent chance of getting trampled too of course.

try not to get henry v stuck on end of a french lance.

Have fun. Very even fight generally.

Si

[HenryTheFifth]

Thanks! Lets see if I understand correctly...

lbw to the fore with small 4s of billmen as rear support.

Longbows out front. 4's of billmen means 4 stands correct? 2x2 or 4 wide?

make sure you get all shots in. lbw in 8s and put a general in when charged - the rerolls on extra dice make the difference. If kn are disred by shooting you should win the impact with 12 dice vs 6. iIf not decent chance to bounce them. decent chance of getting trampled too of course.

Longbows in 8's means 4wide x 2deep or 8 wide? Behind stakes right?

try not to get henry v stuck on end of a french lance.

I doubt the French could muster the courage to attempt such an affront! I DID mention they were French didn't I?

How do I deploy my dismounted men at arms? One large battle line to act as the main line? And where do I deploy this line of steel? Behind the longbows and billmen? Sorry for all the beginner questions...just want the English to give a good account for themselves.

Thanks again!

Henry the Fifth

[DaiSho]

Thanks! Lets see if I understand correctly...

lbw to the fore with small 4s of billmen as rear support.

Longbows out front. 4's of billmen means 4 stands correct? 2x2 or 4 wide?

That's what he meant. Look up 'rear support' in the appendix. It will make more sense why he's doing it that way (at least I think that's why he's doing it that way). You'll want to be around 5 or 6" behind the bow. If you're too close you'll have to test if they break. You've got an 8" range to support, so no need to be too close.

make sure you get all shots in. lbw in 8s and put a general in when charged - the rerolls on extra dice make the difference. If kn are disred by shooting you should win the impact with 12 dice vs 6. iIf not decent chance to bounce them. decent chance of getting trampled too of course.

Longbows in 8's means 4wide x 2deep or 8 wide? Behind stakes right?

Stakes aren't all that necessary I don't think. They are expensive for what you get - remember foot ignore them.

try not to get henry v stuck on end of a french lance.

I doubt the French could muster the courage to attempt such an affront! I DID mention they were French didn't I?

How do I deploy my dismounted men at arms? One large battle line to act as the main line? And where do I deploy this line of steel? Behind the longbows and billmen? Sorry for all the beginner questions...just want the English to give a good account for themselves.

Thanks again!

Henry the Fifth

I'm not particularly conversant with this army, but I've seen it used, and for the most part the dismounted knights act as 'go betweens' between the longbowmen. It gives them that little bit of 'tough' if you survive impact and have overlaps, or if you don't survive impact it means that you've got a better chance of defeating them in melee.

Remember, if you're disrupted after melee they don't bounce, so you'll have a longer combat, and you want to be able to win that, which is going to be tough.

The best way to beat knights is to kill an element. As soon as you've done that (generally - if they're run in 4's) they are -1 for 25% losses for every test. Knights are tough, but brittle. It isn't impossible to do. On impact you may even lose the combat but kill an element. With 10 (I think) dice disadvantaged and a general in the front rank you'll likely get 3-4 hits, which means even if he wins he dies on a 1 or maybe a 2, which is a very bad thing for him.

Ian

[BlackPrince]

I use mainly Free Company but occasionally English HYW. The things I have found so far:
for 800 pts use three generals, FC, TC, TC
for 600 pts use two generals, FC, TC
Do not charge your LB into the French XB to clear them out. In theory you are swordsman which gives you a +POA but it is not enough to guarantee you will win. Just shoot it out with the Filthy French.
Stakes still have not decided if they are worth it especially if your enemy goes infantry heavy.
LB BG sizes at the moment I use a mixture of 8 and 6 mainly because I can not decide which works best. though I have found the 8s in the centre and 6 on the flanks seems quite good. The units only hold or go forward where as the flank LB bgs usually do all the wheeling, turning and than maneouvering shit.

Never forget that your billmen and men at arms can interpenetrate your LB.

Keith

[petedalby]

All good advice so far.

The only thing not mentioned is terrain. Try to get as much Uneven and Rough down as you can. Your LB still move through it normally but Knights don't like it - they don't count their lance and MF don't count as in the open.

Don't buy the stakes. It makes you immobile but can lead to some nervous moments if your LB are charged by mounted in the open. That's when you need a General with and rear support.

Personally I favour LB in 8's but you pays your money and takes your choice.

The same applies to Generals. I tried 800ap with just 2 TCs recently - 1 of whom died very quickly in combat. The army was still robust enough to win but it's not something I'll be repeating. I favour 1 IC and 2 TCs or 4 TCs. Can't see the point of an FC with this army.

Have fun!

Pete

[shall]

Yes all good correct interps of my short hand earlier.

LBw in 8s best for me. My army has 14Bgs which is enough. 4s of billmen set 4-5" back from the LB line give rear support with limited risk. And can often get back any victorious Kn who do break through. Armoured ones are good enough.

Stakes are not worth it IMHO. Not because they don't work - indeed they make you near invincible vs Knights - but rather beacuse no fool will attack you while on a horse when you are carrying them. I much prefer to temp the enemy into attacking.

The key to me is to get enough shots in. Make sure you get your long range shot and 2 more at short range. It can really hurt of you can ever get an overlap base shooting, which ytur manouvrability should allow. If your DISR a Kn block it will often have to charge and you should beat it if you stick a TC in, and take a base down aftr which it is trouble for the Kn for sure. The best they can usually hpe for is to bounce and to get shot with 6 dice vs 3 bases!! Ouch.

However I would warn you HYW and WOR Enlgish are not for the faint-hearted and can be hard for the newcomer to make the most of. All the above strategies carry consdierable risk and a small mistake can snowball into French vicotry easily.

However I am sure as Henry Cinque you will not make any such mistakes and will carry the day. You are asking all the right questions of the kings learned counsels

Si

[david53]

Don't buy the stakes. It makes you immobile but can lead to some nervous moments if your LB are charged by mounted in the open. That's when you need a General with and rear support.

Pete

Sorry have used this army with stakes if your moving into open ground with a good chance of being charged get the stakes down. You might not survive the Knights charge otherwise just a thought. You can allways pick them up again so your not stuck there all the time.

Dave

[rbodleyscott]

Don't buy the stakes. It makes you immobile but can lead to some nervous moments if your LB are charged by mounted in the open. That's when you need a General with and rear support.

Pete

Sorry have used this army with stakes if your moving into open ground with a good chance of being charged get the stakes down. You might not survive the Knights charge otherwise just a thought. You can allways pick them up again so your not stuck there all the time.

Dave

I must say I have found longbow armies with stakes much more mobile than those without. (Because they don't need any terrain to fight enemy mounted). But the stakes do cost points and hence the army is smaller.

OTOH if you place your MAA behind your archers, the army will have a smaller frontage yet.

As with every choice, it is a tradeoff.

I have tended to use MAA in the middle of the array with two huge wings of longbowmen with stakes.

Just make sure the longbowmen are drilled and have a commander with them when you want to emplace the stakes. (Assuming you don't do so until the enemy mounted are in bow - and hence probably charge - range.)

[nikgaukroger]

I have a feeling that stakes are a nice safety net when learning to use these armies and become less necessary as you become better at using the army.

Certainly Simon's 3rd place at the Challenge last year with a WotR army without stakes shows they aren't always needed - which he kindly demonstrated to me in a practice game before hand as well Can't recall whether Bruce's 2nd plaing version had them or not.

[shall]

Certainly Simon's 3rd place at the Challenge last year with a WotR army without stakes shows they aren't always needed - which he kindly demonstrated to me in a practice game before hand as well Can't recall whether Bruce's 2nd plaing version had them or not.

It did IIRC, which gave me the edge over it head to head.

Si

[paulcummins]

I took stakes with my HYW at the Challange last year - 1 BG deployed them once.
In fact in 3 comps with the army stakes have been deployed 3 times.
Only once have they actually had a combat effect - the knights were already commited, and if I remember correctly, there wasnt really much else in the army.
Though they have had a game effect as the enemy knights didnt stop to play with the flower of English Yeomanry, and once the stakes were out, the mounted ran (rode) for it.

[BlackPrince]

FC versus IC with this army is personal preference but as the army is Drilled, non impact and smallish so command and control relatively easy. At crunch time I have found that a FC with a supporting TC seems to cover it. So I use the extra points to try and get my bg count up. In some ways there is no clear cut right or wrong choice it is largely down to how effectively you use your generals. An effectively used FC will be of more benefit than a poorly used IC.

Keith

[HenryTheFifth]

Thanks for all the advice Gents! I've ordered the figures and bases necessary to build the starter list. It comes with stakes so I'll use the "free" training wheels until I'm ready to remove them.

The artillery options look tempting...I like the thought of Frenchmen exploding and flying through the air in tiny flaming bits. They seem to be a long-range-cohesion-test-applicators. Are they viable tactical options? Are they needed with the flurry of longbows or redundant?

Henry the Fifth
King of England
Regent of France (Soon to be re-named Southern-England)
Field of Glory Nooblet

[SirGarnet]

The artillery options look tempting...I like the thought of Frenchmen exploding and flying through the air in tiny flaming bits. They seem to be a long-range-cohesion-test-applicators. Are they viable tactical options? Are they needed with the flurry of longbows or redundant?

I'll quote Simon Hall, cited in the design principles thread:

“As usual all calibrated to give good overall feel for the period which is:
* Artillery don't do much except against nice large dense targets, and even then nothing like later periods
* They can create some psychological effects though if supported by others
* They are pretty effective behind barricades
* They are very useful in a siege
* They were however used on battlefields and need to be represented”

The light are slow, the heavy are immobile - they can be useful in the right circumstances, but almost everyone would say don't take them if you are looking for results.