Rome vs Veii - Cold Wars convention
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honvedseg
- Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
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Rome vs Veii - Cold Wars convention
I will be hosting a miniatures game at the Historical Miniature Gamers Society (hmgs.org) Cold Wars convention this weekend in Lancaster, PA, USA. The convention theme is "The Rise and Fall of Rome", and my scenario of one of the confrontations between Rome and the neighboring Etruscan city of Veii will be a theme event, using modified "Armati" rules.
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IainMcNeil
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honvedseg
- Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
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- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:12 pm
- Location: Reading, PA, USA
Rome vs Veii
Sorry to disappoint your Oracle, magobarca, but Rome squeeked this one out by a single die roll at the very end. As the Roman army surprisingly turned the one flank of the Etruscan army, the Veii center broke the Roman center. With both armies on the verge of morale failure, Rome managed to rout one Etruscan unit on the flank of the line into a second, causing the second otherwise undamaged unit to panic as well (failing a morale check by rolling a 1 on a D6 die), pushing Veii's overall morale over the brink.
We continued to resolve the turn's remaining combats in order, even though Rome had officially won, and the next melee result put the finishing touch on another Roman unit along one edge of the break in the Roman front, which would have broken the Romans' morale. Combats further down the line resulted in casualties, but no more broken units. Both armies were shattered by the end of the turn, but since Veii flinched first, Rome was technically the victor. While the Veintines were driven back to their city in full flight, the exhausted Roman army, with no remaining cavalry on the field and the center of its line gone, was in no condition to exploit its success.
After three days and over 40 hours of wargaming, GM'ing, and spending too much $ at the dealer hall and game flea market, I'm bordering on numb but happy.
We continued to resolve the turn's remaining combats in order, even though Rome had officially won, and the next melee result put the finishing touch on another Roman unit along one edge of the break in the Roman front, which would have broken the Romans' morale. Combats further down the line resulted in casualties, but no more broken units. Both armies were shattered by the end of the turn, but since Veii flinched first, Rome was technically the victor. While the Veintines were driven back to their city in full flight, the exhausted Roman army, with no remaining cavalry on the field and the center of its line gone, was in no condition to exploit its success.
After three days and over 40 hours of wargaming, GM'ing, and spending too much $ at the dealer hall and game flea market, I'm bordering on numb but happy.
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honvedseg
- Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
- Posts: 450
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:12 pm
- Location: Reading, PA, USA
Cold Wars convention
I might have enjoyed the convention just a bit more if my Etruscans had carried the field...
Out of 5 games, I was on the losing side in 5 of them. Hmmm, sounds like a trend.
BTW, if you need a replacement, oracles go for fairly cheap at the HMGS convention game flea markets, from what I understand. There were over 40 tables of people selling stuff, ranging from lead minis and old games to historical books and "clickie-base" fantasy figures. The "official" dealer hall was considerably larger, occupying and filling the Lancaster Host Resort's tennis barn, including the balcony. Now all I need to do is spend the next 15 years painting the figures and terrain pieces I already have.
Out of 5 games, I was on the losing side in 5 of them. Hmmm, sounds like a trend.
BTW, if you need a replacement, oracles go for fairly cheap at the HMGS convention game flea markets, from what I understand. There were over 40 tables of people selling stuff, ranging from lead minis and old games to historical books and "clickie-base" fantasy figures. The "official" dealer hall was considerably larger, occupying and filling the Lancaster Host Resort's tennis barn, including the balcony. Now all I need to do is spend the next 15 years painting the figures and terrain pieces I already have.
Yeah, playing the underdog is more challenging and fun. We had a little group that used the old Legion rules by FGU, and the rules lawyers and 'hard guys' would always want to take a Roman army, while others would always a Carthaginian army, and it was always hard to find people that wanted any of all the other various armies. At least one person thankfully took a Persian Achaemenid army, and I think someone took a Greek army. I was one of the Carthaginian nerds, and there were 2 of us out of about 7 players in the ongoing competition, and 2 were Romans, and I think there was 1 gallic player, can't remember.
Magobarca
Magobarca
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honvedseg
- Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
- Posts: 450
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:12 pm
- Location: Reading, PA, USA
Cold Wars
Actually, I can't call the Etruscans "underdogs", the two sides were fairly well matched, and playtest battles ended up fairly close, with the results split between them. Rome had been an Etruscan-controlled town until only a few decades before the war, so their military systems weren't that different. Rome was noted for having better-than-usual cavalry for the region and time period, although the Etruscan cities had more wealth to afford a better-armoured infantry line. A significant portion of the Roman infantry was protected by nothing better than a shield, rudimentary helmet, and a "heart protector" (provided by the state for those too poor to afford armor). This is presumed to have been a metal plate just large enough at best to have covered most of the chest from the front.
One significant difference between American game conventions and English ones is that in the States you can sign up for most games without bringing an army. The Game Host(s) provide enough material for 6, 8, or 10 players, and you can try out a game without first investing a large chunk of change for the rules and figures. English conventions appear to center around tournament play, which are "BYOA", and assume familiarity with the rules. The HMGS conventions also include tournaments for several different rules sets, most of which require your own army to participate, and familiarity with the rules in order to make it to the second round.
Other than the nail-biter ending to the Rome-Veii battle which I co-hosted, I managed to pick a losing side in 4 other multi-player mostly-historical games, including a Napoleonic naval battle (the French got fried), a WWII skirmish (we would be speaking German now), a sci-fi free-for-all (don't worry, it hasn't happened yet), and a Roman-Gallic encounter (Gaius who?).
One significant difference between American game conventions and English ones is that in the States you can sign up for most games without bringing an army. The Game Host(s) provide enough material for 6, 8, or 10 players, and you can try out a game without first investing a large chunk of change for the rules and figures. English conventions appear to center around tournament play, which are "BYOA", and assume familiarity with the rules. The HMGS conventions also include tournaments for several different rules sets, most of which require your own army to participate, and familiarity with the rules in order to make it to the second round.
Other than the nail-biter ending to the Rome-Veii battle which I co-hosted, I managed to pick a losing side in 4 other multi-player mostly-historical games, including a Napoleonic naval battle (the French got fried), a WWII skirmish (we would be speaking German now), a sci-fi free-for-all (don't worry, it hasn't happened yet), and a Roman-Gallic encounter (Gaius who?).
Yeah, not really an underdog at that time. Vei was a tough city too, and I think the last siege of it is when the Romans instituted pay for their troops, since they were getting quite peeved about always fighting Vei and others and not getting paid with the problems that caused for their families at home. I have Polybius, livy, Arrian, etc., and the early part of Roman history is covered quite well. At the last siege of Vei I believe the Romans may have been using the Camillian sysytem, can't remember off the top of my head. Interesting and fun period for games that is for sure.
I'll Gaius who won the Roman vs. Gaul game, the Romans!!!!!!!!!
I don't like conventions except to browse and occasionally take part in a game, and I don't like some of the people for various reasons.
Magobarca
I'll Gaius who won the Roman vs. Gaul game, the Romans!!!!!!!!!
I don't like conventions except to browse and occasionally take part in a game, and I don't like some of the people for various reasons.
Magobarca
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honvedseg
- Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
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- Location: Reading, PA, USA
Conventions
Of course, you always have the hamfisted player who picks up the units by the standards ("Oops, it broke!"), or sits one stand on top of the other ("Duh!"). I like to sharpen the spear points a little just to keep people like that on their toes...
We had one guy who showed up at the local games with his own cavalry, he had dipped the horses in shiny red, green and blue enamel paint so you could tell the different units apart. We could deal with that, more or less, but dropping other peoples' painted miniatures on the floor didn't win him a lot of friends.
The Roman army pay might have been instituted during the final 5 year seige of Veii. I can't picture trying to blockade an enemy city for five years without some sort of financial help for the participants.
We had one guy who showed up at the local games with his own cavalry, he had dipped the horses in shiny red, green and blue enamel paint so you could tell the different units apart. We could deal with that, more or less, but dropping other peoples' painted miniatures on the floor didn't win him a lot of friends.
The Roman army pay might have been instituted during the final 5 year seige of Veii. I can't picture trying to blockade an enemy city for five years without some sort of financial help for the participants.
Yeah, people like that and rules lawyers and pseudo-authorities and those that think gaming is the real thing etc.
It was at the siege of Veii or another southern Etruscan city where the pay was instituted: it was getting to be too much for the Roman citizen soldiers to bear economically. The near constant wars were putting too much of an economic starin on the Roman citizen soldiers. Previous to this there was no pay at all and citizens were expected to serve, as was formerly the case in the USA, and still should be IMHO.
Do you use 15mm or 25mm, maybe 6mm or 10mm figs.??? There are a lot of nice one out there.
Magobarca
It was at the siege of Veii or another southern Etruscan city where the pay was instituted: it was getting to be too much for the Roman citizen soldiers to bear economically. The near constant wars were putting too much of an economic starin on the Roman citizen soldiers. Previous to this there was no pay at all and citizens were expected to serve, as was formerly the case in the USA, and still should be IMHO.
Do you use 15mm or 25mm, maybe 6mm or 10mm figs.??? There are a lot of nice one out there.
Magobarca
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honvedseg
- Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
- Posts: 450
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:12 pm
- Location: Reading, PA, USA
Conventions
My current miniatures collection is mostly 15mm, centered around a motley assortment of Greek city-state factions and some early Republican Romans and Etruscans. In 25mm, I've been working on painting up an Assyrian army, which at the moment is in competition with Legion Arena and CoW for my limited free time.
The 15mm figs are from a wide variety of sources, including Essex, Old Glory, Museum Miniatures, Viking Forge, and a few old Minifigs, plus several that I picked up at convention flea markets and haven't figured out exactly who made them.
The 25mm Assyrians are mainly Irregular Miniatures, except for a small number of Foundry figures, and the unique medium infantry archers. Those are some sort of "Frankenfigures" that I cobbled together from bits and pieces of skirmish archers and medium spearmen to create a hybrid combination I couldn't buy. The Assyrians are one of the few decent figure lines that Irregular makes, most of their stuff looks like it was sculpted out of bread dough.
The 15mm figs are from a wide variety of sources, including Essex, Old Glory, Museum Miniatures, Viking Forge, and a few old Minifigs, plus several that I picked up at convention flea markets and haven't figured out exactly who made them.
The 25mm Assyrians are mainly Irregular Miniatures, except for a small number of Foundry figures, and the unique medium infantry archers. Those are some sort of "Frankenfigures" that I cobbled together from bits and pieces of skirmish archers and medium spearmen to create a hybrid combination I couldn't buy. The Assyrians are one of the few decent figure lines that Irregular makes, most of their stuff looks like it was sculpted out of bread dough.
Guys
Thought it might be of interest
I will be taking part in The British Historical Games Society Wargames event the BHGS Challenge in Ascot next week end
www.bhgs.co.uk
I'm using a medieval Portuguese army:-)
Regards
JDM
Thought it might be of interest
I will be taking part in The British Historical Games Society Wargames event the BHGS Challenge in Ascot next week end
www.bhgs.co.uk
I'm using a medieval Portuguese army:-)
Regards
JDM
Hi Honvedseg,
Thanx for the info.
That's what's fun about miniatures, creating unique units from bits and pieces, scratchbuilding or converting etc. I am not a great modeller or painter but can or could do some decent things.
Hi jdm,
Interesting army the Portugese. Not that it means anything, but the Italian/Sicillian side of my family is also Portugese in that my grandfather was of Portugese descent or extraction. have fun at the convention.
Magobarca
Thanx for the info.
That's what's fun about miniatures, creating unique units from bits and pieces, scratchbuilding or converting etc. I am not a great modeller or painter but can or could do some decent things.
Hi jdm,
Interesting army the Portugese. Not that it means anything, but the Italian/Sicillian side of my family is also Portugese in that my grandfather was of Portugese descent or extraction. have fun at the convention.
Magobarca
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honvedseg
- Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
- Posts: 450
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:12 pm
- Location: Reading, PA, USA
Historical game convention
jdm, I'd gladly show up for the convention, except that my van won't make it there. It seems that the wipers aren't designed to handle a couple thousand feet of water, along with a few other such minor details.
One of these days I'll have to post a shot of my hybrid cut-and-paste Assyrians, meanwhile, here's a link to a few figures from one of my 15mm Greek factions.
One of these days I'll have to post a shot of my hybrid cut-and-paste Assyrians, meanwhile, here's a link to a few figures from one of my 15mm Greek factions.