Does the AI cheat?

[JayRaider]

Hi.
I watched a video on Youtube of FOG:Empires and the player thinks that the AI cheats.
For example; he wanted to attack a neighbouring state which had a large army. The enemy army had units like heavy infantry but didn't have the necessary buildings or resources to field such units.
Does the AI produce these units without the necessary requirements?
Thanks for your reply.

[devoncop]

Hi.
I watched a video on Youtube of FOG:Empires and the player thinks that the AI cheats.
For example; he wanted to attack a neighbouring state which had a large army. The enemy army had units like heavy infantry but didn't have the necessary buildings or resources to field such units.
Does the AI produce these units without the necessary requirements?
Thanks for your reply.

The AI and the player both start with experienced units that in many cases cannot be replaced until the relevant buildings are built so it is important to preserve these initial units as much as possible until the ability to replace them is developed.

I am sure the you Tuber failed to note he was gaining from the same arrangement at the beginning of the game though in his own army

The other possibility of course if later in game is that the requisite building had been in place in a region but that the region had been raided and the building destroyed.

As so often with criticism regarding balance it is a case of being unfamiliar with the game which is understandable given how new it is even to those given advanced copies.

[JayRaider]

Thats great news.
Thanks for the quick reply.

[devoncop]

Thats great news.
Thanks for the quick reply.

No problem

[Beorn]

Also, 4.1 of the manual explains what sorts of advantages the AI gets above the easiest difficulty setting.

Are these cheats? Whether AI advantages (or human disadvantages) are cheats is really in the eye of the beholder.

Some of the game systems here are very complex, and I'll go out on a limb here and say no one is able to program game AI that handles the intersection of complex systems as well as the human mind can, particularly once the human gains experience at the game. So, from what I gather from the manual, higher difficulty levels allow the AI to escape some of the consequences of not managing the complexities competently. My guess is that some people will experience this as annoying, while others will just appreciate that it keeps the game compelling for a longer time.

However, 4.1.3 of manual also makes clear that you can always switch factions within the game. Not only is that a really excellent feature, but its existence strongly implies that nothing too egregious is going on in terms of AI cheats, because most such things would be exposed if you were to switch factions and look around a bit.

My guess is that you are reacting to Arch Warhammer's updated review (July 7). Personally, I am much more concerned about his critique of the lack of control the player has, both in planning buildings and in dealing with culture/decadence. The former, I suspect will largely be addressed by a wiki and/or player guides.

But the latter could be a problem. Most such games give the player way too much control, to the point that all sense of history is lost and it just feels like toying with game mechanics. However, Arch Warhammer felt that this game goes to the other extreme, where some factions almost cannot fail in this culture/decadence area, while others almost cannot succeed. Hopefully, this is his lack of experience, and their are reasonably effective ways to combat such challenges facing your nation.

[loki100]

Hi.
I watched a video on Youtube of FOG:Empires and the player thinks that the AI cheats.
For example; he wanted to attack a neighbouring state which had a large army. The enemy army had units like heavy infantry but didn't have the necessary buildings or resources to field such units.
Does the AI produce these units without the necessary requirements?
Thanks for your reply.

worth also noting that some factions get access to some units more easily than others.

So for example, to raise mercenaries, almost everyone needs a particular building, lack this and you can't have them. Carthage doesn't have this precondition so can raise mercenaries as it wants/where it wants. Rome gets HI (as the legion) without the precondition of the barracks.

There are others in the game, so yes, sometimes a faction will deploy something that it lacks the usual preconditions for.

And, as Devoncop mentioned, many at-start armies have 1 or 2 units you can't actually build. So cherish them, till you can.

Worth stressing these are faction advantages not AI advantages.

[loki100]

...

My guess is that you are reacting to Arch Warhammer's updated review (July 7). Personally, I am much more concerned about his critique of the lack of control the player has, both in planning buildings and in dealing with culture/decadence. The former, I suspect will largely be addressed by a wiki and/or player guides.

But the latter could be a problem. Most such games give the player way too much control, to the point that all sense of history is lost and it just feels like toying with game mechanics. However, Arch Warhammer felt that this game goes to the other extreme, where some factions almost cannot fail in this culture/decadence area, while others almost cannot succeed. Hopefully, this is his lack of experience, and their are reasonably effective ways to combat such challenges facing your nation.

I'm not sure I buy his claims. Yes, you can't chose the perfect building for that region this turn, but you can see the full range of what might come up say as a commerce building, and you have the reshuffle option. So if you really want something, shuffle till it appears. In general, you need to think about your building strategy and the way it intersects with trade but you get a feel for this early on. Couple of egs. In the playthrough in the manual the Roman player built something that is expensive till flax is available - well that is a level 1 agriculture building and it'll pop up in the trade range pretty soon. Other buildings need fish to really work, again there is a fish building that will come up soon enough. Now first time around this might be a bit tricky to work out, after a few tests it becomes second nature. But this is part of why we put the list of trade goods into the manual so you have a reference to help with this sort of planning.

re decadence, again there is a problem in the early game for some factions. I've just done a test with the Belgae and spent 80 years as old/decadent (the beer consumption was truely impressive). Still ended up ruler of Gaul and Britain. In effect, some tribal nations you may have to accept slipping into old (at least) due to other demands. Equally its very hard to avoid as Antiochus, you have a tough start and dedicating pop to culture may not be feasible. On the other hand, many testers have found Macedonia a relatively easy start (it has a nasty kick back later on due to the way that age relates to decadence). Key here, I think, is the game is not balanced, there are easier and harder factions, equally some get a nice start (all things being equal) and some are a real challenge to get established (try playing one of the German tribes with the clans/infighting trait).

In-game there is a rough and ready guide to the factions, its subjective but its a numeric score for challenge/interest and some quick play notes - that might help with faction selection.

[Beorn]

Regarding the buildings, I don't think his point was so much that you lack choice in buildings. I think it is the lack of transparency in where buildings head you, a sort of tech tree where if you see that your goal is to accomplish X, you have an idea how to work towards X.

But I don't take this criticism too seriously because I think there will soon by a wiki or guide to give that kind of info.

And limits on choice in buildings strikes me as a good thing, because it creates different situations each playthrough. I very much like factors which randomize.

As to the culture/decadence, I'll just have to wait and see what I think. I don't want balanced, but I don't want assurance that if I just follow a certain path I'll succeed, but I do want some sense of agency.

[jimwinsor]

Regarding the buildings, I don't think his point was so much that you lack choice in buildings. I think it is the lack of transparency in where buildings head you, a sort of tech tree where if you see that your goal is to accomplish X, you have an idea how to work towards X.

But I don't take this criticism too seriously because I think there will soon by a wiki or guide to give that kind of info.

Indeed!

[delastone]

There is apparently one good game guide that will be published.

you can see a sneak preview here : https://steamcommunity.com/app/1011390/ ... 927808211/

and Pocus comment :

"Read it from the first page to the last, and that's a very good guide. He did not copy paste the buildings descriptions, but instead provided his view on how to make use and combos the 400 or so structures of the game."

[Morbio]

There is apparently one good game guide that will be published.

you can see a sneak preview here : https://steamcommunity.com/app/1011390/ ... 927808211/

and Pocus comment :

"Read it from the first page to the last, and that's a very good guide. He did not copy paste the buildings descriptions, but instead provided his view on how to make use and combos the 400 or so structures of the game."

Did you know or notice that the guide is published by the same person who posted immediately before you in this thread? I suspect that was what the wink was for

[jimwinsor]

There is apparently one good game guide that will be published.

you can see a sneak preview here : https://steamcommunity.com/app/1011390/ ... 927808211/

and Pocus comment :

"Read it from the first page to the last, and that's a very good guide. He did not copy paste the buildings descriptions, but instead provided his view on how to make use and combos the 400 or so structures of the game."

Did you know or notice that the guide is published by the same person who posted immediately before you in this thread? I suspect that was what the wink was for