Morale double drop from retrograde move?

[batesmotel]

In FoG TT you normally couldn't get a double drop in cohesion level from failing a single cohesion test except for losing badly in combat or from seeing routs or a general die. I had a Thracian peltast unit that I believe was above 75% (shot a couple times by a unit of LI) and that did not have a threatened flank except possibly by the LI unit. When it backed up it double dropped from normal to fragmented. IS this intended to be allowed in FoG II? IF so, it is definitely different from the original miniature rules. The manual seems unclear about when a double drop can occur other than it won't in combat if you don't lose very badly and can't occur from shooting.

Chris

[rbodleyscott]

All cohesion tests other than for shooting or a minor combat loss can result in a double drop.

From the manual: " If a unit fails it drops a cohesion level, and can sometimes drop two levels if the score is bad enough. (It cannot double drop from shooting, nor from close combat unless it lost badly)."

The tabletop rules did not allow fall-back moves at all, so had no rules for such a test.

Historically sometimes an (attempted) deliberate retreat turned into a rout. (Which would represent a triple drop!).

We never claimed that the FOG2 rules were identical to the tabletop rules. They differ in several respects. (And, of course, the tabletop rules have now gone through 3 editions, so are something of a moving target).

FOG2 can be thought of as another edition of the tabletop rules, diverging down a different path from that taken by the later editions of the tabletop rules.

[batesmotel]

How low does a cohesion test result have to be to causes a double drop in cases where it can occur? I assume a triple drop from a single test isn't a possible result or will a low enough score cause that?

Chris

[rbodleyscott]

How low does a cohesion test result have to be to causes a double drop in cases where it can occur?

Currently the score has to get down to 2 or less.

After the next patch close combat tests will have to go down to 1 or less (but others still 2 or less because they have less negative modifiers). This change is principally intended to give spearmen more of a chance against impact foot.

I assume a triple drop from a single test isn't a possible result or will a low enough score cause that?

No, we don't have triple drops from a cohesion test. (Although of course a triple drop can occur if a unit autodrops from being charged in the flank, and then double drops from the post-combat cohesion test)

[76mm]

After the next patch close combat tests will have to go down to 1 or less (but others still 2 or less because they have less negative modifiers). This change is principally intended to give spearmen more of a chance against impact foot.

This is good news indeed, too many double breaks is probably my biggest gripe against this game.

[MikeC_81]

Bear i mind double drops are quite rare in general. An average steady unit, suffers double drops 1 in 36 times if all it is doing is backing up.

If you are suffering a lot of double drops, it is usually a result of additional negative modifiers in place such as exposed flanks/rear and or the unit already being depleted or in a negative morale state. These are things a player must always take into account when making decisions.

[Holien]

Bear i mind double drops are quite rare in general. An average steady unit, suffers double drops 1 in 36 times if all it is doing is backing up.

If you are suffering a lot of double drops, it is usually a result of additional negative modifiers in place such as exposed flanks/rear and or the unit already being depleted or in a negative morale state. These are things a player must always take into account when making decisions.

I wish it was rare I have seen this happen in two games and it is a tad annoying when you seem to have a good chance for a charge and you lose and the Lancers drop to Fragmented in one go... Soooo Painful...

[Holien]

Joy so another way of double dropping is watching some friends break. So that is secone time in the same game where I moved troops back and went to Frag'd and now just being close to a unit I go from normal to Frag'd...

I guess this is just poor luck...

[SunnyLeslie]

Bear i mind double drops are quite rare in general. An average steady unit, suffers double drops 1 in 36 times if all it is doing is backing up.

If you are suffering a lot of double drops, it is usually a result of additional negative modifiers in place such as exposed flanks/rear and or the unit already being depleted or in a negative morale state. These are things a player must always take into account when making decisions.

I wish it was rare I have seen this happen in two games and it is a tad annoying when you seem to have a good chance for a charge and you lose and the Lancers drop to Fragmented in one go... Soooo Painful...

I am very worried about random values. When the result of a game battle depends not only on your stats, but in many respects on what the damage spread will be.

[SimonLancaster]

I think it is part of the game. Double drops are quite rare but they happen.

Sometimes you get unlucky rolls. I had my Highly Superior Teutonic Knights drop to disrupted on the first charge v some enemy knights. They then went to fragmented on the next turn. Gone in three turns! It makes the game more realistic and unpredictable. Not like chess as a veteran once said to me.

[Holien]

Yep no problem with dropping over two turns, but double on same roll takes your breath away and is no fun. It is what it is..

Not had any recently but the uck up fairy will have seen this and touch me with her fairy dust..

[SunnyLeslie]

I think it is part of the game. Double drops are quite rare but they happen.

Sometimes you get unlucky rolls. I had my Highly Superior Teutonic Knights drop to disrupted on the first charge v some enemy knights. They then went to fragmented on the next turn. Gone in three turns! It makes the game more realistic and unpredictable. Not like chess as a veteran once said to me.

It annoys me a little, because the strength of the army seems to match, but there are ridiculous losses. I understand that this is random, but it's very nice when random is on the player's side.