Explain like I'm five: supplies, top to bottom

[apostrophefz]

Hello all.

First, I find the implementation of the supplies system great, gives a whole new strategic layer to this kind of game. But... I'd like to know more about, beyond capturing cities and parking ships next to my dominated territory. When I press space bar, and all those numbers and arrows, I don't know how to interpret that, and I think I'm missing out on something important. Especially when you take it to the offensive, as in the use of strategic bombers and units that sabotage supplies.

Also, how does efficiency works? Is it tied to supplies?

I suppose all this would come with experience, but I haven't bought any campaigns yet, having only played the tutorial.

[Andy2012]

Hello all.

First, I find the implementation of the supplies system great, gives a whole new strategic layer to this kind of game. But... I'd like to know more about, beyond capturing cities and parking ships next to my dominated territory. When I press space bar, and all those numbers and arrows, I don't know how to interpret that, and I think I'm missing out on something important. Especially when you take it to the offensive, as in the use of strategic bombers and units that sabotage supplies.

Also, how does efficiency works? Is it tied to supplies?

I suppose all this would come with experience, but I haven't bought any campaigns yet, having only played the tutorial.

First, there is a manual. Reading helps.

Second, efficiency is about everything that makes a unit, well, efficient. Imagine being bombarded, starved and without ammunition (infantry) or without fuel and lubricants (tanks) - you are not going to storm any beaches this way. Suppressing an enemy unit or cutting off its supply will win the battle. Capturing cities is secondary in OoB, capturing supply is important.
Strategic bombers and supply busters are usually something you need to consider after mastering the basics. No offense. Just keep asking and reading (!).

[apostrophefz]

I've read it. I'm looking for more instructive, thorough pointers, from player to player.

[PoorOldSpike]

..When I press space bar, and all those numbers and arrows, I don't know how to interpret that..

It's simple maths, I'm a maths dummy but have somehow managed to understand it..
Here's a basic set of tutorial screenshots which I just set up in the editor-

A- Hitting Space shows that this supply base can provide 10 points worth of supply (the big white '10').
The green '+10' shows that no unit is drawing supply from this base at the moment.

B- I place an infantry unit on the map, the arrowed number has got nothing to do with supply, that's it's combat strength.

C- I now hit Space. notice the arrowed number '3' on the unit means the unit is eating up 3 points worth of supply.
Therefore the green number has changed to '+7' (3 from 10 =7, gettit?)

D- I place a second unit on the map, both units are eating a total of 6 supply points so the green number has dropped to +4

E- I place a third unit on the map, they eat 9 points of supply, so the green number has dropped to +1.
DON'T WORRY! As long as the number is green it means all the units are being fully supplied.

F- I now place a fourth unit and bellies begin rumbling because the 4 units need a total of 12 supply points, but the base can only supply 10.
That's why the green number has now turned to an ominous red -2 to warn us.
Also note a yellow dot (arrowed) has appeared on each unit, warning us that their supply level has gone into the red.

G- And because it's in the red, they're not getting enough supplies so their 'Efficiency' rating (circled) has dropped to 8 instead of a fullstrength 10.
Low efficiency means units don't perform so well in combat.
And apart from low supplies, efficiency can also drop if a unit is fatigued with combat like Andy said, so pull them back to rest for a couple of turns.

I hope that explains it, it's simple maths like I said, and in big scenarios there are supply bases all over the place but as long as their numbers stay green there's nothing to worry about..

[apostrophefz]

...

Thanks for your response, mate. Indulge me some more please:


https://imgur.com/a/pnrQ0

- The guys at Istonki are cut off, correct, from my main territory to the east? The units in that territory are being unsatisfyingly provided by that one station. Bridging the territory to the east would flood it with surplus, right? Suppose it is reconnected, at what rate does efficiency replenishes?
- Still on isolated Istonki: if it were to be hit by a strategic bomber, would the stranded units be hurt even further?
- That neighbor soviet town, near Istonki, I can't see the supply it provides, even with a unit standing next to it. Is there a way to gather intel on it?
- Do roads affect supply flow? Stationing a unit between towns affect the supply in any way?

Seeing my bigger territory to the east, I understand now that each depot shows the sum of all of them combined, being inside the same unified border.

Thanks in advance.

[PoorOldSpike]

-The guys at Istonki are cut off, correct, from my main territory to the east?...Bridging the territory to the east would flood it with surplus, right?
Suppose it is reconnected, at what rate does efficiency replenishes?
- Still on isolated Istonki: if it were to be hit by a strategic bomber, would the stranded units be hurt even further?
- That neighbor soviet town, near Istonki, I can't see the supply it provides, even with a unit standing next to it. Is there a way to gather intel on it?
- Do roads affect supply flow? Stationing a unit between towns affect the supply in any way?

1- Yes, connecting the Istonki area to the fertile land of milk and honey on the right would see supplies flood in.
(Incidentally I don't know why Istonki is in the red, are there some units not in the picture that it's trying to supply? What's the name of the scenario?)
2- On the turn any supply connection is made, unit efficiency starts to automatically recover; it takes several turns for it to recover fully providing it's left in peace.
3- Yes, Strategic bombers damage a base's storage warehouses making it unable to supply as many units as before, but if the enemy has plenty of supply bases Strat bombing won't hurt his overall supply network very much. See this Strat Bomber thread-
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=264&t=83099
4- You can only see the big white number on enemy supply bases, not the green number because its a state secret unless you capture it.
5- The game uses all terrain types to send supplies through, so roads make no difference.

Here are some actual combat screenshots from a Morning Sun scenario I played just the other day called 'Xuzhou', (please don't ask me how to pronounce it.)
PIC 1- My japs have advanced along the red arrows and the two on the extreme left are the spearhead (red circled), and the supply status of everybody is fine and dandy at the moment.(The supply base is one of several, there are others nearby boosting it's green number)
There are two Chinese units (blue circles) in this sector, what could possibly go wrong?..



PIC 2- Oops, the Chinese advance and cut my supply line, pocketing my two spearhead units, what cheek!
Notice the spearheads strength numbers have now turned a sickly orange denoting an efficiency drop, and a dreaded red dot has appeared next to the numbers, denoting they're completely out of supply!



PIC 3- No sweat, over the next couple of turns my tanks simply advance to open up a supply line to the pocket (notice that the dreaded red dot on the spearhead units has now disappeared because they're back in supply), and from this point on their efficiency will begin climbing every turn.
(god I just LURV them big jap Type 96 tanks, they're built like sumo wrestlers)..
(PS- I went on to slaughter the two Chinese and continued my advance to the gates of Xuzhou city a few miles to the southwest but ran out of steam and couldn't batter my way in and I lost the game. Confucius he say- "You ain't coming in here mate")

[apostrophefz]

Outstanding, mate. Thanks a lot for the explanation.

Do you have other tips regarding the supply mechanic, on the offensive or defensive? maybe some dirty tactics?

What units are critically dependant on supplies? Recon units don't use supply, right, so they can't get stranded?

I suppose when you park a supply ship to a beach you have there a ad hoc supply depot, correct?

[stan23]

Allright
I have been looking for something like this explanation regarding supply myself.
PoorOldSpike 'Well done, sir. Very well done!'
There should be a "Newcomers Corner" thread with exactly this type of info in it.
I am not ashamed to say that the lack of understanding about the supply system was frustrating the crap out of me.

[PoorOldSpike]

Do you have other tips regarding the supply mechanic, on the offensive or defensive? maybe some dirty tactics?
What units are critically dependant on supplies? Recon units don't use supply, right, so they can't get stranded?
I suppose when you park a supply ship to a beach you have there a ad hoc supply depot, correct?

Firstly, I've only had OOB for less than 6 months so I'm by no means an expert, but hopefully the old hands will correct me if they spot a blooper..

1- the supply system is pretty straightforward because it's based on simple maths and we can't argue with the numbers. The only tactic I can think of is perfectly legit, namely we can try to cut off his supply lines just like he tries to cut off ours!
As a great prophet once said-
"If sumbody messes wid me, I'm a-gonna mess wid him!"- Al Capone


2- As far as I know, all units depend equally on supplies no matter what unit they are, except Recons like you said which don't need supply, neither do Recon aircraft.

3- And yes, you know ships provide supply so you're on the ball..
However, big ships (Battleships/Cruisers/Carriers) can't get into shallow water to unload supplies, they need a port.
Below are some ships that can get into shallow water to unload, and the white numbers denote the amount of supply each will provide. For example a white '20' means it can supply 6 x standard infantry units on shore because each infantry needs 3 supply points, it's simple maths again..
(Tip: if there's a port available, use it because it doubles the amount of supplies a ship will unload there)
Warning: In some scenarios the japs fly suicide planes into our supply ships and drive small suicide speedboats into them, what cheek!
(PS- If men ashore have a supply shortage we can buy a bunch of cheap gunboats (if we have the funds) to provide emergency supply)

[Skylar27]

Thanks Spike for this explanation for I too had no idea how the supply system worked

[apostrophefz]

Amazing, OldSpike. Thanks a lot.

This supply system takes OOB above other turn based games. Gives it a rare strategical depth.

Still on the subject: what units hurt supply? I know Strategic bombers do when hit depots. I don't remember, but paratroopers have a sabotage ability? How does it work? I'd very much likfe if there was an OOB wikia. Are there other commando units?

What about air supply? I know that planes don't crash when out of fuel, like in Panzercorps. What happens when you lose airports, still with your own planes in the air?

[PoorOldSpike]

Still on the subject: what units hurt supply? I know Strategic bombers do when hit depots. I don't remember, but paratroopers have a sabotage ability? How does it work? I'd very much likfe if there was an OOB wikia. Are there other commando units?
What about air supply? I know that planes don't crash when out of fuel, like in Panzercorps. What happens when you lose airports, still with your own planes in the air?

1- Best way to hurt a supply depot is to kill whatever's in there and simply waltz in to occupy it yourself with any ground unit (but recons can't capture it), then not only do you deprive the enemy of the supply it provides, but you add its supply points to your own supply pool haha.
2- As for commandos and paras, I intend exploring their capabilities in future tests, and will also do more airfield tests, meanwhile here are some more tests I ran today-

AIRFIELD SUPPLY
Top pic-Airfields provide supply for aircraft only. This one is supplying 3 airborne aircraft. The supply base on the right is only supplying ground units.
Second pic- I placed a fourth plane to show how it's drained the supply into the red-




Below: I've removed the fourth plane to stop it cluttering up the test.The red-arrowed numbers to the right of the strength are 'endurance' numbers that indicate how many turns the plane can stay in the air before running out of fuel and crashing.
For example here on turn 1 the Spitfire can only stay up for 8 turns, but the bombers can stay up longer.
The next pic is turn 8, note how the Spit's endurance number has dropped to '0' because it's running on fumes.
Note too how the other two aircraft's endurance figures have dropped-



The good news is that we get plenty of warning when a planes fuel is running low (IF we've selected the 'Aircraft Low Fuel' warning option in Preferences).
Firstly hexes turn red as below, and that warning message comes up-



Below- More good news is that planes might run on fumes for another few turns (note how it's strength is dropping from the original 10 to 1), so if we don't land it now to refuel it's dead meat. To demonstrate what happens, I won't land the Spit.
Bottom pic- People are running on the pitch, they think it's all over! It is now!!! The Spits tanks finally run dry and it crashes with a bloodcurdling screaming death dive.
Summary- The low fuel warnings are very useful, they seem to do the maths for us by using a formula linked to how far away the nearest airfield is and warn us in good time so that we have time to fly there.


BTW, when buying planes in the game it's important to know what their endurances are, for example we might want to spend a few more pennies on a machine that's got a good endurance figure, but that isn't shown on the purchase screen grrr..
So Mojko's excellent Unit Navigator Tool-
http://mfendek.byethost16.com/
is a great way to find out (below, right), the endurance figure is second from the right of the top row in this example (the barrel with '7' under it)-

[apostrophefz]

Thank you again Professor Spike!

[stan23]

Damn Spike, they should have included you in the writing of the manual.
I have learned more about the intricacies of the game from your few threads and post than studying the manual itself (and I have read the manual several times, front to back)
Way to go!

[PoorOldSpike]

Thanks guys, and just to clarify- all my tests are literally bang up to the minute with OOB vanilla version 5.2.9, with no mods or file tweaks of any kind so that we all know exactly where we are..
"I am constant as the northern star.."
-Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, Act 3 sc 1

[PoorOldSpike]

AIRFIELD GETTING OVERUN...
A- the US planes are in the air.
B- A panzer trundles onto their airfield.
C- And the red warning hexes appear when you click on a plane, and all the planes efficiency (red circle) begins to drop.
D- And this warning comes up when I try to end the turn.
Result- the planes all crash when they run out of fuel because they've got nowhere to land (unless your ground units have recaptured the field in time).



HOWEVER...
Below: in this next test I've placed a second airfield on the right, so even though the panzer overruns the first field again, it has absolutely no effect on the planes because they can simply use the other field. In fact there are usually more than one field in most OOB scens, so losing a single field is usually not a serious thing. Also some scens have exit hexes on the map edge where planes can refuel and repair. And if there are carriers in the scen, carrier planes can use them.



Below: A HANGAR FULL OF AIRCRAFT IS ATTACKED
This is (gulp) serious stuff!
A- Three US planes have landed and are in the hangar when a panzer shows up.
B- It fires and inflicts 7 points of damage with its first shot.
C- note the hangar strength has dropped from 10 to 3, AND the strength of all the aircraft inside has also dropped to 3.
D- With its second shot the panzer finishes off the hangar and all the planes inside.
E- And it trundles onto the airfield to capture it. The Germans can now use the field for their own planes.
Note- hangars can also be attacked by bombers, artillery, naval bombardment and infantry etc.

[apostrophefz]

Godspeed, oldspike.

Do keep us posted on your findings.

[Taare]

Amazing, OldSpike. Thanks a lot.

This supply system takes OOB above other turn based games. Gives it a rare strategical depth.

Still on the subject: what units hurt supply? I know Strategic bombers do when hit depots. I don't remember, but paratroopers have a sabotage ability? How does it work? I'd very much likfe if there was an OOB wikia. Are there other commando units?

What about air supply? I know that planes don't crash when out of fuel, like in Panzercorps. What happens when you lose airports, still with your own planes in the air?

engineers,para's,seabees? and the like can destroy infrastucture, same as strategic bombing can, imho it is not worth doing it to much, as the enemy will almost always have ample supply on "their starting point" at least in campaigns.
a dirty "trick" or almost one is the enemy love cutting you of from supply, say there is a heavy infantry well entrenched and no engineers or arty nearby, if you have several units, move one so that there is one obvious way for the AI to cut it of from supply, bait him out, then you take the village or whatever, what can be useful in depleting supply if one is so inclined is to strat bomb their airfields. with lower air supply as Spike explains, efficiency goes way down.

In short, i often bait the ai cut off one of my units from supply then move to cut of theirs.

[apostrophefz]

How exactly does the paratroopers' sabotage ability work?
The unit has to be next to the target depot? How many supply points does it damage, and for how long? Does the ability has a cooldown?

[PoorOldSpike]

How exactly does the paratroopers' sabotage ability work?
The unit has to be next to the target depot? How many supply points does it damage, and for how long? Does the ability has a cooldown?

DEMOLITION TEST

A- This US Airborne unit has the 'Demolitions' trait (so do Engineers and the SAS, a quick way to find out which units in a specific scenario possess the trait is to look on the purchase screen like this)..
B- The para has arrived at this enemy supply depot..
C- He nonchalantly strolls in unopposed whistling 'Dixie' to capture it for the Allies.
D- But suppose the enemy are advancing in strength to recapture it, and he decides to blow it up to keep it out of their hands. Next turn click that exciting-looking plunger icon..
E- and click one of the arrowed hexes to give him an escape route..
F- and he wisely flees to the hex to avoid the blast..
G- The result of his handiwork; He's stripped 5 points from the supply output!
WAIT there's more good news- he can immediately go back in over the following turns and do it again and again to bring the output down to zero!