Bursting and Interpenetrating

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:49 pm

I'm sure this has been talked about before but I can't find any threads on here so I thought I would ask a quick question on interpenetration and bursting through friends?

When you burst through using the various rules for shock and non shock the distances make sense to me when bursting or interpenetrating from front to back or back to front but what about from 1 flank to the other? Does the bursting shock BG move all the way from say the left flank to the right flank and if needed pushes the burst through BG to the left to make room?

I was reading the section on this last night and this situation popped up and I can see it being an issue on the battlefield.

Thanks for any advice

Brian

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:54 am

If routers are bursting through from one flank to another then they can go a long way. It is not ideal but the alternative of routers busting partly through then stopping in the middle and bursting through again the next round is rather more silly.

Shock troops bursting through will only ever move their correct move and the troops being burst through get moved back behind the chargers.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:25 pm

Thanks for the reply Hammy,

I just thought I would ask as I can see a battle with say Gauls, you have a BG of 8 bases of LF in a line. A cavalry BG wants to move to the opposite flank so it interpenetrates the LF and moves all the way through rather than move in the open behind the LF. It just seems like it can potentially be used in a gamey way (FOG Wormhole). But I understand as well that alternative solutions could be just as silly or worse.

I wrote burst above but upon reflection it would probably be a very rare situation having a shock BG burst through the flank of a friend.

Thanks

Brian

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:30 pm

Yes the interpenetration one is potentially silly but so far I have not seen anyone really exploiting it.

There was a similar problem in DBM where you could move a double base of knights more than twice it's move by interpenetrating a base of light foot (psiloi).

This issue was noted in playtest but no better solution appeared prior to publication.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:19 pm

I am glad FOG is handling things the way it does as it seems to be a nice balance between perceived realism and playability. I like realism but I like to be able to play a game without my head hurting too much too. Glad to hear too that this is not exploited on the tournament front.

I am considering not allowing this type of move unless it is done within a certain proximity to the enemy so as to not allow a slingshot effect. I hope it will never come up either but if it does I'll just rule, the BG moving must take the path of least resistance. And I'm talking more when BGs move from one side to the other. I think BGs near combats will be a little more cautious and move front and back with some wheeling or shifting as allowed.

I hope by disallowing a cheese move like that is in keeping with the spirit and intent of the rule.

Brian

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:31 pm

BrianC wrote: I hope by disallowing a cheese move like that is in keeping with the spirit and intent of the rule.

I don't think anyone would have an issue with that in a friendly game but in a tournament it might be an issue as the rules do 'allow' the move.

We had a very odd one in a game in Scotland at the weekend. We had a BG of 10 mob who mananged to form into a column to avoid a routing BG of better equiped slaves. The problem was that the evil Romans managed to stop chasing the beaten slaves and charged the side of the mob. As the Romans had to wheel and were within 1MU at the start of their charge it didn't count as a flank charge. The Romans hit the 8th base in the column and the proceeded to flip 10 MU back towards the fighting to line up with the front of the mob. It was a little strange but didn't materially effect the game.

zoltan · Post by **zoltan** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:26 pm

Knights screened by friendly LF approach the enemy battle line. Can the knights "voluntarily" burst through by NOT taking a CMT to prevent shock troops charging? Or can the knights ONLY burst through the LF if they CMT not to charge and fail that test?

BillMc · Post by **BillMc** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:42 pm

Its an involuntary charge that can only be prevented by CMT so you have to fail a CMT to do it. You can't voluntarily charge through.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:35 pm

I have only ever come across the situation once in a game. I decided to shift a base width rather than let my Cavalry, as the rules allow, interpenetrate 160mm of LF on top of their already moved 50mm

Bursting and Interpenetrating

Bursting and Interpenetrating

Voluntarily Bursting Through