Brand new to FoG - need a bit of army advice please

melekoftd · Post by **melekoftd** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:34 am

Hi folks,

I am brand new to FoG and indeed to historical wargaming (unless you generously count Flames of War as a historical wargame).

The local club has about twenty players, all using 800 point armies in 25mm scale. I'm thinking I would quite like to try my hand at Later Medieval Scots (Britain) as this allows me to recreate battles that my ancestors were at.

To this end, I have drawn up this army list - but I am not sure if it'll work or not. Please have a look and let me know what you think - I'll be grateful for any advice around composition as I don't know the fundamentals and "must-haves/must-do's" yet.

============================

800 point Later Medieval Scots (Britain), based on the Battle of Otterburn c.1388, p24 Storm of Arrows

Earl James Douglas, C-in-C, Field Commander (50)
- BG #1: Spearmen, 10 bases (70)
- BG #2: Spearmen, 10 bases (70)
- BG #3: Spearmen, 8 bases (56)
- BG #4: Archers (Average, Light), 4 Bases (24)
- BG #5: Archers (Average, Light), 4 Bases (24)

Sir James Lyndsay, Troop Commander (35)
- BG #1: Spearmen, 8 bases (56)
- BG #2: Spearmen, 8 bases (56)
- BG #3: Light Guns, 2 bases (30)
- BG #4: Bombards, 2 bases (40)

Sir John Gordon, Troop Commander (35)
- BG #1: Men-at-arms (Knights), 4 Bases (72)
- BG #2: Archers (Average, Light), 4 bases (24)

Sir Graeme, Troop Commander allied Highlanders (25)
- BG #1: Highlanders, 8 bases (64)
- BG #2: Highlanders, 8 bases (64)

TOTAL 795

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:24 am

First a quick point that you don't have to allocate troops to commanders - other than allies - as any commander can influence them. Of course you may have just set out the army this way for colour/history but I thought it worth mentioning.

Second I don't think you need the FC, a TC will do just as well for this army.

Third I'm not convinced that either the knights or artillery are actually that useful for the Scots and would look to more Spearmen and maybe another Highlanders BG.

melekoftd · Post by **melekoftd** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:20 pm

Thanks for that Nik.

With allied troops, does their commander come from my list allotment? For example with allied Highlanders I can have a Troop Commander for 25 points but does he count towards my 0-3 for my list, or is he considered additional since he can only influence his own troops?

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:18 am

You can only have a maximum of four generals.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:20 am

Also the spears work better in BGs of 10 deployed on a frontage of 4 bases with 2 'spares'

IIRC this list can have longbow swordsmen, if so they are well worth including. If you want to avoid them for historicall reasons (perfectly reasonable IMO) then your light foot bow BGs are really rather too small. BGs of 4 light foot tend to do little if any good.

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:16 am

Having used this army a fair bit in 15mm here are my comments:

Drop the Highlanders - they add little to the army! If you are desperate to use them for Historical reasons then....

Use the Bowmen as Protected, Longbow, Swordsmen. I think this means you can't have the French, but these troops are crucial to contest rough going.

Make the Black Douglas Inspired - he can drive forward a whole wall of Spearmen single handedly. With all those average troops, the +2 to a Cohestion Test within 12" is critical.

Spearmen work best in 10's. However, you also want some 6's to provide rear support behind. You need these in a ratio of 2:1 with the 6's operating in the "join" behind the 10's.

In 25mm this is a fearsome army.... If you forget the Battle of Otterburn

then I would go for:

IC + 3 TC's (185)
72 Spearmen, Protected, Average, Undrilled, Offensive Spearmen (6x10, 2x6)
12 Longbowmen, Protected, Average, Undrilled, Longbow, Swordsmen (2x6)
4 Ribaulds, Unprotected, Poor, Undrilled (1x4)

11 BG's, 793 points. If we consider that a standard 6' wide table is 30 element widths you have 24 element frontage of spearmen (taking Hammy's point regarding the 442 formation) and some longbow to fill the gaps as required.

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:47 pm

I quite like the highlanders....they are very formidable troops in terrain which this army lacks otherwise.

melekoftd · Post by **melekoftd** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:09 am

Thanks guys, these comments are great!

SirGarnet · Post by **SirGarnet** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:53 am

I've only played them once - against Macedonians. Offensive Spears are all-around good troops, but Pikes and better Spears are a problem!

I took the 1385 option with the French knights (and Scots ones). I like the idea of having some Knights to make opponents nervous and cover gaps or a flank, but the French proved clumsy, fearful, inept, and faithless and made a swift departure while the Scots knights couldn't pass a CMT even if their life depended on it (which it did). Terrain, dice and failures of other troops were problems for them. If not knowing the opponent, I might take them again for competitiveness but freeing up the points to get a lot more Spears or some of the Medium Foot sounds attractive.

I find even small LF BGs useful to prevent double moves, but Longbow Swordsmen MF are nice and they or Highlanders can actually contest terrain.

There are clear virtues to 10-base Spears and 6s for rear support but in addition I went with 8s (3 wide) and considered one of the 10s going to 12 for use either 5-wide or 4-wide depending on loss absorption and frontage requirements. However, I lacked points due to the knights.

An Inspired Commander to help with CMTs and CTs is very useful for these troops, and frees up the TCs more for front rank service.

Cheers

Mike