Stalingrad/WinterStorm Scenario Oddities and Lessons Learned

[kverdon]

Going Through Panzerkreig a second time to try some different tactics using some lessons learned from the first playthrough. The highest lessons I learned and changed my Corps to accommodate were.

1. The Stug IIIF is you FRIEND. They provide great mobile AT support and do well supporting units on the attack or the center of a defensive position. Losses to enemy armor went WAY down with just 2 of these guys in the lineup.

2. Long Distance IS the best thing to being there. This time my Artillery Corps saw my 2 Wurfrahmen 40's supplemented by 17cm K 18's towed Arty. The range on these guys is fantastic. You can really "Reach out and Touch Someone". They really help in counter battery to mitigate the horde of Soviet Artillery. 2 of these guys deployed with overlapping fields of fire provide great arty support. Their range makes up for their low mobility as you just need to get them into position and can sit there a few turns and dish it out.

Onto the Stanlingrad Scenarios.

Stalingrad
I"m just not getting these 2 Stalingrad Scenarios. Not bad Scenarios in their own right but they just don't feel like Stalingrad. The Stalingrad scenario seems a bit too easy. I was able to finish it about 10 turns early and this was with me mostly ignoring the secondary victory conditons. The only one I fulfilled, and this was because it was in my best interrests to do so, was the East Bank Artillery mission. 2 hits with the 17cm K 18 followed by a Stuka strike would pretty much take them out. I did not even bother with attacking Orklovka, much less trying to take it 3 turns. I just left it alone. Same with the barges, I just let the 2 Armored Cars and a Core Inf unit mop up any that landed in the rear. The problem with the secondary victory conditions is that there is not enough of a "carrot' to take them, I found I did not need the NPC Engineer units that you get for completing the Orklovka secondary, my own units worked just fine and I guess that is what I'm missing here. One this that I enjoyed about Panzer Corps was the need to put aside some prestige so that when I got to Stalingrad, I could convert some inf units over to engineers and some Panzer III/IV's to Panzer IIINs to give me some punch in the city. This problem is that in OOB Armor suffers very little in urban fighting and your normal inf does just fine so there is just no need for specialized troops. I just divided my force into 2 groups and used one to attack the south end of the city and the other the South/Center and when these 2 joined up they just moved north and rolled up Stalingrad like a carpet. I even had a couple hundred RP left over for the next scenario.

Stalingrad Trap/Winter Storm
I still don't get this one as there are too many things that don't make sense. Yeah, you do get something later at Kursk for rescuing the 6th Army but it would be nice if you got some message in the game that the troops you rescued would be back to join you after refit and repair. There also does not seem to be any urgency to rescue the defenders, they seem to do quite fine on their own. There are a few things about this scenario that make absolutely NO sense what so ever. They are:

1. You open a supply line to Stalingrad, Big Deal! The only supply the still get is from the airlift, they should get ground supply as well.
2. Once you get one of the reinforcement events you can deploy your core forces in Stalingrad. I dropped 2 inf units in to bolster defense and help with the breakout. I was just able to start them inside the Stalingrad Perimeter. Huh? I thought they were surrounded.....
3. The only supplies your german (Kriegsmarine Flagged) defenders get is from Air Supply however, even before you open a supply corridor, you can freely resupply and reinforce any Hungarian or Player Core forces deployed in the City. There does not appear to be any limitation to their supply at all. ?????
4. There does not appear to be any incentive to rescue the Romainina Forces in the south. I've never been able to rescue more than the Tank and 2 of inf but then again, you don't need them. I just put a Tiger, a MkIV and a Stug IIIF down in the Southwest and let them dig in. Add in the Romaian Tank (R35?) and you can just let them turtle there.

[CoolDTA]

I agree with you on pretty much everything you said. StuGs and K 18s are great.

Stalingrad

Yep, it is a nice little scenario, but when you compare it to the slugfests in Panzer Corps, there's just not much challenge. Those Soviet SMG units in PC were quite frightening.

Stalingrad Trap/Winter Storm

I rescued the 6th here but got no reward later (yes, there was the green checkmark). No idea why was that. The possibility to deploy your own, supplied core units in the city must be a mistake as is the Romanian inf unit being in supply.

[Andy2012]

The problem with the secondary victory conditions is that there is not enough of a "carrot' to take them, I found I did not need the NPC Engineer units that you get for completing the Orklovka secondary, my own units worked just fine and I guess that is what I'm missing here. This problem is that in OOB Armor suffers very little in urban fighting and your normal inf does just fine so there is just no need for specialized troops. I just divided my force into 2 groups and used one to attack the south end of the city and the other the South/Center and when these 2 joined up they just moved north and rolled up Stalingrad like a carpet. I even had a couple hundred RP left over for the next scenario.

Stalingrad Trap/Winter Storm
Yeah, you do get something later at Kursk for rescuing the 6th Army but it would be nice if you got some message in the game that the troops you rescued would be back to join you after refit and repair. There also does not seem to be any urgency to rescue the defenders, they seem to do quite fine on their own. There are a few things about this scenario that make absolutely NO sense what so ever. They are:

1. You open a supply line to Stalingrad, Big Deal! The only supply the still get is from the airlift, they should get ground supply as well.
2. Once you get one of the reinforcement events you can deploy your core forces in Stalingrad. I dropped 2 inf units in to bolster defense and help with the breakout. I was just able to start them inside the Stalingrad Perimeter. Huh? I thought they were surrounded.....
3. The only supplies your german (Kriegsmarine Flagged) defenders get is from Air Supply however, even before you open a supply corridor, you can freely resupply and reinforce any Hungarian or Player Core forces deployed in the City. There does not appear to be any limitation to their supply at all. ?????

Yes, I agree with these points as well. Thinking about my Stalingrad experience, I think that I went for a lot of secondaries because I thought I might need them - which turned it too much into a grinding, dispersed assault instead of concentrating my forces and ignoring useless side goals. (Except for the artillery on the eastern shores) And the balancing / oddities in the Winterstorm mission are definitely there. Saving the 6th from annihilation would be a huge morale booster and should come with more rewards. (Or be more clearly communicated) But for a new playthrough, I think I'll wait out the next patch and read the patchnotes first.