best axis starting build order

[afk_nero]

Starting well with the Axis is very important - what I cant get right is the initial build order.

I have tried various options including -

- Put all available PP's into research
- No research but rather save up to build a half decent commander
- Save up to build a TAC bomber or Fighter

I have tried all of the above and at the moment have settled on building a TAC as the first order of business letting research suffer initialy. Any expert views on the subject?

As for tactics - I also struggle to overcome France versus another human opponent, any hints or tips would be most appreciated.

[JyriErik]

My initial build order (vs AI) is to put one point into General (concentrating on industry) on turn one. Then, repair what needs it and save up for Manstein and build him. Followed by one TAC, one Fighter, 2 more TAC. Max out research (evenly distributed, excpet that Navy gets only one (concentrate subs). Then build like crazy for Barbarossa, but wait until Russia declares war. Attacking east with level 4-6 Infantry/Motorized/Armor/Aircraft beating up on level 3 armor and level 1-2 everything else you'll usually maul the AI in Russia.

Jyri

[ErichVonNeu]

France vs a human opponent? If the opponent is any good it will take a little time. Don't rush it. build your forces befor attacking. Once you have attacked, destroy as many units as possible per turn. the allies have a weak economy, especially France, and it will be hard for them to replace losses.

If you want to invade England (sea lion) Build an additional BB or two and subs (totalt of 6-7). Use your BBs to support the invasion (supply your troops) and the subs to weaken Englands economy.

If you attack England you will spend lot's of oil and you will have to conquer the mid east to get the oil in Iran/Iraq. Then you have to build a lot of mech inf (italian) and send at least a German TAC, armor and a mech inf unit to support the Italians. Once you conquer the Suez-canal you can send the Italian subs and two BBs to the atlantic to raid the convoys and destroy or cripple the British fleet...

Good luck

[GaryChildress]

In my best game to date I used all PPs for research for the first several turns. I usually end up with 1 General lab (focus on Industry, that is my first purchase) 1 armor, 1 air and 1 infantry lab for the Germans. I completely neglected the navy. Once I get my research established, then I buy an armored unit. After that I play it by ear.

After taking Poland, I repair my units and rail transport them to get ready to attack Holland. At the same time I transport an infantry and a motorised infantry to the border with Denmark. On turn one, attack the Danes in Copenhagen with the motorised infantry. Move the German surface ship to bombard first though. On turn two attack with both the motorised infantry and foot infantry and the surface ship again. Usually Copenhagen falls within two or three turns of the DOW. Once that is done go for Scandinavia with 2 infantry and 2 motorised infantry korps. Meanwhile EVERYTHING else available should be thrown into the battle for France and the low countries. As soon as France is taken, move everthing to the Russian border to attack Russia when they join the Allies. (I don't declare war on them but wait for them to join the Allies. Up until that moment I'm buying units and shipping them off to the Russian border). I haven't invaded England yet. I usually station a bunch of fighters along the French coast to wipe out the English aircraft as they place them. That way they don't get a chance to attack me with them first.

Granted I did this on the default game settings. I haven't tried the harder settings yet.

[fiskog]

...I transport an infantry and a motorised infantry to the border with Denmark. On turn one, attack the Danes in Copenhagen with the motorised infantry. Move the German surface ship to bombard first though. On turn two attack with both the motorised infantry and foot infantry and the surface ship again.

You can attack with two units on the first turn of war if they both start next to the Kiel port. Do the DOW, then load both on naval transport, then to the BB shore bombardment, then unload each and attack in turn.

[joerock22]

Be careful when invading Denmark. In a recent game, my opponent sailed the Allied navy past Copenhagen to intervene, and sunk my BB and a sub. It cost him 2 BBs, but the British can trade 1:1 naval casualties early in the war. Just a word of warning to anyone playing an experienced opponent.

[KingHunter3059]

Joe - Was Denmark in the axis hands?

Jay

[joerock22]

On his 1st turn, he moved his fleet toward Denmark to be in position when I invaded the country on turn 2. He then sailed through the Copenhagen port and attacked my BB, which had come out to bombard the city. He would have gotten away scot free, too. The only reason I sunk two of his BBs was because I committed the Luftwaffe and my subs.

[KingHunter3059]

Ahh I see - The instant they became allies, he used that as an advantage to sent ships into the Baltic sea. Smart, very Smart.

Jay

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I wonder why you need 2 turns to take Copenhagen. It's easy to get 2 corps units a BB and bombers against Copenhagen on turn 1. The key is to place a corps adjacent to the Kiel port on the turn before the invasion. After the DoW on Denmark you let your corps board a transport and NOT move it. Instead you tell the transport to disembark and now you can land in the hex SW of Copenhagen. From here you can attack Copenhagen without being hampered with -30% attack due to river crossing as the other German corps will face.

Here is how you can take out Denmark.

1. Let the BB bombard Copenhagen from the hex SE.
2. Send bombers and fighters against Copenhagen
3. Attack with the corps that was transported from Kiel
4. Move the corps adjacent to the Danish border to the hex west of Copenhagen and attack.

With this method you take out Copenhagen most of the time on the first turn. If you fail then you can just withdraw the BB and capture Copenhagen for sure on turn 2. This will close the Baltic for the Allies so the BB is safe.

The only way the Allies can inflict a lot of damage upon the German fleet is if they send the navy to the north sea (not so far from the Skagerrak) on the turn before the invasion. It means the Allies must anticipate the invasion. The Germans must also be unlucky and fail with the Danish conquest (not very likely) so the sea lane to the Baltic is still open.

But let's think about the situation with Allied warships sailing into the Baltic to destroy the German BB. OK, they get into the Baltic and sink the BB. But on turn 2 of the invasion Copenhagen falls and that closes the escape back to the North Sea again for the British warships. So the ships are stuck in the Baltic.
This means the German bombers can have a lot of fun for quite some time. So the British ships must sail up to the Gulf of Bothnia to hide. Then they will stay out of bomber range until Barbarossa, but the German subs can still hunt down the British warships.

So it's in my opinion very dangerous for the Allies to send warships into the Baltic in 1939-1940. The ships you send won't get out again.

I usually attack Copenhagen on September 20 1939 (game turn 2). I need the bombers on turn 1 to crush the Polish corps units, but on turn 2 I can spare them for Copenhagen. Britain can rarely do anything to stop this invasion. It's more likely they interfere with the invasion of Norway by landing near Bergen.

[joerock22]

I'm aware you can take Denmark in one turn, and I know all about loading the transport and unloading it for an attack in one turn. But I decided to not bother with air support this game. I wanted to get Denmark out of the way in turns 2-3, while still capturing Poland in 3 turns and RR a fighter to Essex to hit his strategic bomber on turn 1. So it was a calculated risk that he wouldn't send his navy into the Baltic, one that backfired. In my defense, in almost a dozen games as the Axis, no one had done that to me before. In the future, I will probably wait to do Denmark until I can bring adequate air support to bear.

Also, my opponent discovered a loophole in the Baltic port rule. If you have a British ship in the Copenhagen port when Denmark falls, then the waterway to the Baltic Sea stays open to Allied ships as long as that ship remains there. Don't believe me? Test it in a hotseat game like I just did. This is a bad bug, one that should be addressed in a patch or something.

[KingHunter3059]

I would concur with that - it seems like a 'backdoor' move.

Jay

[joerock22]

Well, all's fair in war, so I don't fault my opponent for taking advantage. If I was in his shoes, I might have done the same thing. I just don't think the game should allow it.

[KingHunter3059]

Interesting - I suppose it was a good move. But with all that is stacked against Germany, this may have been over kill.

Jay