Mobile AA like Whirbelwind should be stronger on ground

[GiveWarAchance]

.

[JagdpanzerIV]

because a sherman or a Pz IV with a 75mm gun and 3 mgs can do just as much vs infantry if not better, while having more protection.
Also, a wirblewind just got a shield for the crew protection which was 10mm thick, so basically, any anti tank weapon would go thru that shield like butter.

in the AA role 37mm were better than 20mm, and only 86 wirblewind were built, making them irrelevant to the war effort. the production stopped in november 44 and priority was given to mobile 37mm AA gun. Like the mobelwagen...

Anyhow, you can use an editor and change the numbers of the wirblewind if you feel like it.

[GiveWarAchance]

.

[JagdpanzerIV]

How good are tanks at shooting at airplanes? The crews had to remove their machine guns from the tanks to be able to fire them at airplanes. The German accounts I read said mobile AA were extremely deadly against both infantry and light vehicles and much more than tank guns. As for production #, there's no certain information on how many Whirbelwinds were made but there were more than 86.

As for armor, it used a Panzer 4 so same armor as panzer 4.just with a lighter turret.

The stats on mobile AA in the game are the equivalent of a shopping cart in a grocery store.

Tanks did not shoot air craft down, i was talking vs infantry. The Wirblewind production stopped because it was not as effective as the 37mm.

''As for armor, it used a Panzer 4 so same armor as panzer 4.just with a lighter turret''
If you have a bazooka in your hands, are you gonna aim at the thicker body armor, or the thin gun shield? 10mm of armor, almost no protection whatsoever.

Sure a quad gun is deadly vs infantry, if they run in front of you. If they are hidden in a trench, how effective is that? If they are hidden in a stone building, how effective? I'd rather have a 75mm gun at my disposal.

wiki says ''Between 87 and 105 Wirbelwinds were produced during the war'' so, not much.

[dalfrede]

Amulet has a mod which makes mobile AA into multipurpose range=1 arty.

It requires additional unit images and modify a number of files.

Go to the Scenario section for more details.
If you are a computer geek it is worth the effort,
otherwise stay away, your screams will annoy others.

[GiveWarAchance]

Amulet has a mod which makes mobile AA into multipurpose range=1 arty.

It requires additional unit images and modify a number of files.

Go to the Scenario section for more details.
If you are a computer geek it is worth the effort,
otherwise stay away, your screams will annoy others.

why the hate from you guys?
i was just saying something is obviously unrealistic in the game
I guess the panzercorp forum is a fuck off if you don't agree with us group

[JaM2013]

regarding thin armor - sometimes it was actually better against AP... it was so thin, projectile flew through without activating its explosive filler.. so if it didnt hit something important, it did no damage... it was one of main reasons why tank gunners usually used HE against halftracks or thin armored vehicles... their penetration was enough to get through, but they did a lot of damage afterwards.

[McGuba]

Amulet has a mod which makes mobile AA into multipurpose range=1 arty.

It requires additional unit images and modify a number of files.

Go to the Scenario section for more details.
If you are a computer geek it is worth the effort,
otherwise stay away, your screams will annoy others.

why the hate from you guys?
i was just saying something is obviously unrealistic in the game
I guess the panzercorp forum is a fuck off if you don't agree with us group

I have been here for some years now, and I can assure you there is no hate here. The only anti-social person so far was banned for good.

Your initial proposition is right, mobile AA guns and light AA guns in general should be better against ground targets as they were indeed used quite often by the Germans with telling effect in such a role. But JagpanzerIV is also right, a medium tank with 2-3 machine guns and a 75 mm gun which can fire high explosive shells should be much more effective in most cases. But it does not mean that those AA guns could not be improved a bit. First, they should be multipurpose, just like the '88 mm FlaK. Then, they could get a little boost to their stats. Not a lot, just a bit. That would do the job in my view, but the game developers will not change the unit stats so the only solution is to edit the values by yourself or find and use a modded equipment file. And there is no need for hate talk here at all.

[dalfrede]

It is not hate. it is capitalism vs socialism.


“something doesn’t work the way I would like it to, somebody should fix it.”

Well someone did fix it. It just takes a bit of work to make it work for you.

Nico has an upgrade project where he has updated the equipment file, scenarios, and campaigns. It to do just replace the specific files and you are done. Nico has done all the hard work and avoided having hand hold the people who uses his upgrades. The changes to his equipment file use icons present in the official release.


Amulet [and others] have taken a different tack. New units, new icons.

This requires
Adding the new icon to Graphics/Units/
Adding a big unit icon to UI/bigunits/
Editing the efx.pzdat file.
Editing the equipment.pzeqp

The efx.pzdat file is not as robust as equipment.pzeqp . I edited efx file with OpenOffice/Calc . It added tabs at the end of lines, which caused problems.

I played US Corps with stealth M10_aty, it had combat noise, but no move noise. Why? Who knows, I lived with it.

I now use TextEdit, copy a working line and edit only the name in the first column.
I use a Mac; TextEdit => WordPad

People who play computer games range from “plug n play” to hacker.

Hackers won’t pay any attention to anything I say,

The scream comment was just a snarky way pointing out that work was involved.

Note: One does not need to add a new icon, one can use the old icon and look at the unit info box in the UI sidebar to determine the units mode.




Socialism?
Bernie Sanders [an American Senator] demands McDonald’s pay it’s workers $15/hr.
Does Bernie [who owns three houses] buy a franchise and pay his McD employees $15/hr, no he doesn’t.
Sorry for taking it out on you.

[McGuba]

Well, I must admit that I did not think about the possible psychological/cultural aspect of the problem. A player just reported something that he found unrealistic at the game's forum. We do not know his computer skills, and as you pointed out correctly, this can range from very basic to very high. In either case it makes sense to ask for help from those who know the game better. What we know for sure, is that the developers of PzC will not make such changes, so it is up to the player to do so. For this the tools are given: an easy to edit equipment file, mods made by others, etc.

Even then, some people just do not like to fiddle with the games they payed with their money, they just expect them to work as they should. We have to respect their point, too, and it has nothing to do with the clash of ideologies.

The efx.pzdat file is not as robust as equipment.pzeqp . I edited efx file with OpenOffice/Calc . It added tabs at the end of lines, which caused problems.

I played US Corps with stealth M10_aty, it had combat noise, but no move noise. Why? Who knows, I lived with it.

The reason why the M10_aty has no movement sound in your modded file is precisely the tabs. You need to count how many tabs there are between the entries and you need to place the entry for the movement sound file at the precisely correct place otherwise it will not work. There should be 3 places for the entry for the attack sounds and after these the movement entries should start at the 4th tab. Just count how it is with another unit which works correctly, and you will see what I mean.

[dalfrede]

McGuba

Actually it is worse. Opened offending file in OpenOffice/Text ; set View => non Printing Character

Find extra tabs, remove, save , still did not work, counted tabs, still did not work.

A corrupted text file??

Note on the Mac , if you save a file with a program, the Mac remembers, may be part of the problem.
Sidebar:
Save As => text => Character set ?
Arabic ? no
Chinese ? no
Unicode yes!

Unicode-7 ?
Unicode-8 ?
Unicode-16 ?

Hidden formating, non printing characters; The obvious solution VI Editor!
1) Learn VI
2) Use VI enough to remember
There went 99.99% of the population. A solution for the 0.01%, perfect!

Actual solution, drop file in trash, get new clean copy, open in TextEdit. copy and paste required line[s], edit only the item[s] that needs to be edited, success.

Similar problem with campaign file, similar solution.

I suspect the equip file was expected to be edited, so when PzC reads it handles the data better.

Note 2:
I play the PC version of PzC on my Mac, I was not impressed by the Mac Beta.
I played OpenPanzer on my Mac Air and AC on my $300 Windows laptop. I decided I liked the Mac Air better, and worked on getting AC to work on my Mac. It took me a week to figure out how to do it in 5 minutes. I think it was worth it. Most people won't.

If I tell someone to “do it, its easy”, I do not want to come back to hear the gnashing of teeth and the rending of garments. I tell them its doable, but takes some work, and let them decide what to do.



GiveWarAchance

Chill out.

The world is filled with a**h*les get used to it.

Learn not to react.

I an an engineer, if I find a problem, I fix it or ignore it, if someone comes to me with a problem I will tell them how to fix it.
Or just ignore them.


To conclude with a little off topic Dwight Yoakam

. . .
Okay we both have the tendency to overreact
So I can't really tell you who's at fault
But there were certain third parties, well her sister for one
Who helped bring our reconciling to a drop-dead halt
You'll be sorry you asked me . . .

Sorry You Asked? lyrics © The Bicycle Music Company

[TSPC37730]

I'd like to see more AA units be switchable to a ground attack mode. Perhaps that will be included in PC2.

[Tagaziel]

I'd like to see more AA units be switchable to a ground attack mode. Perhaps that will be included in PC2.

It would also be historically accurate, though more for the Allies. Air superiority meant the AA weapons either rusted or got used against soft targets.

Ah, Men of War comes to mind...