Surfaced Submarines (v3.4.0)

[Horst]

Surfaced submarines currently can’t be detected even when they attack with their deck guns. Even aircrafts, recon or not, flying above them can’t detect them while surfaced. Only ground units or ships moving next to them can do that. Aircrafts should be able to battle the surfaced subs without help of allied ships nearby.
What should also be changed that radar can detect surfaced subs. It doesn't need to be at full range; at half range would be fine too.

[Horst]

The sub's battery recharge-time should also be somewhat faster. Currently, it's recharging at same turn-speed like it is drained while submerged. Something twice as fast if the submarine isn’t moving in that turn could work fine – a similar mechanic like the ground unit reinforcement. The longer dive-time of subs like the German Type XXI is rather pointless during engagements if it takes something like 5 turns to fully recharge while being endangered by surface vessels. Submarines rather behave like commando units on the ground then while usually being forced to be surfaced most of the time.

[Ichthyic]

agreed. I really do not like the mechanics for subs in this game.

-every time I fire a torpedo, my sub surfaces the next turn inexplicably.
-torpedoes do TERRIBLE damage. I had to change it so that they can fire every turn just to compete with a basic destroyer.
-sometimes my subs surface for no reason I can tell, and it's NOT because they moved "too far"

a kriegsmarine with such terrible subs should not exist.

oh, and while submarine torpedoes do terrible damage? a friggen torpedo dropped from an old biplane swordfish (SMALLER THAN A UBOAT TORPEDO!!!!) did THREE strength damage to my heavy cruiser... and by "an" i literally mean a SINGLE swordfish plane. not a stack of ten, just one plane.

something horribly wrong with this entire Kriegsmarine campaign frankly. the 4th mission has a total of 10 naval points to spend, and you're supposed to sink half a dozen merchant vessels, two battleships, and an aircraft carrier with that, meanwhile the enemy outnumbers you 10 to 1, and they have torpedo bombers running around everywhere. I'm having to edit the stats of practically everything just to make it even a challenge, let alone near impossible. really really poorly designed.

*sigh*

[Erik2]

A sub needs to surface after 3 turns (I believe) to recharge batteries.
The 'long movement' effect was removed at some point.
Other units may only spot a surfaced sub if they are next it. So it usually pays to launch torpedoes at a 2-hex distance from an enemy ship/air units.

I have no hard evidence, but it seems that sub-attacks are now more pwerful than what they used to be. There was a lot of discussions on this earlier.
While I'd still like more damage to be dealt in a torpedo attack (it should be able to sink a transport in one shot), I think subs work much better now than in the old days.

[Ichthyic]

see my edited post.

there are still huge issues.

sub torpedoes from a full stack of type IX does one damage or less. a torpedo from a *single* fairy swordfish does 3 damage!

I'm having to edit this game like made to make things make even the slightest bit of sense.

to test something, I changed the torpedo defense of the ship being attacked to 50.

no difference at all. 1 swordfish still did 3 damage to stack of 8 heavy cruiser.

the enemy damage is pre-programmed. has to be. how can you defend against that?

I had fighter cover which knocked the swordfish stack from 6 to 1 before the attack run, and upped the defense to 50... still does 3 damage. MORE THAN A FULL BROADSIDE FROM A BATTLESHIP.

ridiculous.

whoever tested this campaign... didn't.

[Ichthyic]

A sub needs to surface after 3 turns (I believe) to recharge batteries.

that's only early subs like type VII.

[Ichthyic]

FWIW, I finally figured out how to mod subs so they can stay underwater as long as they want, and can surface and submerge at will:

set fuel to 99 (specific number required) for both surface and submerged versions of the sub.