Testing for shock troops charging without orders

[TimSnoddy]

I have placed a quotation from a friend below regarding the charge
move of shock troops. Basically he is arguing that if shock troops
have a target capable of evading beyond their normal charge distance
but within charge distance + max VMD you can simply opt not to take
the CMT and charge automatically without orders. You couldn't charge
with orders as the target is outside normal charge range. I can see
his argument as the way the rule is written on p58 but I don't think
itis what is intended. Who is right and does the VMD apply if the
target decides not to evade?


"My contention is that shock troops like knights (shock foot have
certain exceptions when facing mounted) do not have to take the CMT if
they WANT to charge without orders. (Against troops that could evade.)

The problem comes with the variable move distance. The rules state an
assumption of charge + max VMD for charge range. If the target DOES
NOT EVADE do you dice for the VMD? The rules state only dice for VMD
when targets evade. So why assume the greater range if that in
practice is not the charge range?

eg. Cav lancers are 7" from single ranked cav. Cav lancers must dice
at this range NOT to charge. Their owner either fails the CMT or wants
them to charge. The single ranked cav stands but is now out of range
by the rules!

Is this correct?"

[MadBanker]

No,
the rules do not read that way.
You must CMT to avoid charging troops within charge range. You cannot opt to charge through your troops.
The charge move distance of 2 MU's more than the Shock troops' normal move distance is taken into account only if their potential charge target (that is if they fail the CMT not to charge) is capable of evading and any of the following may apply (within the distance of normal move + 2MUs): If their move could end even partly in terrain that would disorder or severely disorder them; If they are medium foot starting wholly in uneven, rough or difficult terrain and their move could end even partly in open terrain; if they are foot whose move could contact or be intercepted by mounted; if their move could end in contact with fortifications, elephants or a riverbank (The other circumstances listed in the rulebook have no relevance in your example, so I don't list them here).
The +2 MU is used here only to determine if any of these conditions could apply for the charging shock troops if their target evades (and if so, they don't need to test and won't charge).

eg. Cav lancers are 7" from single ranked cav. Cav lancers must dice
at this range NOT to charge. Their owner either fails the CMT or wants
them to charge. The single ranked cav stands but is now out of range
by the rules!

In this case, the cav do not need to CMT to avoid charging without orders because they cannot charge (the potential target is not within charge range). They might have to test if they were within 5 MUs (see explanation above)

[neilhammond]

I have placed a quotation from a friend below regarding the charge
move of shock troops. Basically he is arguing that if shock troops
have a target capable of evading beyond their normal charge distance
but within charge distance + max VMD you can simply opt not to take
the CMT and charge automatically without orders. You couldn't charge
with orders as the target is outside normal charge range. I can see
his argument as the way the rule is written on p58 but I don't think
itis what is intended. Who is right and does the VMD apply if the
target decides not to evade?

Assuming I've understood the situation:

The test for shock not to charge ONLY applies if a target is in charge reach. This is measured using your normal move distance. However, you don't test if a move + 2MU would put you in a situation where your requirement to charge is cancelled (e.g. lancers contacting elephants, etc). You don't have a choice. Either there is a test, or there isn't (because it's negated by terrain/elephants/etc).

The sequence is you declare a charge, then the opponent decides to evade or stand. Then you test any shock troops in their usual charge reach who are required to test.

If you have, say, shock cavalry with a tempting target 6MUs away you can't declare a charge (or try and take a CMT test) because you would like to charge that unit, even though, theoretically, you could reach it with a VMD dice roll.

If the target doesn't evade, then you don't throw for VMD.

[sagji]

The sequence is you declare a charge, then the opponent decides to evade or stand. Then you test any shock troops in their usual charge reach who are required to test.

No the sequence is

1) You declare all charges you want.
2) You test for shock troups charging without orders, and units that were ordered to charge but are reluctant to do so - such as disordered non-shock, of missile troups.
3) For each BG that is charging - in an order of you choice, you do it's move:
3.1) your opponent declares and moves any intercepting BGs - if a flank, or rear, interception it cancels the charge
3.2) your opponent declares any evading BGs, and tests if fragmented BGs break.
3.3) you declare the direction/path of your charge.
3.4) your opponent moves any evading or routing BGs rolling VMDs.
3.5) if all targets have routed or evaded you may persue them, otherwise
3.6) any new targets in range may evade, or rout
3.7) if there are no targets left in normal range you roll a VMD
3.8) any new targets in range may evade, or rout
3.9) you move the BG.

[GrumblingGrognard]

The sequence is you declare a charge, then the opponent decides to evade or stand. Then you test any shock troops in their usual charge reach who are required to test.

No the sequence is

1) You declare all charges you want.
2) You test for shock troups charging without orders, and units that were ordered to charge but are reluctant to do so - such as disordered non-shock, of missile troups.
3) For each BG that is charging - in an order of you choice, you do it's move:
3.1) your opponent declares and moves any intercepting BGs - if a flank, or rear, interception it cancels the charge
3.2) your opponent declares any evading BGs, and tests if fragmented BGs break.
3.3) you declare the direction/path of your charge.
3.4) your opponent moves any evading or routing BGs rolling VMDs.
3.5) if all targets have routed or evaded you may persue them, otherwise
3.6) any new targets in range may evade, or rout
3.7) if there are no targets left in normal range you roll a VMD
3.8 ) any new targets in range may evade, or rout
3.9) you move the BG.

We have been playing with charge path declaration (3.3 above) moved up the order to directly after charges are announced (3.0)

IMO, it is difficult to declare interceptions and evades until the charge path itself is declared.

GG