Swedes

[DavidT]

My army of choice is the Early 30YW Swedes.

Currently I don't think that the rules represent the attacking nature of the Swedes correctly.

Gustav's tactics were all about attacking quickly and he used his pikemen to protect his musketeers (this was represented in the original rules by classing Swedish Brigades as armoured against fire).

The Swedes advanced quickly towards the enemy and then the musketeers all discharged their pieces in a single valley (a salvo) before the unit charged the enemy. This is represented by the salvo impact category in the rules. Even when on the defensive (such as the Green Brigade at Breitenfeld), the Swedes still held their fire until close range before giving the Imperialists a volley and charging.

As a radical proposal to represent this more accurately, I would give Swedish salvo 0 dice at long range when firing against foot battle groups. However, I would class them as armoured again, as originally. This would stop Swedes hanging back for a firefight (at most they will get 1 dice for their regimental gun) but they should be better protected from enemy fire (being classed as armoured).

Facing mounted, Swedes would fire like any other unit at long range at mounted troops as they would not be advancing quickly to charge the mounted.

This would reflect their unique tactics more effectively.

[Jhykronos]

Gustav's tactics were all about attacking quickly and he used his pikemen to protect his musketeers (this was represented in the original rules by classing Swedish Brigades as armoured against fire).

Actually, from what I gather from the likes of Richard Brzezinski, Pierre Picouet, and Daniel Stabourg, Gustav's tactics were not about "attacking quickly", they were about breaking up the other guy's attack, followed by a devastating counterattack. When forced on the attack themselves (Alte-Veste, Lutzen, Nordlingen), the Swedish Brigades performed admirably, but not remarkably.

And as far as the pikemen go... yes they protected the musketeers, but they were also the principal melee and shock arm of the formation... which is why Gustav tried to maintain such a high ratio of them. It really isn't until the later 30YW and ECW, when battles become much more fluid, cavalry-driven affairs, and the role of foot in general became more static, that the role of the pikes became much more limited.

As a radical proposal to represent this more accurately, I would give Swedish salvo 0 dice at long range when firing against foot battle groups. However, I would class them as armoured again, as originally. This would stop Swedes hanging back for a firefight (at most they will get 1 dice for their regimental gun) but they should be better protected from enemy fire (being classed as armoured).

I'm actually starting to lean the other way... maybe the original rules as written have it right. If Tilly's regiments had decided to hang back at extreme musket range and catch cannister from the battalion guns instead of trying to get stuck in, why wouldn't the Swedes have obliged them?

Plus, it would have the bonus of actually justifying the point penalty the brigades pay.

[DavidT]

Very interesting.
I'm glad someone took the time to reply.
Thanks

[Jhykronos]

Very interesting.
I'm glad someone took the time to reply.
Thanks

Quite welcome.

At least there is a general consensus that the Swedish Brigade -should- be good for something. Could you imagine what would happen if we had to deal with the same level analysis that the Tercios used to get (and still do, to a great extent)? I could just see it now:

"The Swedish Brigade was an odd anti-cavalry formation established by Gustavus Adolphus, and abandoned soon after his death due to it's many shortcomings. Pikes were deployed far too shallow to be effective in anything more than a defensive role, and worse, were spread into three bodies instead of concentrated for maximum effect. Worse, the deployment of the shot arm was criminally wasteful, with only four out of nine musketeers able to fire forward,"