Palmyran list

[Irmin]

Narrowed my choice down to 4 armies, Lydian, Attilid, Ptolemaic (All have lists on here for discussion) and Palmyran, my list looks like this

3 TC
3 BGs of of 4 Ct, Hvy Arm, Sup, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen
2 BGs of 4 LH, Unp, Ave, Bow
2 BGs of 4 LH, Unp, Ave, Drilled, Bow, Light Spear
1 BG of 6 LF, Unp, Ave, Undrilled, Bow
2 Bgs of 6 HF, Arm, Sup, Drilled, Impact foot, Skilled Sword
2 Bgs of 6 MF, Arm, Ave, Drilled, Light Spear, Swordsmen

or

4 TC
3 BGs of of 4 Ct, Hvy Arm, Sup, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen
2 BGs of 4 LH, Unp, Ave, Bow
2 BGs of 4 LH, Unp, Ave, Drilled, Bow, Light Spear
1 BG of 6 LF, Unp, Ave, Undrilled, Bow
1 Bgs of 6 HF, Arm, Sup, Drilled, Impact foot, Skilled Sword
1 Bg of 6 HF, Arm, Ave, Drilled, Impact foot, Swordsmen
2 Bgs of 6 MF, Arm, Ave, Drilled, Light Spear, Swordsmen

[philqw78]

I like the Palmyran list. I do, though, think you have to decide what you want to do with it. It also depends if the army could be facing is any army or one from the same time period and area.

My own personal thoughts are that the Romans only use is to contest rough terrain. Otherwise they take away points from the catphracts. To do this you only need 1 BG of 4 Average Legio, and 2 BG of however many Auxilia (4-8). The legio then give the morale support bonus if behind the centre of the Aux and a bit of an ememrgency back up, but only Av, Prot for cost. The Aux being armoured can then easily hold any piece of terrain. The LH with light spear is a bit of a waste if you don't need it, only 4 points per BG but still. As you do not want your LH in combat in an open competition as most other LH will have Swordsmen capability. So just use your LH to shoot and drag other people forward and out of position.

Max the cataphracts! Some can be undrilled, saving points, but then you should have them in bigger BGs.

[babyshark]

I played Palmyrans in the Open at Historicon and had a lot of fun with them. I did not use the Romans because I could not figure a list that pleased me. One thing I recommend based on my experience is to run at least one BG of the the Cats as a 6. More if possible. They just do not have much staying power as a 4.

The army underperformed, but I think that was due more to operator error than any fundamental flaw in the army. My Lh shot up Kn and lancer Cv, but for some reason could make no impression on opposing Lh. Damn it!

Lots of fun, and I will likely run them again.

Marc

[Irmin]

Something along the lines of this then:

4 TC
4 BGs of of 4 Ct, Hvy Arm, Sup, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen
5 BGs of 4 LH, Unp, Ave, Bow
1 BG of 6 LF, Unp, Ave, Undrilled, Bow
1 Bg of 4 HF, Arm, Ave, Drilled, Impact foot, Swordsmen
2 Bgs of 6 MF, Arm, Ave, Drilled, Light Spear, Swordsmen

[babyshark]

Something along the lines of this then:

4 TC
4 BGs of of 4 Ct, Hvy Arm, Sup, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen
5 BGs of 4 LH, Unp, Ave, Bow
1 BG of 6 LF, Unp, Ave, Undrilled, Bow
1 Bg of 4 HF, Arm, Ave, Drilled, Impact foot, Swordsmen
2 Bgs of 6 MF, Arm, Ave, Drilled, Light Spear, Swordsmen

Were I you I would shift the 4 BGs of 4 Cats to 2x6 and 1x4. The sixes make a lot of difference.

Marc

[philqw78]

I like the new list far better. With my style of play though I would drop the Romans completely for more cats, but thats a personal preference.
Your Romans can secure any peice of terrain you desire. There are few better MF; Sword and Buckler men and Dailami, but you will outnumber them and Thracians with Hvy Wpn who will outnumber you, So think about terrain size so some will stick out for you cats to pick off. Most armies with thracians don't get enough without an Ally. (unlikely to meet a Thracian Army in open comp IMO tho. But Thracians are a different beast and could be a surprise with lots of LH an IC and lots of MF to fill the terrain they place).
As for the 2x6 + 1x4, or 4x4. It depends on how good you are at, or how much use you are going to make of, manouvre. I would prefer 4x4 but keep them together. If there is then a gap or an emergency a 4 can split off. Just don't reinforce failure, it will only get worse. If you think the cats are going to be badly shot at (and you can put some LH to take the shots instead either side) or at a disadvantage at impact go to column, easier with 4's. If you go for undrilled cats I think 6's are better 'cos they aint going to do a lot of clever manouvre.

phil

[Irmin]

Trying to get more Cats is it worth sacrificing a TC?

3 TC
3 BGs of of 4 Ct, Hvy Arm, Sup, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen
2 BGs of of 4 Ct, Hvy Arm, Sup, Undrilled, Lancers, Swordsmen
4 BGs of 4 LH, Unp, Ave, Bow
1 BGs of 4 LH, Unp, Ave, Bow, Lt Spear
1 BG of 6 LF, Unp, Ave, Undrilled, Bow
1 Bg of 4 HF, Arm, Ave, Drilled, Impact foot, Swordsmen
2 Bgs of 6 MF, Arm, Ave, Drilled, Light Spear, Swordsmen

or the non-Roman route

3 TC
4 BGs of of 4 Ct, Hvy Arm, Sup, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen
2 BGs of of 4 Ct, Hvy Arm, Sup, Undrilled, Lancers, Swordsmen
4 BGs of 4 LH, Unp, Ave, Bow
2 BGs of 4 LH, Unp, Ave, Bow, Lt Spear
1 BG of 6 LF, Unp, Ave, Undrilled, Bow

both come out to 799pts

EDIT: plus the option to remove 1 BG of LH, Unp, Ave, Bow, Lt Spear and have a 4th TC.

[philqw78]

I think you would be better losing one of the LH BG's than a general. Gets you to a nice 12 BG as well. Means you can ambush and may actually have an ambush or flank march, instead of it being a transparent waste of time.

[rbodleyscott]

I think you would be better losing one of the LH BG's than a general. Gets you to a nice 12 BG as well. Means you can ambush and may actually have an ambush or flank march, instead of it being a transparent waste of time.

Maybe I am being thick, but why does it make a difference? Either way the last batch would be 3 BGs. (Unless you only have one BG in ambush/flank march in which case they can be kept guessing with 12 BG - but how likely is that to be useful?)

[philqw78]

In effect with 12 BG you can make it look like 11 BG, with 11 BG you can make it look like 12. So you can place an ambush and it may or may not be there. Since deployment for 11, or 12 with an ambush is the same. With 13 Bg an ambush can never be a surprise

Unless your opponent insists on counting points.

[philqw78]

- but how likely is that to be useful?)

As useful as 1 more LH BG and one less general?

[Irmin]

- but how likely is that to be useful?)

As useful as 1 more LH BG and one less general?

But which is more useful, the LH or the TC??

[philqw78]

I would say the TC

[LambertSimnel]

Would spending 40 points on 4 Protected Superior lanciarii to give rear support to some of your cataphracts be over-egging the pudding?

[Irmin]

Would spending 40 points on 4 Protected Superior lanciarii to give rear support to some of your cataphracts be over-egging the pudding?

In which list and replacing what?

[sergiomonteleone]

Hi,
I'm playing a lot with Palmyran because in ten days I will have a tournament (so I will post to you my army list after the tournament .................... on the forum there a lot of italian spies ).

Considering I dont' know if the tournament is open and the tournament in Italy will be themed, for the moment my advices are:
- not to use Romans
- using much possible drilled CT's
- using 4 TC's.

Sergio

[Irmin]

Hi,
I'm playing a lot with Palmyran because in ten days I will have a tournament (so I will post to you my army list after the tournament .................... on the forum there a lot of italian spies ).

Considering I dont' know if the tournament is open and the tournament in Italy will be themed, for the moment my advices are:
- not to use Romans
- using much possible drilled CT's
- using 4 TC's.

Sergio

That'd be much appreciated (if you want to you could PM it to me seeing as I only play at club level and won't be heading to any tournaments.)

[DaiSho]

Narrowed my choice down to 4 armies, Lydian, Attilid, Ptolemaic (All have lists on here for discussion) and Palmyran, my list looks like this

3 TC
3 BGs of of 4 Ct, Hvy Arm, Sup, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen
2 BGs of 4 LH, Unp, Ave, Bow
2 BGs of 4 LH, Unp, Ave, Drilled, Bow, Light Spear
1 BG of 6 LF, Unp, Ave, Undrilled, Bow
2 Bgs of 6 HF, Arm, Sup, Drilled, Impact foot, Skilled Sword
2 Bgs of 6 MF, Arm, Ave, Drilled, Light Spear, Swordsmen

or

4 TC
3 BGs of of 4 Ct, Hvy Arm, Sup, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen
2 BGs of 4 LH, Unp, Ave, Bow
2 BGs of 4 LH, Unp, Ave, Drilled, Bow, Light Spear
1 BG of 6 LF, Unp, Ave, Undrilled, Bow
1 Bgs of 6 HF, Arm, Sup, Drilled, Impact foot, Skilled Sword
1 Bg of 6 HF, Arm, Ave, Drilled, Impact foot, Swordsmen
2 Bgs of 6 MF, Arm, Ave, Drilled, Light Spear, Swordsmen

Just my thoughts (as I'm looking at the Palmyran list myself) is that the Romans (if run) should be in BG's of 4.

3 x BG's of 4 is vastly superior in so many different ways than 2 x BG's of 6.
This gives you an extra BG, and thus an extra break point.
This gives you more flexibility in moving troops around.
This gives you more manouverability in that a BG of 4 wheels much quicker than a BG of 6.

In essence, there is no real advantage (to my way of thinking) of a BG of 6 over a BG of 4.

They are armoured, so they don't usually have to worry too much about shooting, and in the Palmyran army you can pretty much out-shoot anything but a shooting army.

Just my thoughts.

Ian

[DaiSho]

for the moment my advices are:
- not to use Romans
- using much possible drilled CT's
- using 4 TC's.

Sergio, this sounds a lot like disinformation to me

[recharge]

for the moment my advices are:
- not to use Romans
- using much possible drilled CT's
- using 4 TC's.

Sergio, this sounds a lot like disinformation to me

I agree

The last time I ran mine at a tournament; minimum CT's, 4 Bg's of Romans and the rest LH/LF.
Finished 3rd.

For me the CT's are a big waste. Every time, the die wimpering. The only use was rear support for the Romans. A lot of points for that.

My $.02

John