Interception Charge

[jmmorillas]

In our last Tournament in Granada, we have a doubt about an Interception Charge.

This pic ilustrated the situation:




I have a Cavalry BG facing Fragmented Elephants, and a BG of LH to block possible interception for the pikemen BG.

I declare charge on Elephants BG, and my rival declare Interception Charge.

As I understand, Pikemen BG cannot declare interception because their path is obstructed by my LH. So we ask for the umpire to solve.

Umpire understand that pikemen BG stops on Light horse BG and then Step forward up to the 2 MU interception zone, so they intercept my Cavalry BG, and then my Cavalry BG Step forward too in orther to contact Elephants BG.

What do you think about?

[babyshark]

We had a similar issue arise at Historicon thisd past weekend, with the underlying question being "can interceptors step forward." The circumstances were almost exactly as you described. After looking through the rules I decided that they could not step forward. I will be interested to see what response we get from the authors on this one.

Marc

[rogerg]

The intercept is not possible. Interceptors do not step forward. If for no other reason, stepping forward involves moving those bases stepping forward into contact and interceptors (except from a flank) do not contact the chargers, they just sit in the path waiting to be contacted.

[hammy]

The key is that an interception charge is not the same as a charge. You can't charge through either enemy or friendly troops to make an interception. In this situation the pike would be able to charge in their phase but not make an interception.

If of course the elephants were within the base depth of the cavalry from the front of the pike then the cavalry would have to step forwards into the pike and that would also cancel any chance of interception.

[madcam2us]

What about a situation where a BG (AAAA)approximately 2 inches away from an opposing BG (2222)declares its charge.



1111



AAAA

2222

BG 1 is a horse unit with a 4 inch ZOI and is within the ZOI and declares its interception charge. The way we read the rules, BG AAAA's charge is negated due to being charged in the Flank/Rear and has to take it literally up the bum even though it is closer to BG 2222, correct?

Madcam.

[hammy]

What about a situation where a BG (AAAA)approximately 2 inches away from an opposing BG (2222)declares its charge.



1111



AAAA

2222

BG 1 is a horse unit with a 4 inch ZOI and is within the ZOI and declares its interception charge. The way we read the rules, BG AAAA's charge is negated due to being charged in the Flank/Rear and has to take it literally up the bum even though it is closer to BG 2222, correct?

Madcam.

Yes,

This is one of the few areas of the FoG rules where really odd things can happen. The worst is a HF BG making a rear intercept on a LH BG that is 2 MU from the infantry and charging a target 9 MU away. Normally the simple solution is not to charge but on occasion shock troops can get their knickers in a twist over this one.

[rogerg]

Some of us do not think of this as odd. Where troops have a threat to their rear, it seems perfectly reasonable that they respond to that as a priority. I do not think the argument that cavalry will out run the troops behind is very strong. This is not an exercise in applied mathematics about speed and distance, it is a question of morale. The area behind a body of troops is where they expect to retire to in safety if things go wrong. The threat of being surrounded or taken by an attack from the rear is usually sufficient to pull troops back to a safer position. FoG simulates this very well by making the punishment for not doing so quite severe.

[hammy]

I also have no problem with the rules as they stand for the reasons given but I know of a number of players who on first encoutering this in a game have a bit of a what the f*ck moment.

Once you know it can happen you plan to make sure it doesn't. It is having this happen unexpectedly that is a bit like the DBM weasel move syndrome.

[IanB3406]

What can be even more amusing is have several battle groups of shock troops on both sides all lined up to counter charge each other in the flank waiting for whoever fails their test to charge first......... I had legionaires trying not to charge to avoid Cats in their flank. Unfort for the Cats the legions passed, but on their turn they couldn't charge without being hit in the flank by another battlegroup and failed to pass their test not to charge.....

[hammy]

What can be even more amusing is have several battle groups of shock troops on both sides all lined up to counter charge each other in the flank waiting for whoever fails their test to charge first......... I had legionaires trying not to charge to avoid Cats in their flank. Unfort for the Cats the legions passed, but on their turn they couldn't charge without being hit in the flank by another battlegroup and failed to pass their test not to charge.....

I had one in I think the game against Neil Hammond in Helsinki where something like 5 BGs were in possition to charge each other in the flank but none of them other than the last in the chain dared do so.

[nikgaukroger]

I also have no problem with the rules as they stand for the reasons given but I know of a number of players who on first encoutering this in a game have a bit of a what the f*ck moment.

Once you know it can happen you plan to make sure it doesn't. It is having this happen unexpectedly that is a bit like the DBM weasel move syndrome.

The fact the rules are quite clear on this means I have less sympathy than I might otherwise have on this one

IMO the first place to start with a new set of rules is the movement/manoeuvre rules (which in FoG will include the charges bits) - unfortunately most gamers start with the combat sections

[jre]

What can be even more amusing is have several battle groups of shock troops on both sides all lined up to counter charge each other in the flank waiting for whoever fails their test to charge first......... I had legionaires trying not to charge to avoid Cats in their flank. Unfort for the Cats the legions passed, but on their turn they couldn't charge without being hit in the flank by another battlegroup and failed to pass their test not to charge.....

Remember that shock foot that can be charged on the flank or who would contact mounted do not need to check for spontaneous charges. Mounted however are reckless...

José

[hammy]

What can be even more amusing is have several battle groups of shock troops on both sides all lined up to counter charge each other in the flank waiting for whoever fails their test to charge first......... I had legionaires trying not to charge to avoid Cats in their flank. Unfort for the Cats the legions passed, but on their turn they couldn't charge without being hit in the flank by another battlegroup and failed to pass their test not to charge.....

Remember that shock foot that can be charged on the flank or who would contact mounted do not need to check for spontaneous charges. Mounted however are reckless...

José

Shock foot still have to test if enemy foot can intercept them in the flank. They only get to avoid the problem if the interception is from mounted.