Why haven't I played Pike and Shot much?

[stockwellpete]

I bought this when it came out and have got the campaign version too but I have hardly played it at all. I was excited when it came out too. I have been trying to think why and the only thing I can come up with is that it lacks a certain "mud and sweat" factor. The units seem to dash about the map super efficiently and they all appear in straight pristine rows as if they are robots. It just seems to lack something visually for me. I know this is highly subjective but I always find myself returning to FOG PC for a game. Anyone else understand what I'm wittering on about?

[Royal Fusilier]

Try playing an email game if you haven't already. I think you will find that your neat and orderly lines will quickly become very disordered and the battle quite chaotic. I can't imagine playing P&S in single-player but I can't imagine not playing P&S in email. It is by far the most enjoyment I have ever gotten with an email game. Maybe the units could be made to look a bit more ragged as they take damage and losses instead of just their flag but I really don't require that.

[stockwellpete]

Try playing an email game if you haven't already. I think you will find that your net and orderly lines will quickly become very disordered and the battle quite chaotic. I can't imagine playing P&S in single-player but I can't imagine not playing P&S in email. It is by far the most enjoyment I have ever gotten with an email game. Maybe the units could be made to look a bit more ragged as they take damage and losses instead of just their flag but I really don't require that.

Oh yes, I get my army into a right mess very quickly even against the AI because I haven't played much. What I am trying to get at though is more an "atmosphere" thing. It all seems a bit too pristine. I want it to be a bit grubbier, I think.

[TheGrayMouser]

I bought this when it came out and have got the campaign version too but I have hardly played it at all. I was excited when it came out too. I have been trying to think why and the only thing I can come up with is that it lacks a certain "mud and sweat" factor. The units seem to dash about the map super efficiently and they all appear in straight pristine rows as if they are robots. It just seems to lack something visually for me. I know this is highly subjective but I always find myself returning to FOG PC for a game. Anyone else understand what I'm wittering on about?

I think I get what your saying, the graphics ( more the terrain than the units) have a "bubbly" happy look to them. Less so on the Northern Europe maps, and even less so on the snow maps ( with snowing graphics)

Grimmer darker hues might give it more of a TYW blighted feel

On a side note, you can play top down too which is a nice change sometime, cheers man!

[Royal Fusilier]

Try playing an email game if you haven't already. I think you will find that your net and orderly lines will quickly become very disordered and the battle quite chaotic. I can't imagine playing P&S in single-player but I can't imagine not playing P&S in email. It is by far the most enjoyment I have ever gotten with an email game. Maybe the units could be made to look a bit more ragged as they take damage and losses instead of just their flag but I really don't require that.

Oh yes, I get my army into a right mess very quickly even against the AI because I haven't played much. What I am trying to get at though is more an "atmosphere" thing. It all seems a bit too pristine. I want it to be a bit grubbier, I think.

Yeah I can see that. As TheGrayMouser said maybe the terrain color platelete is a bit too bright and clean. I am normally OCD on most things but this I can look past.

[jomni]

There's a somewhat gritty terrain mod.
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 22&t=72539

[stockwellpete]

There's a somewhat gritty terrain mod.
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 22&t=72539

Yes, they look really good but it looks a bit complicated to use (everything is complicated for me!). And I am not sure if it is just for scenarios or whether it also can be used in skirmish mode? For the converting scenario procedure it says, "5. All tiles are now converted; however the vanilla objects have to be manually replaced by the modded ones. - Be warned, this can be a lot of work!" What are vanilla objects? What does it mean? At the moment I am thinking ice-creams.

[Adebar]

What are vanilla objects? What does it mean? At the moment I am thinking ice-creams.

"Vanilla objects" are all unmodded objects on the map apart from the terrain tiles, like buildings and vegetation. - In fact, the mod is just for creating new scenarios and converting vanilla ones, it cannot be implemented into skirmish mode etc. The converting process is really a lot of work and time consuming, and it needs experience with the editor.

I experimented with a "grubbier" looking version of the terrain files (meaning a more realistic look, more detailed textures, more contrast) but the problem is that this downgrades the visibility of the units too much.

[stockwellpete]

OK, thank you, Adebar.

[stockwellpete]

I am just starting to play some multi-player games. Can anyone suggest to me some fairly even match-ups please? I don't know the period much at all. Thanks.

[Pixel]

Early Russians versus Early Polish (the two late 15th - early 16th century Age of Machiavelli lists) are fun if you want to pit two relatively evenly matched cavalry based armies against each other. Both are very mobile armies. The Russian Boyars are fun as they have bows and can harass but also have the swordsman melee POA so their charge is pretty decent. Not quite as good as some of the Polish lancers though.

The later lists end up adding more conventional Pike and Shot as well as pistol armed cavalry. The arquebus also transitions to musketeers in one of the Tercio to Salvo lists and the shooting ability of the Russian Streltsy and the Polish Haiduks goes up when this happens.

[stockwellpete]

Thank you, Pixel.

[stockwellpete]

Can anyone tell me whether the development of Pike and Shot has finished now please? I am playing with someone and we were just wondering whether the command and control/leader system of Sengoku Jidai might be included (to some degree) in this game. I know there has been quite a bit of discussion about leaders in the past. What was decided in the end? Thanks.

[rbodleyscott]

Can anyone tell me whether the development of Pike and Shot has finished now please? I am playing with someone and we were just wondering whether the command and control/leader system of Sengoku Jidai might be included (to some degree) in this game. I know there has been quite a bit of discussion about leaders in the past. What was decided in the end? Thanks.

This is something we would like to add at some point, but at the moment other projects are absorbing all the available development time. FOG2 will contain a command system similar to that in Sengoku Jidai.

[stockwellpete]

This is something we would like to add at some point, but at the moment other projects are absorbing all the available development time. FOG2 will contain a command system similar to that in Sengoku Jidai.

OK Richard, thanks for that. It is good to know that there could be further developments in future.

I hope you don't mind me asking - will FOG2 be hex-based or square-based please? I am just wondering about the scenarios that I did for FOG. Will they be convertible or will they have to be done again in the new format? Presumably, if they will all will have to be done in the new format then it would make sense for me to start learning how to use the editor in Sengoku?

[rbodleyscott]

This is something we would like to add at some point, but at the moment other projects are absorbing all the available development time. FOG2 will contain a command system similar to that in Sengoku Jidai.

OK Richard, thanks for that. It is good to know that there could be further developments in future.

I hope you don't mind me asking - will FOG2 be hex-based or square-based please? I am just wondering about the scenarios that I did for FOG. Will they be convertible or will they have to be done again in the new format? Presumably, if they will all will have to be done in the new format then it would make sense for me to start learning how to use the editor in Sengoku?

There will not be any data continuity between FOG and FOG2 in the sense you mean. The rules will be similar, but the data structures are entirely different. And it will be square based.

[stockwellpete]

There will not be any data continuity between FOG and FOG2 in the sense you mean. The rules will be similar, but the data structures are entirely different. And it will be square based.

Ok thanks, I thought that might be the case.

[rbodleyscott]

There will not be any data continuity between FOG and FOG2 in the sense you mean. The rules will be similar, but the data structures are entirely different. And it will be square based.

Ok thanks, I thought that might be the case.

The editor will be substantially similar to the one in Sengoku Jidai.

[champagne]

The game models wargaming with miniatures on a table top, so, I can understand why everything isn't muddy. If we could watch most of the real battles in real life, I suspect that not only would everything be covered in mud, but, there would also be so much smoke that we could only see portions field and units at any one time. Yikes. I think I like it better the way the game is now!

[stockwellpete]

The game models wargaming with miniatures on a table top, so, I can understand why everything isn't muddy. If we could watch most of the real battles in real life, I suspect that not only would everything be covered in mud, but, there would also be so much smoke that we could only see portions field and units at any one time. Yikes. I think I like it better the way the game is now!

I am starting to recover from my "mud obsession" now and I am enjoying the game very much. I always compare everything with FOG PC and P+S is a major improvement on it. I particularly like the way historical match-ups are at the centre of the game and that it is possible to stipulate your opponent's army in your challenges so that you get the match-ups you are really interested in. I also like the way melees are dealt with compared to FOG. In P+S there are not the wild swings, or bizarre outcomes, that are quite regular in FOG; melee-ing is much more attritional and this makes the game much more realistic, in my view. And Sengoku Jidai takes this system one big step further on with a "command and control" system that was sorely lacking in FOG. I haven't really got any gripes now . . . although I suppose the horse units could throw up clods of mud instead of dust from time to time.